I just came back from it, and it was as amazing as I’d hoped it would be. I definitely need to see it again (we had free tickets from blood donation, so I need to pay my $8-10 and see it again), maybe with a notebook- I had so many thoughts throughout that I can’t think of right now!
(note: “SPF” = Sugar Plum Fairy!)
nomad2010 wrote:
As for overall, it’s very clear this movie was one thing and was changed to something else midway through production.
nomad2010 wrote:
If you pay attention, you can clearly see the seams holding two different movies together. It’s very odd, and very disorienting at times.
Mooky wrote:
I can't tell if the movie's under-cooked or overcooked because it had two directors (with opposing visions, I assume)
I know I tend to love films that others see as “flawed,” but I just couldn’t notice it feeling as 2 different films because of the director switch; I thought that it flowed smoothly. Do you mind giving examples of what you felt made it feel disjointed/like 2 films?
(I’m typing as I’m going through the thread, and nomad2010 gave an example.)
nomad2010 wrote:
the end after all is done and Clara becomes queen or something along those lines. She’s wearing her silver dress and she talks to the regents of the realms and then walks forward down a hall toward what I’m assuming is a crown of people we never see? And it cuts to her back in her party dress leaving. It makes no sense. You have no idea what she was doing or why she was dressed up or what on earth was taking place that day. Just another odd casualty of the directors switching I’m assuming?
(It would’ve been nice of them to show it, but I assumed that
it was like a crowning ceremony or something...but of course I could be completely off.
Deadline article that Sotiris posted wrote:
Some blame the release date for being too early for a holiday film, arriving too soon after Halloween.
I would absolutely say that it’s not a “Christmas” film- if people are going in expecting “Christmas,” of course they will be disappointed. The adventure part of the story could be applied to any time of year; it’s just because the setting elements take place on Christmas Eve
(like, the key being a Christmas present, but really, Clara’s mom could have left her the key for her birthday, you know- but then obviously it wouldn’t have followed the traditional story. I have no issues with it not being a “true holiday” story.)
I know that some people didn’t like the
clowns, but I loved their designs, and
I don’t have a fear of clowns, and I like darker fairy tale type films...and it’s the Land of Amusements- it made sense to have clowns.
I think the
tin soldiers “died” when no one else did (besides SPF) was because Marie did not bring them to life; only her creations stayed alive (besides SPF!).
While “Clara and the Fourth Realm” may have been a more appropriate title,
Philip plays an important role; I mean, Clara would have died without him (she was falling, and he grabbed her)…
Sotiris wrote:
I'm glad they're acknowledging Fantasia even if its connection to the movie is tenuous.
The
couple times they showed the orchestra, I was so happy- it’s a nice little nod.
Sotiris wrote:
The scene didn't need exposition though. It was distracting, unnecessary, and diminished the impact of what was happening on stage.
Disney Duster wrote:
It just may be a little weird. It would not be like a movie scene. It would be like, well, stopping a movie to watch a ballet for a few minutes.
Sotiris wrote:
I think it would have been just fine. It's a a short scene, anyway. It's OK for movies to give the audience some breathing room and let them immerse themselves in the film's world. It's not necessary to constantly have dialogue or exposition. This scene doesn't need it. The concept of the four realms had already been explained before this scene so the ballet interpretation of that is self-evident.
I actually liked that
SPF was explaining to Clara...I mean, the explanations were brief, and I feel that if I were in Clara’s shoes, even if it might be self-explanatory, flowers, snowflakes, and sweets, I might still want a little explanation.
blackcauldron85 wrote:
If the characters in the Realms learn that Clara is Marie's daughter...they (or at least Phil(l)ip does!) recognize the last name Stahlbaum...would child Marie have had this name? Doubtful, unless she married someone with the same last name as her...So did Marie go back to the Realms as an adult?
Marie indeed did go back to the Realms as an adult; they knew about Clara! I wonder how/when she was able to sneak away? I guess it may not have been so hard with the way time passes in the outside world.
D82 wrote:
The explanation for how Clara's mother created the realms (through "science", if I understood it well) wasn't believable. It would've been better if she had just discovered a magical world instead.
I know I need to see it again, and I haven’t read the expanded novel (but I will!), but I think
not much explanation at all was given to how Marie created the realms, besides turning toys to living beings with the machine.estefan wrote:
I thought the music was used excellently throughout the film
I thought so, too. Especially
when Clara, Philip, & the soldiers are in the forest and the music slows down- I really liked that.
Mooky wrote:
Clara's reaction to the whole journey is baffling as well, she kind of acts like adventures like these happen to her every day and I got no sense of wonder and amazement from her.
nomad2010 wrote:
Clara has very little sense of wonder to this incredible world around her.
I didn’t think this. I definitely thought that she felt wonder. I also think that she’s a
“get down to business” kind of girl, and there pretty much was a time crunch, so she just needed to get done what she got done. But I definitely could see it in Clara’s face, when she first gets to the realms, sees Philip, the mouse/mice, sees the ballet, goes through the Realms- I felt that Clara was feeling the wonder.
nomad2010 wrote:
The biggest issue in the movie is Mother Ginger. She’s seen on screen for a whole 2 minutes before we realize she isn’t a bad guy. Even more so though is the fact that there’s no explanation how she was banished, how Sugar Plum convinced everyone she was bad, or how any of the fourth realm came to collapse and rot away.
So, when they were
in the forest, I had it in my head your quote above, but when we first
meet Mother Ginger, we didn’t know that she wasn’t evil-- Clara and Philip went to give the key to SPF.
nomad2010 wrote:
There’s also a weird minor plot about shutting down the water flowing from the castle with no explanation as to why this needs to be done.
I don’t have answers for this,
but SPF realized that something was going on inside the castle because she noticed that the water was no longer flowing; she knew that the tin soldiers weren’t the ones who had turned it off. (So, I just mentioned this to my dad, who did not see it- he said maybe
Clara did it as a sign, so SPF would go into the castle...we know that Clara couldn’t have shrunk SPF without her being in front of the machine!)
nomad2010 wrote:
Structure wise the biggest issue is that the last half of the movie is really spent in the warehouse/lab where the villain twist goes down. It’s terrible looking and feels like a million other movies I’ve seen many times. We’re in this magical world, and instead the biggest things happen in a warehouse.
I definitely see your point, but I did not have this thought when watching it. I was too involved in what was going on to have this thought.
And the warehouse is an appealing warehouse, I think. But I absolutely see what you’re saying; since we didn’t see much at all of the other 3 realms, it would’ve been more visually appealing than the warehouse. Saying that, though, it makes sense that the toy storage and shrinking machine were in a warehouse vs. just chilling in one of the realms, I suppose.
blackcauldron85 wrote:
For those of you who already saw it, how full was your theater?
I didn’t count, but my mom estimated about 25 people on a Sunday at noon.
Disney Duster wrote:
what was with Sugar Plum's stupid nonsesical motivation for doing what she did? If she just wanted to be queen, I would get it. But she felt abandoned?! And they cut her "Oh, sugar!" line?.
I felt that maybe it was a
thought of SPF’s that they’d be lost without Marie, so who better to rule than SPF, but the other regents would not allow her to, so she wanted to get rid of them? Again, I could be totally off.