Disney Princess Criticism - What's Your Opinion?

[Farerb]

It reminds me of arguments against the Beast that he planned to have Belle starved. But no he didn't he was just angry and said stupid things he didn't really mean. Same thing with Jasmine.
But those are the kind of people who can't understand nuance.

[DC Fan]

I tried to quote JeanGreyForever but I couldn´t.

If the criticism comes from the outfits/costumes of superheroines... how come there aren´t any complains regarding the tight costumes of men? Where was the outrage of the many times Chris Hemsworth, Henry Cavill or Jason Momoa appeared shirtless? There were none. If anything the opposite. Women drooling over them.

I remember the outrage of how some Amazons were portrayed in Justice League (as they wore more revealing outfits); when even the actresses didn´t mind as they wanted to show their built bodies. Yet, where was the same outrage when Superman resurrects shirtless? He was fully dressed before. If anything THIS was a reason to complain since it made no sense; you could say that some Amazons needed more open armor in order to move freely but why did Superman had to be shirtless?

[JeanGreyForever]

I don't really watch DC films so I'm not as familiar with some of the specific scenes you've mentioned but as a comic reader, I know that a lot of the female characters wear very skimpy outfits. Captain Marvel's original outfit as Ms. Marvel had a bare midriff and bare legs and her second iconic outfit was basically a swimsuit. Ninja characters like Elektra and Psylocke literally wear bathing suits with weird leg and arm strappings which aren't practical at all. So in the comics, these female characters got criticized a lot for being used more as eye candy than anything else.

In the movies, they've mainly evaded that so far as we've seen with Captain Marvel's superhero outfit. I remember people were happy with the Amazons in Wonder Woman because they wore body armor but they weren't half-naked like in the comics or TV shows. I didn't watch Justice League but from your description it sounds like they changed the outfits to make them more revealing so maybe that's why people complained because they felt they looked more appropriate and more like real warriors in the Wonder Woman film rather than glorified eye candy.

I don't remember any female character like Black Widow or Mera getting criticism for wearing clothing too tight for them. There are more male superheroes than female ones on screen so maybe that's why we see them more often shirtless compared to female ones being scantily clad. Usually these male ones are also the leads of their films so we see more scenes of them in their personal life or in pivotal moments whereas Black Widow is a supporting character for example.

[DC Fan]

There are female costumes that make no sense. More so translated to the movies as you mention. But there are still others that have to be that way. Wonder Woman and the Amazons for instance.

The Amazons are warriors living on an island. They won't be wearing a traditional knight armor for instance. In the case of Wonder Woman they designed the costume as to what a Greco-Roman warrior would wear...and makes total sense since Wonder Woman is based on Greek mythology.

My point is that there shouldn't be any complaints of what women were in these superhero movies when men were also tight costumes and in many instances appear shirtless.

...if that wasn't the case then I'd agree.

[thedisneyspirit]

Yeah, Duster, I meant to say that according to those thoughts Cinderella and Charming liked each other at first and got along well, and that's more "romantic" than every couple after them bickering with one another. Which I don't get that criticism directed at Aladdin and Jasmine, of all people? The first scene they meet one another they're on very good terms. Of course, this person also thinks Ariel is a Manic Pixie Dream Girl created to "fix" Eric out of his depression, so I dunno. Maybe she lives on another plane of reality where her version of Disney films are different than the ones we watch.

[Disney Duster]

Oh, you know, that is one thing. I like how romantic it is when couples like each other instantly upon meeting, and it becomes love, even if in real life it is not love nearly as fast as it is for these animated characters. I think I learned that people who end up in long-lasting relationships usually do like each other at first, and more often find love, too, than people who don't like each other at first. I am not even sure if the people not liking each other at first has ever produced a forever lasting romance. I'm sure lots of people here could tell me!

I think the people writing those articles really do realize that the relationships in later Disney movies are better, but they badly want their favorite relationships to be the best ones.

[JeanGreyForever]

Yeah, Duster, I meant to say that according to those thoughts Cinderella and Charming liked each other at first and got along well, and that's more "romantic" than every couple after them bickering with one another. Which I don't get that criticism directed at Aladdin and Jasmine, of all people? The first scene they meet one another they're on very good terms. Of course, this person also thinks Ariel is a Manic Pixie Dream Girl created to "fix" Eric out of his depression, so I dunno. Maybe she lives on another plane of reality where her version of Disney films are different than the ones we watch.

Ew, I hate manic pixie dream girls and Ariel being equated with one of them is just ugh. Most of the 90s couples didn't really bicker though. Belle/Beast, Esmeralda/Phoebus, and Mulan/Shang are the only main ones unless you count Jasmine/Ali (rather than Jasmine/Aladdin). The Revival era is the one which heavily reinforced this trope. Not surprised that this Aurora fan would somehow feel that all the 90s couples really hate each other though.

Oh, you know, that is one thing. I like how romantic it is when couples like each other instantly upon meeting, and it becomes love, even if in real life it is not love nearly as fast as it is for these animated characters. I think I learned that people who end up in long-lasting relationships usually do like each other at first, and more often find love, too, than people who don't like each other at first. I am not even sure if the people not liking each other at first has ever produced a forever lasting romance. I'm sure lots of people here could tell me!

I think the people writing those articles really do realize that the relationships in later Disney movies are better, but they badly want their favorite relationships to be the best ones.

I have no problem whatsoever with love-at-first sight romances in films. They're generally some of the sweetest of couples as seen in the classic couplings. I think people who hate on them are just jealous because they never found that in their own lives lol so they can't stand to be reminded of that.

[Disney Duster]

Hm, I don't know if it is because they are jealous. I don't think many people fall in love at first sight. But like I said, I think most couples like each other at first meeting.

Belle kind of fits the description of a manic pixie dream girl...

[Farerb]

Belle really isn't. She doesn't have a quirky personality and she isn't set out to fix the Beast or be his "dream girl". She has desires of her own and she cares about other people like her father.

[Tristy]

Yeah, Duster, I meant to say that according to those thoughts Cinderella and Charming liked each other at first and got along well, and that's more "romantic" than every couple after them bickering with one another. Which I don't get that criticism directed at Aladdin and Jasmine, of all people? The first scene they meet one another they're on very good terms. Of course, this person also thinks Ariel is a Manic Pixie Dream Girl created to "fix" Eric out of his depression, so I dunno. Maybe she lives on another plane of reality where her version of Disney films are different than the ones we watch.

Ew, I hate manic pixie dream girls and Ariel being equated with one of them is just ugh. Most of the 90s couples didn't really bicker though. Belle/Beast, Esmeralda/Phoebus, and Mulan/Shang are the only main ones unless you count Jasmine/Ali (rather than Jasmine/Aladdin). The Revival era is the one which heavily reinforced this trope. Not surprised that this Aurora fan would somehow feel that all the 90s couples really hate each other though.

Oh, you know, that is one thing. I like how romantic it is when couples like each other instantly upon meeting, and it becomes love, even if in real life it is not love nearly as fast as it is for these animated characters. I think I learned that people who end up in long-lasting relationships usually do like each other at first, and more often find love, too, than people who don't like each other at first. I am not even sure if the people not liking each other at first has ever produced a forever lasting romance. I'm sure lots of people here could tell me!

I think the people writing those articles really do realize that the relationships in later Disney movies are better, but they badly want their favorite relationships to be the best ones.

I have no problem whatsoever with love-at-first sight romances in films. They're generally some of the sweetest of couples as seen in the classic couplings. I think people who hate on them are just jealous because they never found that in their own lives lol so they can't stand to be reminded of that.

It's amazing isn't it? You hear people complaining about the "love at first sight" thing being done one too many times yet every time a subversion of that trope occurs, people praise it for being "unique and different". Even when it's been done to death at this point. Why not have a little bit of both? That way neither one of them wears out their welcome?

I have another theory. I have a hunch that some of these people who make these criticisms were picked on in school because the stuff they were into was considered "too girly" and that sort of stuck with them into adulthood.

[JeanGreyForever]

Hm, I don't know if it is because they are jealous. I don't think many people fall in love at first sight. But like I said, I think most couples like each other at first meeting.

Belle kind of fits the description of a manic pixie dream girl...

I agree that it's a rare occurrence that most people will never experience, but the amount of vitriol and contempt I hear people have for love at first sight relationships tells me that they are so hateful because it was something denied to them.

Belle really isn't. She doesn't have a quirky personality and she isn't set out to fix the Beast or be his "dream girl". She has desires of her own and she cares about other people like her father.

I agree, Belle wouldn't be characterized as a manic pixie girl at all. If there's any character in the Disney canon who would, Rapunzel comes closest to mind.

It's amazing isn't it? You hear people complaining about the "love at first sight" thing being done one too many times yet every time a subversion of that trope occurs, people praise it for being "unique and different". Even when it's been done to death at this point. Why not have a little bit of both? That way neither one of them wears out their welcome?

I have another theory. I have a hunch that some of these people who make these criticisms were picked on in school because the stuff they were into was considered "too girly" and that sort of stuck with them into adulthood.

I agree because at this point, the subversion has been long overused. Love at first sight hasn't been seen since the 90s for a Disney film so complaining that every new Disney film is so progressive for having outgrown that is really an outdated notion in itself. If anything has become tired and stale, it's the trope of of two people who constantly bicker and never get along progressing into a romantic couple. At this point, if the two are arguing, you know they'll end up together. That was groundbreaking in the 90s with films like Beauty and the Beast and Anastasia but it's pretty much a given at this point. You can even apply that to the platonic friendships like Judy/Nick and Moana/Maui.

I can definitely see your point that people might have believed this themselves at some point in their life before being turned away because of criticism.

[Disney Duster]

Ohhhh...so Belle has to have the manic personality and nothing else to her but fixing and being the dream girl of a guy. Well, I'm glad she's not one. Ariel definitely isn't one either.

I guess the hate for love at first sight may stem from never being able to have a chance at such a romance...which is sad.

It's true, progressing romances have happened so much since The Little Mermaid, it's no longer really that new or progressive.

[JeanGreyForever]

https://www.theprincessblog.org/2020/05 ... -from.html

This is a Princess blog I frequent and apparently in May of this year, Jodi Benson, Paige O'Hara, Linda Larkin, and Irene Bedard did a virtual Q&A to raise money for Give Kids the World. The blogger posted some interesting facts about each actress such as how Irene buried a time capsule at WDW for a Pocahontas event and how Linda was bullied for her distinctive voice as a child. I'd recommend fans of any of these four princesses to check it out!

There are also links in the page to donate under each actress' name. Jodi is leading in donations, followed by Linda, and then Paige and Irene are tied.

[UmbrellaFish]

I saw on Reddit somebody was doing a Princess marathon— watching all the official Disney Princess line movies in order and I thought that was an interesting idea. Last night I marathoned Walt’s girls (here’s hoping I have enough follow-through to finish all the others).

Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs- so first off, my assessment of this movie is that it’s perfect. The animation and the art direction are so beautiful. I love the muted color pallet of browns and dark greens and pale yellows. The story is so wonderfully dark and the Evil Queen’s transformation has captured my imagination ever since I was a child— I love the goblet she drinks her magic potion from.

As for Snow White herself, I was struck by how bossy and assertive she was! I always think of Snow White as this damsel in distress, but Snow White is really quite firm with those dwarfs and woodland animals (speaking of which, why so many? There must be a reason in production. It definitely looks parodic now). And why wouldn’t she act like a damsel in distress? At every turn, somebody’s trying to murder her- the Huntsman, the dwarfs when they think she’s a monster, and ultimately the Evil Queen herself. Snow White is a damsel, she’s in distress, but ultimately she’s a survivor.

Cinderella— I’ve never paid much attention to Mary Blair’s influence in Cinderella. To me, Peter Pan and Alice in Wonderland are capital B Blair films, but on this viewing I was more aware than every before of the artist’s hand in Cinderella. Overall, though, I don’t think my feelings about the movie have changed very much— there’s too much stuff with the mice, but the romantic scenes are among my favorites in any Disney movie. Cinderella dancing with the Prince at the ball to “This is Love” is just... ah...

As for the main character herself, I’ve said before that I love how spunky she is. And Cinderella has, hands down, the most beautiful princess dress. I love Ilene Woods’ voice as Cinderella— recently I searched YouTube and Apple Music to see if she had other music to listen to, but like Adriana Caselotti it seems she didn’t leave much behind besides her role as a Disney Princess. And that’s plenty enough to immortalize her.

Sleeping Beauty— Y’know, watching the movie I came to the conclusion that I just don’t like it very much (beyond Eyvind Earle’s art). The Three Good Fairies have some funny moments but overall they are such uninteresting protagonists that most viewers don’t even remember that they are the movie’s protagonists. I thought, what if the Three Good Fairies were more like Dorothy, Blanche, and Rose? That would have been fun, although their inevitable conversation about King Hubert’s sexual prowess would probably feel out of place in a Disney movie. While I’m bitching about the movie, I always think that the fairies helping Prince Philip every step of the way in defeating Maleficent makes his old fashioned knightly heroics seem quite wimpy. I wish he at least slayed the dragon on his own.

As for Aurora, she is definitely the most passive of the princesses, but again, the movie isn’t really about her (it’s about the fairies’ general incompetence). She’s the ur-Disney princess character design for the Renaissance— unlike Snow and Cindy, Aurora has a definable nose throughout the movie, she has those characteristic dorsal fin eyes, and she has long, luxurious hair which becomes almost a character in and of itself. If she wasn’t so pointy, she’d fit right in with Ariel and Belle. Mary Costa’s operatic voice is lovely and her English accent is so-so. But that’s okay, I take some small pride in all the Disney Princesses’ using American accents. And I’m also proud that Mary Costa’s casting means Tennessee has its own homegrown Disney Princess. So an iffy movie and iffy Princess but still something for me to like.

[Disney's Divinity]

I've always liked Snow White. Aurora's the only one of the Walt princesses I don't like because she's more cardboard cutout than character, although she looks gorgeous in the blue dress and tiara.

As far as Snow White being a damsel, I actually don't hate Cinderella or SW or anything. I like both characters. I don't think there's anything wrong with them. My position is usually that characters like Cinderella and SW are "problematic" only when they're the only female characters a person sees in media growing up and they're both damsels. But when you grow up with those characters alongside Pocahontas, Tiana, Elsa, Ariel, Belle, Mulan, etc., the characters feel instead like they're simply different options or story choices rather than a case of "all women are or must be like X." I think they were only problematic when they were the only major female characters Disney had, so pre-80/90's. And even then, Mulan's probably the first to have a film that didn't hinge a great deal around the romance. Alice in Wonderland is one, but it seems like only female characters below the age of puberty and/or thirty+ get to have motivations not geared simply to romance or child-rearing in Walt's day.

[UmbrellaFish]

As far as Snow White being a damsel, I actually don't hate Cinderella or SW or anything. I like both characters. I don't think there's anything wrong with them. My position is usually that characters like Cinderella and SW are "problematic" only when they're the only female characters a person sees in media growing up and they're both damsels. But when you grow up with those characters alongside Pocahontas, Tiana, Elsa, Ariel, Belle, Mulan, etc., the characters feel instead like they're simply different options or story choices rather than a case of "all women are or must be like X." I think they were only problematic when they were the only major female characters Disney had, so pre-80/90's. And even then, Mulan's probably the first to have a film that didn't hinge a great deal around the romance. Alice in Wonderland is one, but it seems like only female characters below the age of puberty and/or thirty+ get to have motivations not geared simply to romance in Walt's day.

My problem is with the Princess line. I have a love/hate relationship with it because I love the glittery merchandise that represents some of my favorite characters, but I think it was unhealthy to position a lot of these princesses as role models. Ariel is a wonderfully, humanly flawed character (that’s why we love her) but when you use slogans that tell little girls they should be like Princess Ariel, I understand where the criticisms come in.

I think if the Princess line never existed, we’d still have discussions about Disney’s representations of women and how they should grow and evolve beyond Snow White etc. but I think it would be a less hot button issue if Disney wasn’t merchandising these characters to such an obscene degree to impressionable children.

[Disney Duster]

UmbrellaFish, I really like what you wrote. I agree, Snow White really takes charge of stuff. I also always feel Cinderella was very...in charge? I mean, yeah, her whole story is about how things happen to her (because of her faith and goodness), but, I dunno, I always felt Cinderella was so...in control? I really don't know what I'm saying other than she had a head on her shoulders, I guess. Oh, and there are some videos of Ilene singing other stuff like from the album It's Late she did. Click here for an example.

[Vlad]

I'm so happy to find someone who actually likes Snow White herself. I feel that, compared to Cinderella and Aurora, Snow White actually has the most screen time and actually speaks more than the later two. The audience gets to spend time with her, and gets to love her, and finally, cheer for her when her dream comes true in the end. I find her kindness and cheerful personality lovely, and even her child-like naïveté is an endearing quality, because she tries to see the good in people, even if on the exterior, they look awful (as with the Old Hag).

[thedisneyspirit]

tbh yeah, the most you could say about the earlier princesses is that they were passive, but even comparing to other female characters from Walt's days, they're leagues above characters like Faline or Shanti, who have no personality other than "I need to make my man happy".

[blackcauldron85]

I'm so happy to find someone who actually likes Snow White herself. I feel that, compared to Cinderella and Aurora, Snow White actually has the most screen time and actually speaks more than the later two. The audience gets to spend time with her, and gets to love her, and finally, cheer for her when her dream comes true in the end. I find her kindness and cheerful personality lovely, and even her child-like naïveté is an endearing quality, because she tries to see the good in people, even if on the exterior, they look awful (as with the Old Hag).

I know I've mentioned it on the forum before, but I wanted to make you happy by giving more Snow White praise! I adore Snow White- My goal is to be more like her; sometimes in situations I try to think "What would Snow White do?!" She's graceful and kind, and she does see the good in people, as you put it. I just really love her goodness (and of course she goes through SO MUCH, so I think she's very brave).