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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:18 am 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
farerb wrote:
He hasn't been the man who made those jokes a long time now

I'm not sure what you have to base that on. Either way, I wasn't even upset that he was re-hired, only wanted to be clear that there was nothing "unfair" or "mob mentality" about his initial firing either, so re-direct your ire elsewhere.


It wasn't for you specifically, but of course you would want to make it personal


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:27 am 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
farerb wrote:
He hasn't been the man who made those jokes a long time now

I'm not sure what you have to base that on. Either way, I wasn't even upset that he was re-hired, only wanted to be clear that there was nothing "unfair" or "mob mentality" about his initial firing either, so re-direct your ire elsewhere.

How was it not? The jokes have been public for years. It was no secret. It just kinda faded away for a while, then the mobs/twitter dug it up again and disney made a snap decision to fire him.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:50 am 
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It wasn't for you specifically, but of course you would want to make it personal

"You do realize..." You didn't quote Sotiris who was 4 posts before you and the only other person you could be referring to was me who had posted right before you, so what would you expect me to do? Read your mind?

Kyle wrote:
How was it not? The jokes have been public for years. It was no secret. It just kinda faded away for a while, then the mobs/twitter dug it up again and disney made a snap decision to fire him.

"Mob mentality" implies he was entirely innocent and never made the statements. Good for Disney giving him a job back, but it's not like they were in the wrong for firing him.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:08 am 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
Quote:
It wasn't for you specifically, but of course you would want to make it personal

"You do realize..." You didn't quote Sotiris who was 4 posts before you and the only other person you could be referring to was me who had posted right before you, so what would you expect me to do? Read your mind?

Kyle wrote:
How was it not? The jokes have been public for years. It was no secret. It just kinda faded away for a while, then the mobs/twitter dug it up again and disney made a snap decision to fire him.

"Mob mentality" implies he was entirely innocent and never made the statements. Good for Disney giving him a job back, but it's not like they were in the wrong for firing him.


"You" was ment as plural.
Anyway it is wrong to fire him if they hired him with the knowledge of those tweets. They either don't hire him in the first place or don't fire him just because a Far-Right person brings those up again and makes a fuss out of it just to get him fired.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:38 am 
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Have the people defending him actually read everything he said? It's horrifying stuff. You can't reduce them to mere distasteful jokes, in my opinion. It wasn't once or twice that it happened either; it was an avalanche of comments. And it's not like he didn't know better. He was in his 40s and already part of the industry. I honestly don't understand why people (not referring to this board specifically but in general) defend him so ardently. Being indifferent about the situation I get but to go out of your way to defend him? There seems to be a double standard for some reason. Celebrities have been vilified and lost their job for much less and people are not only fine with that but actually demand it.

I'm not even saying he should be blacklisted or never work again in Hollywood. I'm simply saying Disney in particular shouldn't be associated with him anymore.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:21 am 
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I think the key difference here is that the entire cast, especially Dave Bautista, stood up for Gunn. Other movie directors, including ones who have worked at Marvel, also felt he was wrongfully fired. I remember somebody Tweeting to Edgar Wright, Taika Waititi and Lord & Miller that they should direct Guardians 3 and all of them responded by suggesting James Gunn would be a better fit. It's also been widely reported that Kevin Feige didn't approve of Disney firing him.

These were terrible, off colour jokes made years ago and Gunn himself has acknowledged how terrible they are. Gunn started his career at Troma, which is known for cheap and shocking humour, so him making these jokes isn't surprising. But Gunn has clearly moved on from that style of humour long before the alt-righters resurfaced them. Obviously, he shouldn't have made them in the first place. But I think any person has made inappropriate jokes they look back on and cringe, whether as an adult or during your teenage years. The key is learning that was wrong and changing behaviour accordingly, which he did so long ago. That's one of many things that separates Gunn from people like Lasseter, Weinstein, Bryan Singer. Those people knew their actions were wrong and knew they were hurting people, but they still repeatedly did those things. And unlike them, Gunn doesn't appear to have hurt a single person.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:51 am 
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I, too, believe it was Kevin Feige who exerted his influence and convinced Disney to rehire Gunn.

Again, I never compared Gunn to Weinstein and the like so I don't understand why you keep bringing them up. Also, just because they were words doesn't mean they weren't hurtful or harmful. Roseanne and Kevin Hart also made offensive comments for which they apologized and never physically hurt anyone yet people aren't so forgiving of them (and rightfully so). There's definitely a hypocritical double standard in how Gunn has been treated by the industry. None of the excuses I've heard so far of how different and special his case is has convinced me otherwise.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:47 pm 
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Rosanne did nothing to distance herself from her comments and continues to spiral into insanity to this day. How do you not see the difference between that and Gunn who apologized years ago? Kevin hart shouldn't have been fired either imo.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:24 am 
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Kyle wrote:
Kevin hart shouldn't have been fired either imo.

And aside from not hosting the Oscars, Kevin Hart's career wasn't the least bit affected. His new movie "The Upside" was a box-office hit, he's currently filming the next "Jumanji" sequel and he recently signed a multi-year contract with Lionsgate, including getting to star in the long-in-development "Monopoly" movie.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:53 pm 
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Everyone, people make mistakes. It's a fact of life. Do we say stupid things? Sure. Do we eventually regret them most of the time? Of course. Point is, what's done is done.

And people, James Gunn is back! Can't we be happy with the fact he's back to direct GOTG 3?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:14 pm 
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Sotiris wrote:
Again, I never compared Gunn to Weinstein and the like so I don't understand why you keep bringing them up.
I guess when you want to argue that something bad someone did isn't really bad at all, you need to prop them up next to someone who did much, much worse to make the argument viable.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:43 am 
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I think people compared Gunn to other people because Sotiris said there is a double standard, comparing him to other people, right?

My stance on this is the guy apologized and Disney already knew he made the comments and apologized so he shouldn't have been fired in the first place. I also feel lots of people who have lost their jobs should be forgiven or allowed a chance to apologize and be forgiven and not be fired. That is a general way I feel, not specific to anybody.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:26 am 
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I'm surprised you feel this way, Duster. Don't you think the things he said will taint Disney's public image? Would you still be OK with him if he were to direct an animated feature at Disney? How can you be upset by Sarah Silverman's stand up routine and deem her unsuitable to voice a Disney character but not by James Gunn?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:30 pm 
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estefan wrote:
I think the key difference here is that the entire cast, especially Dave Bautista, stood up for Gunn.
There have been a lot of co-workers who have stood up to defend complete monsters over the years (Lasseter included). That really has no bearing on whether or not someone is innocent or deserves to be fired.

estefan wrote:
And aside from not hosting the Oscars, Kevin Hart's career wasn't the least bit affected.

Is that supposed to be a good thing? That someone can joke that they'd break a dollhouse over their gay son's head and nothing happens in response? Talk about a cold-blooded way of looking at things. And he wasn't fired from the Oscars. He was asked to apologize, he refused and stepped down instead. Shocker that when you say something homophobic--or many things that are homophobic--you might be held to apologize for it more than once in your career. And if you are truly apologetic, why would it bother you to address those comments for a second, third, fiftieth time?

I believe in being forgiving to those who at most made horrible comments or jokes. That doesn't mean going so far as pretending like those stupid comments or jokes were nothing at all in the first place or that the anger over them is somehow misguided when it isn't. And, ultimately, for companies like Disney, it's never a matter of right and wrong, it's a matter of what they feel they can get away with. That's not something worth cheering over.

Anyway, saw this article, which speaks to that point:

Disney never even looked for a replacement for James Gunn
https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a2685 ... placement/

I'm not surprised. Like with Lasseter, they played a waiting game to see if the storm would blow over or not. They don't really feel any particular way about any controversy, whether it's foot in mouth or rape or what have you; they only want to know if public reaction might come in the way of their money in some way if they keep the problematic person employed or not.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:50 pm 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
I believe in being forgiving to those who at most made horrible comments or jokes. That doesn't mean going so far as pretending like those stupid comments or jokes were nothing at all in the first place or that the anger over them is somehow misguided when it isn't. And, ultimately, for companies like Disney, it's never a matter of right and wrong, it's a matter of what they feel they can get away with. That's not something worth cheering over.

Exactly. I'm unable to fathom how can the same people be upset by Kevin Hart's homophobic jokes but not by the equally homophobic and misogynistic jokes by James Gunn. I think they're giving him a pass because he was exposed by conservatives as payback for criticizing Trump. But that shouldn't matter. Who or why they exposed him is irrelevant. What matters is the appalling things he said that are being swept under the rug by the same people who claim to care about marginalized communities. James Gunn is literally being rewarded for what he said. He now has two big tentpoles to write and direct instead of one. What message does that give?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:16 pm 
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Own up to your mistakes in a genuine way and people will forgive you? The dude fell on his sword every step of the way, even before he was hired the first time.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:34 am 
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Sotiris wrote:
I'm surprised you feel this way, Duster. Don't you think the things he said will taint Disney's public image? Would you still be OK with him if he were to direct an animated feature at Disney? How can you be upset by Sarah Silverman's stand up routine and deem her unsuitable to voice a Disney character but not by James Gunn?

I hate to admit it, but I have since changed my view on people who say edgey, rude, gross, or even offensive things not being able to work at Disney. I have to accept Sarah Silverman doing a Disney character. But I still don't like Wreck it Ralph's movies or characters, actually, and wish Disney never made them. I enjoyed watching the movies, but I don't like them being Disney Animated Classics, they just don't feel right that way to me. I'm complicated. I would not think James Gunn would be a good choice to do a Disney Animated Classic, but I guess I could be surprised. To answer your question better, I would not want him to write or direct a Disney animated film, or even a Disney live-action film, but I suppose he could surprise me and do a film that feels Disney, if anything is possible? The Marvel films are not Disney to me, even though Disney owns them, so that's why I accept him doing those.

By the way Kevin Hart actually did apologize after he stepped down from the Oscars.

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