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 Post subject: Pocahontas Live-Action?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:01 am 
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I need to preface this by noting this outlet does not have the best reputation and plenty of their reports have been proven false so take it with a grain of salt. Personally, while I would love to see it happen, I'm not buying it's in the works. Disney's too cowardly to do this and deathly afraid of the inevitable backlash that would arise.

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Executives at Disney are intent to milk these live-action remakes for as long as they can, as according to our sources, next up on the list appears to be Pocahontas. The Academy Award-winning 1995 film was met with mixed reviews from critics and fans alike. While they praised the animation and music, many people were put off by the movie’s plot and racial overtones.

No doubt, the studio will try to avoid these mistakes this time around. In an effort to avoid yet another casting controversy, Disney is already trying to find a Native American actress to star in the titular role. Much like the upcoming remake of Mulan, there’s a solid chance that this feature will forgo much of the silliness that made both of the original flicks so fun. It remains to be seen if those in charge also intend to do away with the music though, which is what made Pocahontas so memorable to begin with. It’s also likely that Disney will try to be much more historically accurate in this reimagining. The 1995 movie played very fast and loose with the facts, thereby drawing the ire of the community they were hoping to represent onscreen.

From what we understand, this film is still in the very early stages of being made and as such, by the time it comes to fruition years from now, the public may already be burned out on all of these remakes. Pocahontas is actually one of the few flicks that deserves another shot though. While there’s plenty to like about the original, there are also a lot of flaws that can hopefully be ironed out in a remake with help from the Native American community.
Source: https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/dis ... as-remake/

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:43 am 
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So Pocahontas will be about 13 years old and she won't have a romantic relationship with John Smith?
I wonder if Mulan has a huge outcry from Chinese if Disney will just not try with this...

I'm at the point where all my favorite movies are just now having their remakes come out or announced...I am interested in the look of them, and for TLK, the technology, but I don't watch the majority of them. I don't want repeats of my faves. I just want original movies. :(

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:14 am 
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I wouldn't mind a Pocahontas film, as long as the music is included. I mean, the soundtrack may be the only reason to be interested in my case, with this one. If people are unsatisfied with the Mulan remake still, there's going to be no satisfying anyone with this film, whatever they do. :lol: It was the only film I actually remember being criticized while I was child and it was first out, from historical inaccuracies, racist tropes, down to plain ol' story criticisms (boring romance and romantic leads, uninteresting villain, "not as good as The Lion King" ad nauseum). I personally liked Ratcliffe for what he was + Wiggins, and Stiers did a great job, imo, but he is probably the weakest villain of the '90s films aside from Clayton, imo. And he's incredibly cartoony compared to the other characters.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:32 pm 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
I wouldn't mind a Pocahontas film, as long as the music is included.


But how do you manage to tell a story that is more faithful to history by keeping the 1995-songs?..

Edit: Oh wait you mean the instrumentals like they did with Mulan?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:19 pm 
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Clindor wrote:
But how do you manage to tell a story that is more faithful to history by keeping the 1995-songs?

More faithful doesn't mean a documentary. There are aspects that can be more accurate like omitting Grandmother Willow or turning her into a human, eliminating the animal sidekicks and their slapstick humor, introducing more historically accurate customs and traditions of the Powhatan tribe...Stuff like that. But you can't expect Disney to change the basic premise of the legend of Pocahontas. Pocahontas' real life story is not family-friendly tentpole material.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:30 pm 
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I'm not sure Disney will ever actually make this but I'll be all for it since this is one of my favorites. Would love to see songs like Colors of the Wind and Just Around the Riverbend in live-action and I'd love to see Menken pen new songs for this. Too bad they probably wouldn't reinsert In the Middle of the River.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:39 pm 
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Sotiris wrote:
More faithful doesn't mean a documentary. There are aspects that can be more accurate like omitting Grandmother Willow or turning her into a human, eliminating the animal sidekicks and their slapstick humor, introducing more historically accurate customs and traditions of the Powhatan tribe...Stuff like that. But you can't expect Disney to change the basic premise of the legend of Pocahontas. Pocahontas' real life story is not family-friendly tentpole material.

Well, now that you're bringing this issue up: If there's elements that would serve a change in a live action remake, is to either humanize Grandmother Willow or (gasp) replace her with an actual mother to our titular lead. The language barrier needs to be executed in a more realistic way and the animal sidekicks could be toned down. To be honest, I'm less against the animal sidekicks, since for all their purposes serve an actual purpose to the main storyline. Yet despite this, I think there's are segments in the script that could've been tighten up, especially in the second and third act: The way Smith is captured by the Natives at the end and how he actually gets shot happens in too contrived way.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:55 pm 
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DisneyFan09 wrote:
Well, now that you're bringing this issue up: If there's elements that would serve a change in a live action remake, is to either humanize Grandmother Willow or (gasp) replace her with an actual mother to our titular lead. The language barrier needs to be executed in a more realistic way and the animal sidekicks could be toned down. To be honest, I'm less against the animal sidekicks, since for all their purposes serve an actual purpose to the main storyline. Yet despite this, I think there's are segments in the script that could've been tighten up, especially in the second and third act: The way Smith is captured by the Natives at the end and how he actually gets shot happens in too contrived way.

I'd love to see Grandmother Willow as an actual human. If they want a spirit for her, they could always bring back Old Man River who was originally supposed to be a mentor figure for her before Disney felt a maternal figure would work better. I'm not sure they'd include her mother now because that was the original plan for the animated film as well. They wanted to address concerns they received from the public about the lack of mothers for Ariel, Belle, Aladdin, and Jasmine but they realized that the Powhatan lived in a polygamous society so Pocahontas' mother was quickly discarded.

Most of the live-action remakes feature less of the animal characters anyway so I would expect that to occur here as well. The language barrier should be implemented like in Tarzan although I do think the "listen with your heart" is quite a romantic part of the film, as unrealistic as it is, but it likely works better in animation than in live-action.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:55 pm 
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Sotiris wrote:
Clindor wrote:
But how do you manage to tell a story that is more faithful to history by keeping the 1995-songs?

More faithful doesn't mean a documentary.


You mean you can tell a story with songs?... Now slow down for a second, I believe you we are really going too fast for us :shock: We are probably just dummies around here, and what you are doing is a typical case of elevating the conversation too soon, too fast. Here's another thought: maybe a seemingly ecological-friendly song that makes us wonder what constitute a blue corn moon or why should we assume that a bobcat would literally grin is kind of missing the point when attempting to evoke the life of a historical figure such as Pocahontas.. Or maybe another song about a bunch of greedy white men fantasizing about finding gold while in reality those people had better reasons to be concerned to find ways that may save them from STARVING to death is not the smartest way you could think of to be historically accurate. So maybe, just maybe, if you intent to be as little as half-faithful toward History, those songs aren't a good starting point to tell THIS story (regardless of how beautiful they are and of how much we appreciate them) and we all know that by now.

Sotiris wrote:
But you can't expect Disney to change the basic premise of the legend of Pocahontas.


Wait, what ?...

Hum... it just happened in 1995, right? Surely you heard of a little controversy? I don't really think it is about what I expect... it is more about what Disney already did. Whether you appreciate this movie as a not faithful representation of historical events is another matter (I personally do: it's a really good Disney musical from the 90's, just not historically accurate). But I'm not responsible for Disney when it comes of changing the basic premise

Sotiris wrote:
Pocahontas' real life story is not family-friendly tentpole material.


So? That just proves my point even more. How are the songs supposed to help in that matter?
Don't take me wrong: I am certainly not expecting Disney to portrait centuries of oppression and genocide. Or the fact that Pocahontas was only twelve when she first met John Smith. I believe it would be someone else's job. But the songs aren't here to help to take seriously another potential Pocahontas movie.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:33 am 
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Clindor wrote:
How are the songs supposed to help in that matter? Don't take me wrong: I am certainly not expecting Disney to portrait centuries of oppression and genocide. Or the fact that Pocahontas was only twelve when she first met John Smith. I believe it would be someone else's job. But the songs aren't here to help to take seriously another potential Pocahontas movie.

The existence of songs doesn't make a film less serious. People need to stop equating musicals with lighthearted frivolousness. Musicals can tackle any kind of theme and subject matter. If the basic premise of the film remains the same, the songs fit perfectly. In fact, the songs are incredibly progressive and respectful of Native culture. There's nothing offensive about them.

In any case, the point is moot as Disney probably won't be making this. Even if it was greenlit, the amount of backlash would cause them to cancel it. People who oppose a movie based on the romanticized legend of Pocahontas would still oppose it no matter what Disney does. Anything short of a bleak and gruesome indie-like biopic would be anathema to them. But those kind of movies don't become blockbusters. The only way for a potential remake to be successful is to cater to fans of the original with some minor changes like the ones I mentioned and ignore the dissent. Something Disney doesn't seem willing to do.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:21 am 
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Didn’t Alan Menken say at one of the Aladdin press events or purple carpets that Pocahontas was the one he didn’t expect to be remade as it would be too sensitive? I’m sure I remember that.

I guess it could have changed in the last 2 months but not convinced we’ll see this one done for stage or live action at this point.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:59 pm 
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Sotiris wrote:
In any case, the point is moot as Disney probably won't be making this. Even if it was greenlit, the amount of backlash would cause them to cancel it. People who oppose a movie based on the romanticized legend of Pocahontas would still oppose it no matter what Disney does. Anything short of a bleak and gruesome indie-like biopic would be anathema to them. But those kind of movies don't become blockbusters. The only way for a potential remake to be successful is to cater to fans of the original with some minor changes like the ones I mentioned and ignore the dissent. Something Disney doesn't seem willing to do.

You mean the amount of backlash that TLM has just gotten with casting a black Ariel? Or the backlash Aladdin got for casting a half-Indian Naomi Scott or Will Smith as the Genie, or even over the visual effects?

I think people need to remember Terrence Malick's The New World which was cited as one of the best films of the entire decade. That was supposedly more historically accurate to the original Pocahontas but even then, she was in a relationship with John Smith. Yet, no one argued about historical accuracy then, the way that the Disney film got flack.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:13 pm 
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ChrisLyne wrote:
Didn’t Alan Menken say at one of the Aladdin press events or purple carpets that Pocahontas was the one he didn’t expect to be remade as it would be too sensitive? I’m sure I remember that.

Yes, he did. More than once, actually.

JeanGreyForever wrote:
You mean the amount of backlash that TLM has just gotten with casting a black Ariel? Or the backlash Aladdin got for casting a half-Indian Naomi Scott or Will Smith as the Genie, or even over the visual effects?

I believe the backlash would be much much worse than any of that. Even this rumor started getting people on Twitter and Tumblr all riled up.

JeanGreyForever wrote:
I think people need to remember Terrence Malick's The New World which was cited as one of the best films of the entire decade.

I don't know where you're getting that. It received mixed reviews and it was quickly forgotten.

JeanGreyForever wrote:
That was supposedly more historically accurate to the original Pocahontas but even then, she was in a relationship with John Smith. Yet, no one argued about historical accuracy then, the way that the Disney film got flack.

That movie was criticized as well for its historically inaccuracies but of course not as much as Disney's version. Disney films always get disproportionately criticized than movies from other studios. People just love to hate Disney and overscrutinize their product.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:19 pm 
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Sotiris wrote:
People who oppose a movie based on the romanticized legend of Pocahontas would still oppose it no matter what Disney does.
Even Mulan, Aladdin, and Hunchback have received criticism related to racist portrayals and/or problematic casting choices. Those are going to be small potatoes compared to how people would react to a Pocahontas re-make. I once ended up in an argument just for wanting the animated Pocahontas to appear as a world in Kingdom Hearts; I imagine it will be something akin to that x500 and on a national scale. :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:44 pm 
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Sotiris wrote:
I believe the backlash would be much much worse than any of that. Even this rumor started getting people on Twitter and Tumblr all riled up.

Oh wow, I didn't realize just the slightest suggestion of this film was enough to get it trending on Twitter.

Sotiris wrote:
I don't know where you're getting that. It received mixed reviews and it was quickly forgotten.

I'm going by the wiki page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_World_(2005_film)
The work was initially met with an only mildly positive critical response, although several critics later ranked it as one of the best films of the decade.
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In November 2009, Time Out New York ranked the film as the fourth-best of the decade, saying:

The particular power of this tone poem comes from how quietly resigned both characters are to their fates, as if they sense a guiding hand in their every action. The final passages of Malick's idyll, after Pocahontas takes a fateful ocean journey, are the finest work of his career, most notably in his portrayal of the princess's death and transfiguration—a shattering five-minute sequence that never fails to move."[13]

In January 2010, Mick LaSalle of the San Francisco Chronicle designated it the No. 1 film of the decade.

Terence Malick's one-of-a-kind film, about the life of Pocahontas and the dawn of American history, contains some of the best filmmaking imaginable – some of it beyond imagining. I have seen it at least five times and have no idea how Malick knew, when he put it all together, that the movie would even make sense. It's difficult to write a great short poem. It's difficult to write a great long novel. But to write a great long poem that's the size of a great long novel – one that makes sense, doesn't flag and is exponentially better than the short poem or the long novel ever would have been – that's almost impossible. Malick did it. With images.[14]

The French film magazine Cahiers du cinéma ranked the film as 9th place in its list of best films of the décade 2000-2009.[15]

Film and television critic Matt Zoller Seitz has said it is his favorite film.[16]

In The Guardian, John Patterson writes that The New World "doesn't have fans, just fanatics":

This decade hasn't been up to much, movie-wise, but I am more than ever convinced that when every other scrap of celluloid from 2000-2009 has crumbled to dust, one film will remain, like some Ozymandias-like remnant of transient vanished glory in the desert. And that film is The New World, Terrence Malick's American foundation myth, which arrived just as the decade reached its dismal halfway point, in January 2006. [...] The New World is a bottomless movie, almost unspeakably beautiful and formally harmonious. The movie came and went within a month, and its critical reception was characterised for the most part by bafflement, condescension, lazy ridicule and outright hostility. [...] Its siblings are to be found throughout movie history and across all national and stylistic boundaries, from the silents to Jean-Luc Godard, James Benning and Stan Brakhage, or in Winstanley and Barry Lyndon. Its cultural hinterland is made up not just of other movies, but of Buddhism, ethnography and naturalism, Wagner, Mozart and the structural forms of classical music, Malick's enthusiasm for bird-watching, and a helping of Heidegger and Kant [...] It is both ancient and modern, cinema at its purest and most organic, its simplest and most refined [...].[17]

In a contribution to The cinema of Terrence Malick: Poetic visions of America, film scholar Mark Cousins writes:

By the end of The New World, it seemed to me, I had experienced something like a Bach's Mass in B minor or a poem by Percy Bysshe Shelley. It was about rapture and the end of rapture. It showed me seeing. It made me sensible.

In a 2016 international critics' poll conducted by BBC, The New World was voted the 39th-greatest film since 2000.[18]


Sotiris wrote:
That movie was criticized as well for its historically inaccuracies but of course not as much as Disney's version. Disney films always get disproportionately criticized than movies from other studios. People just love to hate Disney and overscrutinize their product.

The Pocahontas/Smith relationship got some criticism but not nearly as much as the Disney film got, as you said. It's a shame really that Disney gets so much flack.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:07 pm 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
Even Mulan, Aladdin, and Hunchback have received criticism related to racist portrayals and/or problematic casting choices. Those are going to be small potatoes compared to how people would react to a Pocahontas re-make. I once ended up in an argument just for wanting the animated Pocahontas to appear as a world in Kingdom Hearts; I imagine it will be something akin to that x500 and on a national scale. :lol:

Oh, yeah. The Internet would explode. It would start on social media, then spread on mainstream outlets and publications, culminating in threats of boycotts. It would be relentless.

JeanGreyForever wrote:
Oh wow, I didn't realize just the slightest suggestion of this film was enough to get it trending on Twitter.

Yep. From the little I bothered looking through it, all sorts of outlandish accusations started firing up. Some people even went as far as claiming that a remake would mean Disney is exploiting rape and trafficking survivors. I'm not exaggerating.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:10 pm 
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I was thinking there's no way they could adapt this one. Adapt the 1995 film scene by scene ala Aladdin, and they get a controversy the size Disney hasn't seen yet; turn it into a new movie or make it historically accurate, Disney won't rely on the nostalgia aspect to sell it to millennials like they've done with the other remakes.

Plus something weird, like mixing the songs with new story elements just won't blend well. The songs in Disney films are tied to the story, and adding them to different story points will just make them sound weird. If I Never Knew You goes out the window if Pocahontas will be 13 and no romance with John Smith, Savages would have to be reworked from scratch if they change the third act (or even if they keep Ratcliffe).

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:23 am 
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thedisneyspirit wrote:
Plus something weird, like mixing the songs with new story elements just won't blend well. The songs in Disney films are tied to the story, and adding them to different story points will just make them sound weird.

I agree, that's why I think they couldn't have added the songs to the live-action Mulan, even if they had wanted to after changing the story so much. I personally don't believe the news that they are planning to make a Pocahontas remake, at least not right now after what Alan Menken said just some weeks ago.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:37 am 
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D82 wrote:
I agree, that's why I think they couldn't have added the songs to the live-action Mulan, even if they had wanted to after changing the story so much.

But the basic story didn't change. She still goes to the matchmaker where she could sing Honor to Us All, she still comes back disappointed where she could sing Reflection, she still gets training where Commander Tung or Sergeant Qiang could sing I'll Make a Man Out of You (this one might have required some lyric changes). It's the tone that has changed the most but I still believe songs could work if the arrangement was changed to match the tone more.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:14 am 
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I agree, all of the songs except for “A Girl Worth Fighting For” could still work in Mulan as it is. The story for that one didn’t change dramatically, imo. All they did is cut all of the comic relief.

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