Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs Discussion

[Argenbrit]

Today I was watching Snow White and I noticed that all the dwarfs have only four fingers. The fact that they are dwarfs doesn't mean that they can't have five fingers, so why they only have four

I haven't seen this movie in ages. I wish I remembered that.

[Lars Vermundsberget]

Today I was watching Snow White and I noticed that all the dwarfs have only four fingers. The fact that they are dwarfs doesn't mean that they can't have five fingers, so why they only have four

What about the other human characters? Do they have hands with five fingers?

Anyway, the dwarfs have four fingers for the same reason Mickey Mouse and other characters have only four: Apparently, it's very difficult to draw, or rather animate, hands with five fingers believably. So the four-fingered hands saved quite some time and money - and probably worked better...

[Lars Vermundsberget]

In fact, did anyone ever notice the detail of all the cels? Snow White has blush and a lot of scenes give the characters shading(well, outlined shading). Why wasn't the animation in the later films given the same detail?

It's very expensive. When Disney made SW, they were ready to risk everything financially to make SW a work of art and a success. Although the next handful of animated features emphasize different sorts of details, I'd say you will find a similar level of detail in Pinocchio, Fantasia and Bambi.

With the discovery you just made, you'll also understand why it's sometimes argued that the truly Golden Age of Disney animation ended with Bambi in 1942.

[Pyoko]

Other characters like Snow White and the Queen have five fingers, due to the fact that they're drawn in a more realistic style; their fingers are long and slender.

The dwarves are drawn in a more cartoonish/comical style, with hands/fingers similar to Mickey's and as you say, five fingers doesn't really work well in that situation. If you had to slim down the fingers to make room for a fifth one then they wouldn't stay in touch with the overall style, and just adding another one of the same thickness would look quite bizarre (basically like a second thumb.)

[TheSequelOfDisney]

Why does it matter if the Dwarves have 4 or 5 fingers? The Dwarves were probably made like that to make them different from the other characters (i.e. Snow White & the Queen) just like Genie from Aladdin. He only has4 fingers, but we don't seem to mind, so I don't think that we should get all "up-tight" about how the Dwarves have only 4 fingers. And besides if you tried to add on another finger, the Dwarves would looks pretty weird!

[Disney Duster]

The Dwarves were probably made like that to make them different from the other characters (i.e. Snow White & the Queen) just like Genie from Aladdin. He only has4 fingers, but we don't seem to mind, so I don't think that we should get all "up-tight" about how the Dwarves have only 4 fingers.

Well, the Genie is not a human character, so he's like a different and more cartoonish creature. The dwarfs are more like real people, just shorter, so I think they should be drawn more like people, but I'm fine with their four fingers.

[Tarzan.]

What about the other human characters? Do they have hands with five fingers?

Yes, the other characters have five fingers. I see dwarfs like humans but smaller so that's why I don't understand very well why only four fingers and for example with Mickey that's not a problem because mice don't have fingers so they decided to create a figure with four.

[Tarzan.]

And besides if you tried to add on another finger, the Dwarves would looks pretty weird!

They would look weird because they drawn their fingers very thick and the hand looks completely full but if the fingers were smaller you could make space for another finger without making their hands weird.

[Lars Vermundsberget]

I see dwarfs like humans but smaller so that's why I don't understand very well why only four fingers and for example with Mickey that's not a problem because mice don't have fingers so they decided to create a figure with four.

Then I guess we should say that the distinction here should be made between "realistic" and "comic/cartoonish" - and not between "human" and "less human".

[Pluto Region1]

It is obvious that Snow White's story has ties to Eve eating the apple in the Garden of Eden and Jesus being the "prince" that saves our souls from death(eternal damnation). But consider a less religious meaning. Is Snow White's story representative of the passing of innocence and childhood? She's like a child, then she eats the apple and "dies", and then is reawakened as an adult by a man(awakening to sex=awakening to adulthood).

Wow, that is pretty heavy Disney Duster; I never thought about the similarities there! Maybe you are the first to notice the symbolism or the coincidence (depending on how you want to look at this.) Or perhaps it has all been hashed out in a book on Disney animation? I don't know.... I'm only a fan in training.

[Pluto Region1]

Why does it matter if the Dwarves have 4 or 5 fingers?

Well it doesn't really matter, it is just interesting I guess to wonder why that is. Was it done because they are dwarves and in the Disney animator's minds, dwarves don't have 5 fingers? Or, as Pyoko speculated here, was it done to make them more cartoon-like as opposed to Snow White and the "human" characters...

There are a lot of interesting theories here. It's hard to believe that Tarzan is the first person in history to have noticed this. With so many Disney fans out there over the decades, wouldn't someone have noticed this and asked the Disney animators this question? I bet the answer is buried in some Disney facts or animation book somewhere.

[Tarzan.]

It is obvious that Snow White's story has ties to Eve eating the apple in the Garden of Eden and Jesus being the "prince" that saves our souls from death(eternal damnation). But consider a less religious meaning. Is Snow White's story representative of the passing of innocence and childhood? She's like a child, then she eats the apple and "dies", and then is reawakened as an adult by a man(awakening to sex=awakening to adulthood).

Wow, that is pretty heavy Disney Duster; I never thought about the similarities there! Maybe you are the first to notice the symbolism or the coincidence (depending on how you want to look at this.) Or perhaps it has all been hashed out in a book on Disney animation? I don't know.... I'm only a fan in training.

That's from the book of Da Vinci Code, it says that about Snow White and something about the painting of Mary Magdalene on Ariel's cave.

[crunkcourt]

I'm actually watching Snow White right now and noticed that the first time we hear the song Heigh Ho the dwarfs are leaving work not going to work. I just thought this was kind of funny and thought I'd share.

[crunkcourt]

I noticed one more just as Snow White was ending. At the end when the Prince lifts up the dwarfs to say goodbye to Snow White, she only kisses 6 of the dwarfs on their head. Where is the other dwarf? I couldn't tell whether it was Sleepy or Sneezy that was missing. Does anyone know why this is the case?

[thatartguy]

Animated characters have 4 fingers simply because it is an animation shortcut. No need for 5 fingers when you can show the same visual information with 4.

If a character makes a fist and lifts the finger between his pinky and index finger, you get the point, right? You're not thinking, "Is that his ring finger or his middle finger?"

As an aside, the only character in The Simpsons that has 5 fingers is God. Coincedence?

[Lars Vermundsberget]

Wow, that is pretty heavy Disney Duster; I never thought about the similarities there! Maybe you are the first to notice the symbolism or the coincidence (depending on how you want to look at this.) Or perhaps it has all been hashed out in a book on Disney animation? I don't know.... I'm only a fan in training.

That's from the book of Da Vinci Code, it says that about Snow White and something about the painting of Mary Magdalene on Ariel's cave.

Although this could be seen as pretty "heavy", I guess it's not really that "far out". I even think I've read an interpretation like that somewhere before - and it was not the Da Vinci Code, which I haven't read.

[Disney Duster]

In the Da Vinci Code, Dan Brown writes:

"Most of Disney's hidden messages dealt with religion, pagan myth, and stories of the subjugated goddess. It was no mistake that Disney retold tales like Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, and Snow White-all of which dealt with the incarceration of the sacred feminine. Nor did one need a background in symbolism to understand that Snow White-a princess who fell from grace after partaking of a poisoned apple-was a clear allusion to the downfall of Eve in the Garden of Eden."

And I typed:

It is obvious that Snow White's story has ties to Eve eating the apple in the Garden of Eden and Jesus being the "prince" that saves our souls from death(eternal damnation). But consider a less religious meaning. Is Snow White's story representative of the passing of innocence and childhood? She's like a child, then she eats the apple and "dies", and then is reawakened as an adult by a man(awakening to sex=awakening to adulthood).

Notice that I said the comparison of Snow White's story to that of the Garden of Eden was obvious. I wanted to draw attention to my discovery of Snow White's story representing childhood or innocence dying, as in a story about becoming an adult. As far as I know, not many people ever thought about that, and I don't believe I learned that from anywhere else.

[joplin4]

I'm sure you didn't read it in this book, but it does mention this idea in "The Gospel According to Disney". Essentually, the Garden of Eden was about a loss of innocense...so your theory ties into the religious aspect.

[crunkcourt]

I personally don't think it's designed to represent a passage of childhood to adulthood through sex. If it is I wouldn't understand how you would interpret the sleeping death. However, it does represent a loss of innocence, and a regain of innocence. I haven't read the Da Vinci Code yet, so maybe there is more explaining that point of view in there, but as of now, I don't know if I buy that interpretation. Not to mention that in the original Grimm fairly tale, the Prince doesn't kiss her; instead the apple piece is lodged out of her throat as her coffin is picked up.

[Disney Duster]

I personally don't think it's designed to represent a passage of childhood to adulthood through sex. If it is I wouldn't understand how you would interpret the sleeping death. However, it does represent a loss of innocence, and a regain of innocence. I haven't read the Da Vinci Code yet, so maybe there is more explaining that point of view in there, but as of now, I don't know if I buy that interpretation. Not to mention that in the original Grimm fairly tale, the Prince doesn't kiss her; instead the apple piece is lodged out of her throat as her coffin is picked up.

Ah, but what I was getting at was specifically Walt Disney's version. Disney chose to make the character of Snow White very childish and innocent, which makes her death-like sleep receive more sadness and pity from the audience(the first audiences cried when the dwarfs gathered around her coffin). And when the prince kissed her and she awoke, that was also a choice Disney made. So I think Disney deliberately tried to express the passing of childishness into adulthood.

As for "a loss of innocence, and a regain of innocence", how does Snow White, in any version, regain innocence? In many versions, at Snow White's wedding with her prince(whom she will do not-so-innocent things with on her wedding night), they make the queen dance in heated iron shoes until she falls down dead. That's far from innocent... And also, in real-life we never regain innocence, so why would Snow White?