A Kiss Before Dying... [2D Animation]

[Big Disney Fan]

Take a look at this article here: http://www.laughingplace.com/News-ID513020.asp.

I don't know what this article means. Does it mean that unless we all go out to see "The Princess and the Frog", then 2D animation will pretty much go the way of the dodo? That's the impression I'm getting.

[ajmrowland]

The Public rolls around in bad news like Pigs in mud.

Some people are saying 2012 is the End of the the World, some say the PSP is dead, Some say that Blu-ray won't catch on, some say the Golden Compass will make your kids anti-god, some say a Movie's opening weekend will forever determine it's fate, some say Micheal Jackson was a child-molester, Some say President Obama's a Muslim, some say he will bankrupt us. Need I go on?

[pap64]

First of all, this has already been discussed in three threads...

http://www.ultimatedisney.com/forum/vie ... hp?t=25736

http://www.ultimatedisney.com/forum/vie ... hp?t=25989

http://www.ultimatedisney.com/forum/vie ... hp?t=25968

Second, even if the film isn't in the top 5, it has been able to maintain a solid position, earning 3 to 4 million each day, and around 10 to 15 million each week. It has already surpassed 86 million, and with the first worldwide numbers its already at 106 million.

Finally, fans are now beginning to overreact. Could the movie have been a bigger success and created more noise? Of course. But that was going to be hard due to more than three blockbuster films opening at once. But despite the hard competition the movie has been hanging in there thanks to strong word of mouth.

No offense Big Disney Fan, but discussing this a third time would be beating a beyond dead horse. Its all up to Disney to decide if the movie is a success or a failure.

[Big Disney Fan]

No offense Big Disney Fan, but discussing this a third time would be beating a beyond dead horse. Its all up to Disney to decide if the movie is a success or a failure.

Well, I didn't know it was discussed already.

[pap64]

No offense Big Disney Fan, but discussing this a third time would be beating a beyond dead horse. Its all up to Disney to decide if the movie is a success or a failure.

Well, I didn't know it was discussed already.

No worries. Its just that the topic is growing old. Not your fault.

Maybe a mod can merge this with any of the threads mentioned?

[Super Aurora]

First of all, this has already been discussed in three threads...

http://www.ultimatedisney.com/forum/vie ... hp?t=25736

http://www.ultimatedisney.com/forum/vie ... hp?t=25989

http://www.ultimatedisney.com/forum/vie ... hp?t=25968

Second, even if the film isn't in the top 5, it has been able to maintain a solid position, earning 3 to 4 million each day, and around 10 to 15 million each week. It has already surpassed 86 million, and with the first worldwide numbers its already at 106 million.

Finally, fans are now beginning to overreact. Could the movie have been a bigger success and created more noise? Of course. But that was going to be hard due to more than three blockbuster films opening at once. But despite the hard competition the movie has been hanging in there thanks to strong word of mouth.

No offense Big Disney Fan, but discussing this a third time would be beating a beyond dead horse. Its all up to Disney to decide if the movie is a success or a failure.

Escapy's successor.

[DisneyJedi]

Great. Just when I've stopped worrying.

[Sotiris]

Great. Just when I've stopped worrying.

I'm afraid it's only a matter of time before we hear the news that the Snow Queen has either been canceled or turned into a CGI project.

[DisneyJedi]

Great. Just when I've stopped worrying.

I'm afraid it's only a matter of time before we hear the news that the Snow Queen has either been canceled or turned into a CGI project.

I hope it doesn't happen like that! 8(

Besides, I know that someone told me that TPatF is NOT flopping!

[Siren]

We heard the same song with Home on the Range and now we have Princess and the Frog.

[estefan]

Except The Princess and the Frog looks well on its way to surpassing $100 million at the domestic box-office (the first hand-drawn animated film to do so since Lilo & Stitch, I believe) and should generate even more internationally. I don't see Iger closing down hand-drawn animation now and even then, Lasseter would never allow it.

[Atlantica]

And please don't forget that it has not yet had its UK release yet; not until Feb 5th.

From the impression that I have, there is high anticipation for the film, and many people are going to see it. The release is being covered in the news, billboards are everywhere, and again, as you guys have said, there is strong word of mouth.

We should all just give it more time ! People love it anyway; shouldnt that be enough ?

[2099net]

I think its fair to say Disney are disappointed with the Princess and the Frog's box office. But I don't think its performance is "the end of 2D" at Disney.

It would be pretty hard for Disney to justify to their shareholders the expense of setting up a 2D animation department for features and miscellaneous animated shorts, only for them to close it down again after one theatrical release (and as far as I know, so far only 1 Disney short [the goofy one?]). Doing so would only cause the shareholders to question Iger's wisdom of setting it up in the first place.

So I think 2D animation at Disney has another 2 or 3 pictures before any serious future-changing decisions are made. However, if the next 2D animated film appears to "underperform" that could change. After all, Disney has Pixar's films, and ImageMovers' motion captured CGI - and the animation genre is flourishing more than ever at the cinema these days, mostly due to the CGI revolution. Does Disney really need to release more than two films with animation each year? Perhaps not.

In some respects, I think its rather foolish for Disney to schedule a Winnie the Pooh movie in addition to all their other upcoming animated films - but I guess that's more about "repairing" the franchise after people were turned off somewhat by its last TV incarnation, rather than a definitive statement about pencil animation.

[PatrickvD]

I think its fair to say Disney are disappointed with the Princess and the Frog's box office. But I don't think its performance is "the end of 2D" at Disney.

It would be pretty hard for Disney to justify to their shareholders the expense of setting up a 2D animation department for features and miscellaneous animated shorts, only for them to close it down again after one theatrical release (and as far as I know, so far only 1 Disney short [the goofy one?]). Doing so would only cause the shareholders to question Iger's wisdom of setting it up in the first place.

So I think 2D animation at Disney has another 2 or 3 pictures before any serious future-changing decisions are made. However, if the next 2D animated film appears to "underperform" that could change. After all, Disney has Pixar's films, and ImageMovers' motion captured CGI - and the animation genre is flourishing more than ever at the cinema these days, mostly due to the CGI revolution. Does Disney really need to release more than two films with animation each year? Perhaps not.

In some respects, I think its rather foolish for Disney to schedule a Winnie the Pooh movie in addition to all their other upcoming animated films - but I guess that's more about "repairing" the franchise after people were turned off somewhat by its last TV incarnation, rather than a definitive statement about pencil animation.

I agree for the most part. I think the Winnie the Pooh film is, in addition to brand repair, also a Cars 2 kind of film. Merchandise and dvd sales will be big and the film costs little to make. It's easy to forgive the slightly too high budget of The Princess and the Frog when you have a Winnie the Pooh film raking in all this money.

[milojthatch]

The Public rolls around in bad news like Pigs in mud.

...Some say that Blu-ray won't catch on...

And that's BAD news?

I think its fair to say Disney are disappointed with the Princess and the Frog's box office. But I don't think its performance is "the end of 2D" at Disney.

It would be pretty hard for Disney to justify to their shareholders the expense of setting up a 2D animation department for features and miscellaneous animated shorts, only for them to close it down again after one theatrical release (and as far as I know, so far only 1 Disney short [the goofy one?]). Doing so would only cause the shareholders to question Iger's wisdom of setting it up in the first place.

So I think 2D animation at Disney has another 2 or 3 pictures before any serious future-changing decisions are made. However, if the next 2D animated film appears to "underperform" that could change. After all, Disney has Pixar's films, and ImageMovers' motion captured CGI - and the animation genre is flourishing more than ever at the cinema these days, mostly due to the CGI revolution. Does Disney really need to release more than two films with animation each year? Perhaps not.

In some respects, I think its rather foolish for Disney to schedule a Winnie the Pooh movie in addition to all their other upcoming animated films - but I guess that's more about "repairing" the franchise after people were turned off somewhat by its last TV incarnation, rather than a definitive statement about pencil animation.

You make some great points. I'm not worried yet. And if it does die, who says it will not make a come back again?

[Siren]

I think Disney is spreading the rumor that there won't be any 2D films unless more people see the movie....to make more money...Its a conspiracy, I know it!

[pap64]

I think its fair to say Disney are disappointed with the Princess and the Frog's box office. But I don't think its performance is "the end of 2D" at Disney.

It would be pretty hard for Disney to justify to their shareholders the expense of setting up a 2D animation department for features and miscellaneous animated shorts, only for them to close it down again after one theatrical release (and as far as I know, so far only 1 Disney short [the goofy one?]). Doing so would only cause the shareholders to question Iger's wisdom of setting it up in the first place.

So I think 2D animation at Disney has another 2 or 3 pictures before any serious future-changing decisions are made. However, if the next 2D animated film appears to "underperform" that could change. After all, Disney has Pixar's films, and ImageMovers' motion captured CGI - and the animation genre is flourishing more than ever at the cinema these days, mostly due to the CGI revolution. Does Disney really need to release more than two films with animation each year? Perhaps not.

In some respects, I think its rather foolish for Disney to schedule a Winnie the Pooh movie in addition to all their other upcoming animated films - but I guess that's more about "repairing" the franchise after people were turned off somewhat by its last TV incarnation, rather than a definitive statement about pencil animation.

I agree with Netty as well. Let's look at the facts...

Disney hand drawn animation started truly dwindling around the release of Fantasia 2000 and Emperor's New Groove. Let's look at the films that came after them...

Atlantis: Failure
Lilo and Stitch: Success
Treasure Planet: Failure
Brother Bear: Failure
Home on the Range: Failure

So that's seven animated movies Disney went through before pulling the plug on hand drawn animation. If Disney were to pull the plug a second time on hand drawn animation they would have to go through another set of failures before officially declaring it dead in the water.

It should also be noted that the CG films Disney released weren't spectacular hits either. Chicken Little, Meet the Robinsons and Bolt all underperformed at the box office, despite being shiny, new, 3D enhanced CG films similar in style to the Pixar and Dreamworks films. So the medium isn't the sole problem here. Its a problem of quality, marketing and audience acceptance.

In other words, they didn't flock the theaters to see 3D Disney, and they didn't flock theaters to see 2D films either. When neither medium is doing enough business then clearly its a bigger problem.

[DisneyJedi]

So..... the only thing that matters is if a movie does well domestically? Well, if that's how it's handled, then that's truly not fair.

[pap64]

So..... the only thing that matters is if a movie does well domestically? Well, if that's how it's handled, then that's truly not fair.

Who are you aiming this at?

First of all, Disney may be a beloved company that provides great entertainment, but they are a COMPANY that does things for money. I know, I know, this makes them sound like they are a greedy corporation, but that's what they are. Sure, there are people that work there that truly love it and create great works of art for the sake of it. But there's a corporate side that not only gives the money to create these projects they also expect some profit out of it.

This is a reality for ANYONE doing anything in life. Even independent filmmakers hope to make some profit out of their projects, because that's what will help them create bigger and better projects.

[DisneyJedi]

Well, I do want this movie to break even domestically. I really do. But now, school's coming to bring kids back, and I'm not even sure if it'll help with the movie.

And I know that it would take a lot of failures for Disney to pull the plug on 2D animation again, and just transfer any planed 2D movies and make them CGI, much like they did for Chicken Little and Meet the Robinsons.