D82 wrote:JeanGreyForever wrote:Wow, I knew you liked Tangled but I never knew it was your absolute fav from this era! That certainly explains why you spoke up for its defense the other day. I'm not at all a fan, as evident by my ranking of it, but I'm glad to see that you proved an ardent defender of one of your favorite films.
Well, it's not only my favorite from this decade, but it's at least in my top 15 Disney classics. It used to be in my top ten, but I probably put it too high at first due to the early excitement. It's also the only movie I've seen three times in theaters, so I immediately fell in love with it. I'll try to explain a bit why I like it so much.
I've always been a fan of the original fairy tale, and was looking forward to the Disney adaptation since I first heard in the early 2000s that they were working on it. I hated the
Shrek-inspired version that was going to be called
Rapunzel Unbraided though. I'm so glad it was cancelled. And, to be honest, I'm also glad we didn't get the more serious one Glen Keane was developing later (though several of the things I like from the final film come from that version). The one we got feels classic Disney to me despite being CGI, and I think they made a great job preserving the most important elements of the fairy tale and finding a way of making them work, despite all the things that didn't make sense in the original source material.
I also love the fairy tale atmosphere, the combination of romance and adventure, and the characters; especially Rapunzel and Flynn. I also think they have great chemistry together. Mother Gothel in my opinion is a great villain, like I said in another thread. I like the sidekicks too, but I think there are stronger ones in other revival movies, like for instance, Olaf from
Frozen. I really like the music as well, even though I agree it's not Menken's best work. Apart from all that, I guess part of why I like
Tangled so much is because I identify with the main character a lot due to my own personal life experiences. Of course, I've never been locked in a tower, but there are things from my past that make me especially relate to her. Though, it can't be only that; otherwise films with similar themes like
Hunchback or
Coco would also be part of my top favorites and that's not the case.
By the way, regarding what I said the other day, I wanted to clarify that if I haven't talked much about the film in the forum as I saw it wasn't very popular here, that's entirely my fault. I wasn't blaming anyone for saying negative things about it, and I wasn't insinuating that people should stop doing so with this or other movies, by any means. I would never do that. Above all, I like that people can express their views freely and I want to know their real opinions of things. Plus, I think you in particular have solid arguments against the film to support your views,
JeanGreyForever. I even share some of them. But I personally like the good things in the film so much that I can forgive all its flaws.
That's really great that you liked it enough to watch it three times in theaters. The most I've seen a film in cinemas would be twice, in my case, The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe and Incredibles 2. Then again, I've heard of a poster here who watched the live-action Cinderella about 40 or so times in theaters so even three isn't that much lol.
I despised the Rapunzel Unbraided version as well. It just looked plain awful and the characters seemed pretty insufferable. The only reason I would have preferred it over Tangled is because hopefully the film would be so bad that it would fade into obscurity and Disney would never bring it up again lol. What do you think didn't work in the original source material for Rapunzel though? I've always been a fan of the original tale and I used to have this old Disney book which was a traditional adaptation of the tale but with Mickey as the Prince and Minnie as Rapunzel. Clarabelle was Gothel and Donald and Daisy were Minnie's parents who she's reunited with at the end. I also used to have some old Barbie books about Rapunzel way before Barbie as Rapunzel (the movie) came out. I like that adaptation too even moreso than Tangled lol.
Frankly if it feels like classic Disney that's in part because most of the magical moments that Tumblr stans gush on about were essentially poached from earlier Disney films. The I See the Light sequence is straight from the Kiss the Girl playbook and the ending healing scene is a revamp of the Beauty and the Beast transformation sequence. I remember when the film came out, a lot of critics mentioned that the film just took some of Disney's most iconic moments and tropes and blended them together.
Personally I feel that characters like Cinderella and Quasimodo are better examples of characters who have been through trauma and locked away their whole lives. Rapunzel is not a realistic case at all and she comes across like any normal teenage girl you'd meet on the streets. She's never met a person besides Gothel before Flynn yet she adapts to every situation outside her tower with an ease that even the average person wouldn't be able to handle. No anxiety or social awkwardness or fear or insecurities about the outside world beyond a silly montage of her alternating between bursting for joy and sobbing for disobeying her mother. It seems like in the attempt to make her relatable, they made her too relatable.
It's not your fault at all and I didn't think you were blaming anyone. I just wanted to let you know that a lot of people would be really interested in hearing your positive thoughts about Tangled because it really does have a lot of fans here. I certainly am glad to have read your take on the film. In fact, this is pretty much the only place where there are some detractors for the film beyond major Frozen fans who may have issues with Tangled.
farerb wrote:I agree with you D82.
I didn't like Rapunzel Unbraided as well and I appreciate the more sincere approach for Tangled. I really like how the characters evolve throughout the film and how they affect each other. Rapunzel makes Flynn less self centered and Flynn makes Rapunzel more confident in herself to the point where she's not afraid to stand up to Gothel like she was in the beginning. I also like Gothel as a villain. I think she might be a little too real for people to like like they do with Maleficent, Cruella and others...
I also like the way they use the crown as a metaphor for Rapunzel's virginity. Look at these lines:
- "This is why he's here. Don't let him deceive you. Give it to him, watch, you'll see. Trust me my dear, that's how fast he'll leave you."
- "What if it's not everything that I dreamed it would be?"
- "I should have given it to you before, but I was just scared. The thing is, I'm not scared anymore. You know what I mean?"
Which is similar to how the original fairytale is about Rapunzel sexual awakening.
I also really like "The Princess in the Tower" trope, which is one of the reasons I like Sleeping Beauty so much.
I think the only things I dislike about it is the ruffians and the epilogue.
The one thing I will say that I do like about Tangled is how you mention that Flynn also helps Rapunzel grow in confidence and stand up to Gothel. Probably because it reminds me of the Keane/Wellins version where Bastion did something similar for Rapunzel.
I'm less convinced by Rapunzel helping Flynn grow as a person because he always seemed like a cad in my eyes and frankly a guy like him would totally take advantage of a naive and sheltered girl like Rapunzel. Happens all the time in real life and the fact that Flynn and Rapunzel are so contemporary in their personalities and actions makes this even more evident, especially with that tiara metaphor you mentioned.
I also never realized the tiara could be considered a metaphor for Rapunzel's virginity and I think that's a neat callback to the sexual awakening of her character in the fairy tale then.
I like the whole maiden/princess in the tower trope as well although I don't think Tangled was at all a good demonstration of that.
D82 wrote:
That's exactly what I like about her, that she seems quite real, and therefore even more terrifying than some other villains. Her motivation is quite believable; who wouldn't like not to age? And who knows what some people would do to achieve that. I think some fans preferred an early version of Gothel where she was much nicer to Rapunzel and more careful to hide her real intentions. I can understand that, but I personally think the final version is more believable. Someone as selfish as her wouldn't make that extra effort, especially when Rapunzel has never met anyone apart from her and doesn't have anyone else to compare her with.
Personally, I found characters like Lady Tremaine, Gaston, and Frollo to be better realistic depictions of villains and far more terrifying. Gothel is the character I like most from Tangled but even then, I feel like her potential is squandered and we really don't get to know her enough. In the original version of Rapunzel, she's supposed to come across as a perfect mother to the viewers but that's in part because she's brainwashed Rapunzel so completely that you don't notice the off signs until Bastion would come into Rapunzel's life and gradually confront her about her indoctrination and false beliefs about the outside world. As Gothel realizes that Rapunzel is slipping from her grasp, then her true colors would slowly unveil and we would see the darkness within. I think this version would get more screentime with Rapunzel for once to actually develop their relationship unlike in Tangled.
Musical Master wrote:
The Glen Keane and Dean Wellins version of Rapunzel would've been the version I preferred over the one we got. Despite that, I still really like Tangled even if some elements could've been so much more than what they are. This is possibly why I think Frozen, Moana and Frozen II are better movies overall for they take advantage of what they were given and use those elements in ways that make them quite special.
Completely agree. Especially since Lasseter himself said that the beginning 20 minutes or so of the film was the best opening he had ever seen. I think it was either the second or final act that plagued the film with problems. I can't remember which one for sure but maybe it was the middle act because of all the time spent in the tower (this is why Tangled has Rapunzel leave so early on). That's also the issue they had with Beauty and the Beast with the middle act and Belle spending all her time having dinner with the Beast in the castle hence why the fairy tale was altered.
