Batman Begins 3 Possibly 2011 and discussion of villains

[disneyboy20022]

http://www.movie-moron.com/?p=3611

Possibly the Ridler??


http://www.movie-moron.com/?p=584

[Escapay]

Both Johnny Depp and David Tennant expressed interest in playing The Riddler, and I'd LOVE to see either tackle the role (though one can easily guess who I'd prefer).

albert

[Flanger-Hanger]

Harley Quinn would be fun and it would be interesting to see Nolan's take on her but they probably wouldn't pick her.

[Mason_Ireton]

Harley Quinn is a semi popular character in the Batman universe....in my opinon she worked well in the animated series on her own (the Posion Ivy/Harley Quinn episodes) but I'm not sure if she could actualy be a stand alone villian.....she would work best if Joker was returning, which sadlly made the plan unexpectedly shelved due to the great Heath Ledger's untimely death. If done right then maybe Harley could work with Riddler (who knows).


As for the Riddler himself, I remember seeing him in the series a couple times and last year I watched Batman Forever, Jim Carrey's perfomance as the schemin, resourceful Riddler came off a tad wild for my taste and now that I look at it, it's so 90s *shrugs* I wouldn't mind Mr. Nolan takin the same approach with Riddler like he did with Joker.

[Just Myself]

I'd love to see The Riddler portrayed as a Zodiac-like maniac, that would fit in perfectly with Nolan's Batman universe.

Also, this may be stretching things a bit, but *SPOILERS* I think they should bring back Rachel in the form of Catwoman. Maybe not as a criminal mastermind or something like that, but as a more low-key, character based villain, to further conflict with Bruce/Batman. I may be the only thing, but I think if done right it could be pretty cool.

Cheers,
JM

[Mason_Ireton]

I'm alil bummed that we won't see familar villains (IE Catwoman, Peguin) in the Nolan series...but I can see why he wants to exploit other villains wiho haven't been featured in the film series. Guessin he made an exception on Two-Face/Joker probaly due to the popularity of the characters. I'll admit that I don't even remember Scarecrow from the animated series to be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing "revamps" of the following villains

Poison Ivy

Riddler

Mr. Freeze

and Catwoman.

Still don't get bout the whole "No Robin" rule....was the character unwelcome to the comics?? or he's just not that appealing like other heros/sidekicks??

[2099net]

Still don't get bout the whole "No Robin" rule....was the character unwelcome to the comics?? or he's just not that appealing like other heros/sidekicks??

Well, readers did vote for Jason Todd's Robin to be beaten almost to death by the Joker and then blown-up* That said, Jason Todd was a whining ass. I'm not surprised they voted him out.

I think the problem with a Robin (especially in the Nolan Bat-verse) is that he just wouldn't fit. Even if you tone down the colours and costume. There's no place for a teenage boy to be exposed to the dark, cruel dangers of the Batman universe.

It's one of the reasons I'm not keen at all on the Nolan-take of Batman. It's all too grim, seedy and "realistic". I think he has to ask himself does he want to make superhero films, or crime films. I know the comics have often toyed with criminal gangs, gangsters and mature topics. But even then, there's always an element of "hyper reality" to Gotham.

* Jason Todd is, apparently alive, back and somewhat "annoyed". [shrugs] I guess only Bruce's parents stay dead.

[Mason_Ireton]

Thanks for the lil history on Robin 2099, much appericated.

I like the lil "realistic" feeling to the new Batman, in a way it's kinda goin towards Spider Man's story arch....using villains/characters that reflect the alt. side of the main character, that's what i liked bout Harvey Dent, he seemed like an equal to Bruce Wayne in society but when it came to being heros, he allowed corruption to consume him.

[Siren]

On Harley Quinn, I'd love to see Nolan's take on her. She could be just as insane and bubbly, but darker, even more dangerous. The tv series was very limited on what they could let her do. The comic books, she's a little more out there.

I know all you Heath Ledger fans will boo and hiss at me...but sorry, the Joker needs to come back. IMO, Crispin Glover should take over. I always thought he should have got the part in the first place. Heath was damn brilliant in the role, but sadly, he is gone now, but Joker never dies and we need him back.

Bringing Joker back they could bring Harley into it. Maybe a new, darker adaptation of Mad Love. Not saying for this movie, but I'd like to see Joker back in either the 4th or 5th movies. And hopefully Harley too.

I'd love to see Mr. Freeze...done right. Arnold was actually a good Mr. Freeze, when he was serious. It was Joel F***maker's craptacular script and gags that ruined it. But when Mr. Freeze was with his wife, he was Mr. Freeze. He played him fine then. If Nolan was doing the film back then, I bet Arnold would have played Mr. Freeze spot-on. But I wouldn't want to see Arnold come back as Mr. Freeze certainly now. Too much bad publicity with that one. But Nolan adapting Mr. Freeze would be a beautiful thing. Mr. Freeze has always been a dark and tragic villain. Nearly every single crime he commits, is all in the name of love. For his wife. To save her life, to bring her back to him. Such a sad story. Sub-Zero did a pretty good adaptation of Mr. Freeze. He was willing to kill others to save her...Its love...psychotic love, but love. What can I say, I am a hopeless romantic? LOL

Actually always thought a fun pair up of villains would be Harley and Mr. Freeze. Polar opposites (no pun intended) working together. Far better than Icy and Freeze, IMO. Speaking of Ivy, another good pair up for Nolan is Ivy and Harley. Great stuff with those two together, funny, devious, and it certainly makes the guys happy with all the lesbian innuendos, lol

[Mason_Ireton]

I agree bout realizing the Ivy/Harley teamup into the Nolan Batman, defintly be a new take on the friendship....I can see Ms. Ivy being adapted for Nolan's series yet with alil more charsma.

Sometime ago (can't remember) I recall an article where David Erckhart (that's his last name?) commented on Joker being the 3rd film's villain and then round the same time as said article, Gary Oldman (Sirus Black/Dect. Gordan) commented on Riddler being the possible villain along with development of Dect. Gordan trackin down Batman...

I always liked the idea of teamin Joker/Riddler, you have a intriguing chemistry between the 2 villains, Joker has zero empthany towards soicety, comes off as a paranoid murderer with grunge. Then you have Riddler, who's resourceful, swift and alil manipultive (I believe) so you can actauly care for Riddler, for we know that Joker will cross ANYBODY no matter what.

[PeterPanfan]

Also, this may be stretching things a bit, but *SPOILERS* I think they should bring back Rachel in the form of Catwoman. Maybe not as a criminal mastermind or something like that, but as a more low-key, character based villain, to further conflict with Bruce/Batman. I may be the only thing, but I think if done right it could be pretty cool.

Cheers,
JM

I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE that idea! It needs to happen! Or at least have Catwoman in the series at some point. We can't have the Halle Barry movie be the only recent film to showcase the amazingess that is Catwoman. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I would also love to see Poison Ivy/Batgirl and Harley Quinn.

[Flanger-Hanger]

I'd love for Harley Quinn to be an ex-nurse or doctor from Arkham Asylum who got her brain messed up from begin around the Joker.

[Siren]

I'm sorry, but the Rachael/Catwoman thing just doesn't jive with me. It would be far worse than Halle Belle as Catwoman. Catwoman's start is her bring blown to bits? What's the story on how she survived, a bunch of alley cats untied her in the nick of time, even though we clearly see the explosion behind her head?

[Mason_Ireton]

I'm sorry, but the Rachael/Catwoman thing just doesn't jive with me. It would be far worse than Halle Belle as Catwoman. Catwoman's start is her bring blown to bits? What's the story on how she survived, a bunch of alley cats untied her in the nick of time, even though we clearly see the explosion behind her head?

Yeah that'd be a tough one to pull off....*shrugs* that's like in "Return To Neverland" Peter Pan never lost his hideout after Hook blew it up ....

I like the idea of Harley being a ex nurse/threapist for Arkham Assylum (seems logical) course she's the only Batman villain whose's history I don't know, among other villains.

[Siren]

In Harley's origin story, she was a psychology major who slept her way through college...She slept with the professors to get good grades. A real slut But it worked. She got to Arkum with her sights already on Joker. She wanted to get alone with him to interview him for a tell-all book she felt she would make millions on. And she probably would have, if she didn't fall madly in love with him. He was very charismatic, telling her all about his abusive childhood. How his father took him to the circus and it was the first time he saw his dad laugh, and that night he tried to make his dad laugh but instead his father beat the living hell out of him. Harley felt terrible for him. Joker later escaped and Batman brought him back. Batman had beat the living hell out of Joker and Harley started screaming at Batman for hurting him so bad. Harley's boss suggested she not see Joker anymore for private interview sessions (I think she got fired too, need to re-read that). So Harley made her costume, broke into the asylum and broke Joker out of there.

Later on, Batman gives it to Harley good...asks her what story Joker told her about his childhood...he had a million of them....Harley for a brief moment realized she was duped, but her insanity and love for Joker overtook her and she's remained the steadfast, beaten, lovesick housewife every since.

And yes, the parts in Dark Knight where Joker made up those different stories of his origin do come Mad Love and other Joker stories. He makes up his origin all the time.

But Harley's story is a good set-up for a Nolan Batman and way to bring the Joker back. He is in the asylum as of the end of the movie, so it would only make sense to start Harley in a similar way to Mad Love.

[Mason_Ireton]

I like your thinking Siren...thanks for sharing Harley's story, it's really..um gritty (in my opinon) yet interesting.

Harley's character seems highly wrapped by manipulation along with a easly impressionable mind....but it's interesting to see how far Joker would go to consume anybody..at no cost.

[Siren]

Yeah, its pretty in your face with Harley in the comic. They did adapt that comic to the animated TV show, but left out the part where she slept with her teachers and such, lol.

I think my favorite scene from that comic was when she put on the little teddy and crawls across the table Joker is sitting at, really sexy like. Joker is looking at different plans on how to kill Batman. Harley is trying to coax Joker to come to bed for some WooHoo (Sims fans will get that joke), and Joker just ignores her. She then takes out one of their toys and puts it in his face and says, "I got the whoopie cushion" and squeezes it so it farts in his face. Joker then pay attention to her, smiles and seems like he's getting into it and then suddenly starts yelling and literally kicks her into the alley. Poor Harl!

[Mason_Ireton]

Wasn't that part of a Ivy/Harley episode? the scene where she got kicked into the alley? *tries remembering* hmm...could've been..

Wow, now I'm really am hopin that they bring Harley to the big screen, but I still think she needs Ivy to make the character appealing, guess I'm so used to the tv show that I assume that she works really well if Joker is there....

[2099net]

Thanks for the lil history on Robin 2099, much appericated.

I like the lil "realistic" feeling to the new Batman, in a way it's kinda goin towards Spider Man's story arch....using villains/characters that reflect the alt. side of the main character, that's what i liked bout Harvey Dent, he seemed like an equal to Bruce Wayne in society but when it came to being heros, he allowed corruption to consume him.

Really, they've had that dynamic between Batman and Batman's Rogue Gallery since the 1940s. Why do you think so many villains for Batman have lasted so long? Even when Batman went all "pop-art" in the 1960's

True, modern comics (post 1985) may make the comparisons and the contrasts more explicit, but since Two-Face's first appearance the "friend of Bruce who has fallen" has been played up in most of his stories. Likewise, it doesn't take much to see the differences/similarities between the Joker and Batman - both are two sides of the same coin really, and both are equally insane.

Almost all of the characters are defined by key moments in their lives, and how they re-acted to them - the possible exception being the Joker who has never had a 100% accurate "origin" in the comics as far as I know (although the Red Hood story is pretty much accepted now, but involves elements of "unreliable storytelling" in every instance I've seen). Batman, Two-Face, Catwoman, The Riddler, The Scarecrow, Mr Freeze... they are all basically people who have reacted to what fate has dealt them, in different ways.

That's another reason I don't like the Nolan Bat-verse. In reality, people don't become larger than life characters like the Bat-Villains. They kill themselves, or even worse grab a gun or a knife and go on a killing spree. There's something, in my mind, distasteful about rooting the whole outlandish, exaggerated personnas and psyche's so firmly in "reality".

I think Burton got the tone of a "live action" Batman more or less perfect. I have issues with his Joker, but they're more down to Jack than Burton I guess. I still can't see any logical reason why Burton was basically removed from the films. Of course the irony now is that Batman Returns was considered "too dark" for young children, when the Nolan films aren't even aimed at children!

[Flanger-Hanger]

I'm surprised Burton was dropped too since Returns was the 3rd biggest money maker of it's year earning more than double it's production budget in it's domestic release alone. However it may have been due to anger over losing the McDonald's promotion and any kind of additional revenue from kiddie marketing gimmicks.

Batman Forever, despite begin awful, was the 2nd biggest money maker of it's year and very kid friendly.