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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:39 pm 
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I bought the Collection Edition (?) DVD of The Black Cauldron, just to see why lots of people say it's the worst Disney movie, and after I watched it, I was kinda scared and freaked out that Disney accually made a movie like that. So 2 days ago I watched it again (Bored :P), and it wasn't that bad. The Horned King scared the bejeebus out of me, but all in all it's pretty good!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:41 am 
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The Black Cauldron is either a film you love or hate there really isn't much room inbetween. I happen to love it! Of course it has flaws (mostly in the story). Visually it is a FEAST! Thank goodness for a most refreshing change of pace it wasn't packed full of predictable sing along songs, musical extravaganzas, and overtly cute characters. It was Disney trying to venture into new areas, push their envelope. Maybe it was flawed here and there but they gave it a great try! The animation, score, voices talents, and background styling were all great. Perhaps when were so immersed in one style/formula of animation for so long its hard to open up to new innovative offerings. I say watch it again and appreciate it for it's pure beauty and for 80 minutes try to banish Tinker Bell from your mind, and at the end we will gladly let tink back in. :twisted:


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:23 am 
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I've never seen this... :( It was neer released here on DVD, so I'll have to blind buy it off the internet! I'll probably ask for this on my next birthday since I really want to see it!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:38 am 
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littlefuzzy wrote:
I don't know how many of you already know this, but The Black Cauldron was the second book in a series of five great books by Lloyd Alexander.
1. The Book of Three
2. The Black Cauldron
3. The Castle of Llyr
4. Taran Wanderer
5. The High King

Since some of the characters had already been introduced in the first book, and others would be expanded upon in the later books, the movie might feel incomplete. I haven't actually seen the movie yet (unless I saw it or parts of it ages ago,) so I can only go by the books right now.


If they made this all live action it would be a good movie series.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:39 am 
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There's a lot I can say about this film. The history of it may actually be more interesting than the film itself.

I've always been a big Disney fan but somehow I totally missed any hint that the film was even hitting theaters. Now granted, I was only nine years old that summer, but they must have done something wrong with their advertising if someone in their target audience group had no clue it even existed.

It was maybe five or six years later that I first started reading about it in my Disney books, and the fact that I totally missed the release got me interested. I began looking for a video at every rental in my area (I didn't know any better, I didn't have internet back then) and was eventually told it had never been released. I began looking up reviews in old newspapers and searched for the books. Of course I read the Chronicles of Prydain; interestingly enough the Horned King is dead by the time the plot of the black cauldron even exists (I read they chose him mainly because of the visual possibilities of a character having horns sticking out of his head). I even managed to find a few of Disney's children's books on the film.

I became a little obsessed with it after finding out that it was supposed to be the "Snow White of the new generation of artists." Perhaps they weren't quite ready for that kind of responsibility and tried a little too hard to make it more of an adult film. As the newly appointed Jeffrey Katzenberg reasoned, maybe people just weren't ready for a film like that from Disney.

Something else I found fascinating was that it was the very first animated film from Disney that was edited for content in post-production. That simply wasn't done at the time. . . all that work, all that production time, totally wasted. But leave it to Katzenberg; he did the editing himself, removing a rumored two to three minutes of animation before the theatrical release, including a shot depicting the ruthlessness and cruelty of the immortal Cauldron-born. . . one of the Horned King's henchman is strangled to death simply because he didn't step out of their way. I'd love to see that scene, but alas, no one's even sure that those scenes still exist.

When I started pen-palling with fellow Disney fans, I started a letter-writing campaign. So many other people hadn't even heard of the movie and offered their support. Disney and Buena Vista received many letters from us.

When I finally began to gain access to the internet at the library, it was one of the first things I looked up. I found a website that offered petition to bring the film to VHS, and I happily had my name added to the list. I haven't been able to find it recently; I don't think the site exists anymore, but of course there is no longer any need for it. Anyway, that particular site was credited by the Chicago Tribune as the main reason the film finally saw its first home video release in the US. If I remember right, even the director's name was on that list (he didn't even get to have a copy of his own movie).

So finally I got the film in the palm of my hands. I was initially disappointed; too scary for little kids, yet not meaty enough to appeal to the older set. I wondered if those deleted scenes would have made a difference, or if I had simply hyped myself up for a disappointment.

I warmed up to it once it was released on DVD, since it was the first time I was able to make myself give it an objective look.

Has anyone noticed that it was Eilonwy that was the first self-possessed Disney princess, not Ariel? Her magic bauble may be a puzzling distraction in the film, but in the books it gets a fair amount of use. I suspect that Disney felt the need to include it to show that she was a sorceress in training but didn't know quite what to do with it.

One of the major problems Disney had was trying to break down the complicated epic into a cohesive story that that would work as a film. The production was bogged down for a good ten years and a countless number of artists had their hand in it (including the unused ideas of a young Tim Burton).

Overall, I find it to be a satisfying picture, and I'm disappointed that so many people call it the worst Disney film ever. Maybe if they knew more about its history they could find a new respect for it?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:36 pm 
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This film is one of our favorites, love the animation.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:43 pm 
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The history of its creation might not really make it any better, but the whole "big picture" becomes more interesting that way. I tend to think that it would be possible to make even something more than a two-disc set of this title. The whole troubled history could be handled in a serious manner. But I guess I won't see Disney doing that.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 3:51 pm 
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Mr. Toad wrote:
Hmmm. Gotta say its my 44th favorite of the animated classics.


I agree with that! The story was just so unlike Disney. The dark tone was just not a good addition to the movie. Plus there was no real entertainment for me. Sure extrodanary animation but that's really all the possitive things you can say about. The characters were either annoying or very two-dimensional, no real heart, or any songs. I'm not saying every Disney movie needs songs, but with such a dark movie like this you'd like at least a good moment for the kids. Overall I didn't care for it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 5:19 pm 
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I too think Black Cauldron is Disney's single-most UNDERRATED film. It's more than a classic. Read Roger Ebert's review if you don't think this is one of the best surprises you've ever seen. I remember when I bought the film used for like 3 bucks, not really thinking I was going to be at all interested in it. Surprise! I think it's better than just surprising or great. It's perfect. I remember thinking at every stage, the film was perfect. It made all the right decisions, and stepped beyond the awkwardness of what might have been an underdone sword-and-sorcery animated epic. They made a great story, with excellent characters, and a film that doesn't really pull back the punches. People who didn't like Pocahontas would do themselves a favor to check this out.

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 Post subject: Cauldron Songs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:18 pm 
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I just can't warm up to the idea of adding songs to the Black Cauldron. I feel adding songs just for the sake of trying kidify the film would have added even more complexity to the many challenges the film already faced trying to break out of the Disney typical formula film. Its just not a song type of film no matter how you look at it. Couldn't be. I feel children today are more open to change than we may think or realize. You don't see songs in a films like the Harry Potter, but they keep making them! I don't think Black Cauldron would be appropriate for children that are too young which I would ball park around 10 years or less. The Horned King is potential nightmare material. Parents should screen films for their childs healthy development and be sure what they view is a good age fit. How did I get from Songs to healthy development? Beats me! Oh well, perhaps the parents are the ones who miss the songs and not really the kids. After all the parents buy the DVD's. Just some food for thought.

I'd like to hear more on Horned King from some of my Cauldron Friends.

Michaeldisney :shock:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:01 am 
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well, is not the best of the Disney animated movies,but it have it good points...
For me, is not a good movie, because is too ark, the animation doent´s looks like a Disney one, the end leave many unawnsered questions and it have no songs
like it was made just to complete the compromise of have a picture every year


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:25 pm 
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I also think Black Cauldron is a great warm-up to The Little Mermaid.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:01 pm 
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Lazario wrote:
I also think Black Cauldron is a great warm-up to The Little Mermaid.


yeah, it sorta feels like one big piece of test animation for The Little Mermaid. It's also a beautiful example of old school Disney transforming into the new Disney. Look at the old guy with the harp, a standard design from Walt's days, but then look at creeper! Looks like he came right out of the 'Hades sidekick audition'! He's much more stylised and the animation on him is smooth and fast paced, like the genie. Although the movie is weak in many aspects, it's an extremely important movie in Disney's history, it's a crossover, from Walt's days to the new Disney.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:03 pm 
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Oh God, now that you mention old school Disney, this totally reminds me of Sleeping Beauty.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:19 pm 
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Lazario wrote:
Oh God, now that you mention old school Disney, this totally reminds me of Sleeping Beauty.


some shots yes, There are some beautiful widescreen shots a la Sleeping Beauty. Though the backgrounds aren't as stylised, detailed and beautiful as Sleeping Beauty, they definitely achieved some nice animation in certain scenes. But then nothing can top Sleeping Beauty in my mind :P

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:30 pm 
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I'll bet they might make a sequel to The Black Cauldron.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:35 pm 
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Teede wrote:
I'll bet they might make a sequel to The Black Cauldron.

Well, at the rate Disney's going, there might be a sequel to every animated classic in the future :roll: ; but TBC is not one of Disney's most popular films so don't get your hopes up for one in the near future

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:48 pm 
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Teede wrote:
I'll bet they might make a sequel to The Black Cauldron.


I know this guy who is working on it right now. It will be in theatres by August. :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:54 pm 
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Mr. Toad wrote:
Teede wrote:
I'll bet they might make a sequel to The Black Cauldron.


I know this guy who is working on it right now. It will be in theatres by August. :lol:

Heh, watch it, I'll bet she'll actually believe that and post it on other boards. :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:52 pm 
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PatrickvD wrote:
But then nothing can top Sleeping Beauty in my mind :P

Oh yeah! I'm with you on that 110 percent!

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