Adult Cartoons

[Elladorine]

Ok, I did a search and found no threads on this particular subject, so I hope it's alright that I begin such a topic. It has recently been brought up in another thread and I feel it would be more appropriate to have a thread of its own in order to continue the discussion. I also don't feel it belongs in the anime thread since this subject goes beyond hentai, not to mention anime and manga in generral. I want to stress that I don't plan on getting explicit nor do I expect anyone else to, and anyone who wishes to reply should keep in mind the nature of the forum we're in and be respectful of it (just covering my bases here, I don't want to see heated debates flame up or have this thread get locked, lol).

At any rate, I've always loved animation, cartoons, and comics in general, and like many other fans, have felt frustrated to see the limits generally enforced on the artforms since they're broadly considered children's mediums. Fortunately, these days it seems more acceptable to explore more mature issues although I doubt it will ever equate live-action when it comes to being accepted.

It was refreshing to me to see Disney approach more mature (but not necessarily "adult") subject matters in films such as Hunchback, Pocahontas, Beauty and the Beast, etc. It also exists in the earlier features in varying degrees, although many people are still quick to dismiss it as little more than children's entertainment. I'd still love to see it pushed further but I doubt Disney will ever be comfortable in such a position.

And speaking of Disney, an old friend introduced me to some of JAB's art in the late 90's, but I had no internet myself and couldn't exactly access any sites like that in the libraries, lol. (For those not in the know, JAB is a former Disney animator that draws adult toons). When I finally got my own computer a few years later I remembered the name and found his official site. Unfortunately it was soon after much of the art I'd been curious about had to be pulled down due to legal issues, something he tried to make up for by shifting his main focus to his OC's. I fell in love with his artwork regardless. I later became a staff member of his site and a moderator for his forum, trying a hand at the genre myself before finding my niche with the not-so-explicit-yet-still-adult material I've mostly settled into these days. Not to get too personal here, but I'd had some issues in the past with my sexuality, and wow . . . creating and working with adult-based art was strangely yet amazingly therapeutic for me, making me much more comfortable with who I am and what I had to deal with in the past. It was also great to make connections with other fans and artists that that had similar interests. Heh, his forum is also where I met my current boyfriend.

Anyway, on top of being an amazingly talented artist, JAB is a pretty cool guy and rather philosophical, but a lot of people blow him off completely if they have no appreciation for the genre. I'm still blown away by the fact that I've gotten to chat with him numerous times and that he's drawn me and some of my characters. Unfortunately, I recently chose to leave his staff and no longer moderate for his forum (long story there) but I still have a lot of respect and admiration for the guy and plan on keeping in touch with him.

Interestingly, he didn't leave the free jabarchives site and create his current "comix" paysite until after the lay-offs at Disney occurred and the 2D studio was shut down, as he still wanted to make a living from his drawings (not that I blame him, lol). He once mentioned that he's not bitter about losing his job, but enjoyed his time at Disney while it lasted and appreciated the fact that losing the position opened another door for him.

Anyway, I thought this might also be a good place to discuss some other works, like some of Ralph Bakshi's films, Heavy Metal, Liquid Television and other MTV-esque series and shorts, and possibly some hentai titles that might feel out of place in the anime thread.

[littlefuzzy]

As far as Ralph Bakshi goes, I watched Fritz the Cat, and really didn't like it. It wasn't telling a good story, the animation was horrible, and the "dialogue" was recorded conversations, kind of like Creature Comforts. I have heard people say they like the dialogue, because it's natural instead of scripted, but the problem is that it often has no real bearing on the movie, or the movie tried to shoehorn it in instead of progressing the plot.

Of course, to the movie's fans, someone wanting plot progression, good animation, etc., is a big square.

I think the movie is liked primarily because it's an X-Rated cartoon, and it probably helps if you are on drugs when you watch it (which I wasn't.)

Wizards is pretty messed up, but it is easier to follow than Fritz. I have Fire & Ice, but haven't watched it yet.


=======


Since I consider puppetry to be akin to animation in some ways, Meet the Feebles should fit here as well.

One of Peter Jackson's early films, this is great fun, in a horribly demented way. Sex and violence abound, you have a fox singing the musical number "Sodomy," a rabbit thinks he's dying from "The Big One" (AIDS or some other STD), there is a machine gun massacre, and many other bits.


=======


Spike & Mike's Festival of Animation has multiple DVDs, including one called Sick and Twisted Festival of Animation. This is a compilation of short films, many of which are "sick and twisted." While I don't know if this actually includes Bambi Meets Godzilla, there are films of the same vein, and worse. I think Bambi Meets Godzilla may be on the other disc in the set: Classic Festival of Animation.


=======


Other stuff (some of these are pretty immature, but they are still meant for adults, not kids.)

Team America: World Police is a great marionette film from the creators of South Park.

Drawn Together is pretty wrong: Cross Family Guy and South Park, and gather a bunch of different animation stereotypes living in a "Big Brother" type of house for reality TV.

Quads is a Canadian show about a drunk who is paralyzed when he is hit by a rich drunk driver, who has to pay the first guy a ton of money. Personally, I didn't care for it.

Puppets Who Kill was pretty fun, I hope they bring out the rest of the seasons on DVD.

Greg the Bunny was great, I still need to get the DVDs.

TV Funhouse was another fun show, although it was live-action and puppets. I think it aired on Fox, so it probably wasn't much more explicit than Family Guy.


======


Hentai is actually a thousand times more watchable than regular porn. You have comedy, romances, mystery, thriller, horror, and just about any other genre imaginable, many of these are well-acted, well-written, and well-drawn..

Compare that to the average "plot" of American porn: "Hi, I'm here to fix your cable... OK, lets have sex!"

Hentai can be watched with a group of friends or even strangers (like at an Anime convention,) without necessarily causing embarassment, depending on the group. On the other hand, watching plain porn in a group can be uncomfortable even with your closest friends.

I have always particularly liked the comedic shows, such as Rei Rei, Magical Twilight, F3 (Frantic, Frustrated and Female,) and other shows like that.

[slave2moonlight]

Well, as I mentioned in the Rock and Rule thread, I once "discovered" Heavy Metal on cable as a kid, possibly on A&E network, a network that might not be around anymore, I'm not sure. I discovered the Evil Dead films there too, though I'm still unsure if I discovered Heavy Metal there or on TBS. Anyway, I definitely saw it again later on TBS along with American Pop, Vampire Hunter D, and Robot Carnival, and I caught some on tape along with Rock and Rule when it ran on TNT at a later date (with Heavy Metal and American Pop). What I'm getting at is, discovering these films was an awakening for me that more mature animation did exist out there besides the really badly done x-rated cartoons I had heard of but never seen (and no, I'm not talking about hentai, which often is pretty darn good, ha). Now, I may have read about films like American Pop and so on, but I hadn't seen them yet. And it's not that I didn't have respect for animation already. I have been an obsessive Disney fan for as far back as I can remember, and few things are more annoying to me than folks with that "animation is for kids" attitude, even about Disney animation, which I still think of as "for everyone", or much other animation. Why some people can't get enjoyment out of it I'll never know. But anyways...

So, yeah, though I have a strong love for wholesome, family oriented stuff, I like grittier stuff too, and animation is not only very capable of handling this beautifully, it also is fascinating to see since it is so unusual to the American eye. I do have to say though, that the idea of getting Disney involved in such material is a touchy one for me. As much as I'd love to see some Disney calibur adult animation, there is a line I like to see drawn for Disney. I do like to view the name as representative of all-ages entertainment. Though they kinda haven't stayed true to that lately anyway, gearing so much material specifically to certain age ranges, but still, it's a little different than going for "adult" stuff. But all I'm saying is, I fully approve of Disney animation evolving to be as "mature" as any of their live-action material. That I'm fine with. I loved Hunchback, Pocahontas (when the musical number was restored), and though it could have been better, I enjoy Black Cauldron as well. I just don't really want to see R rated films from Disney, not in live-action or animation, because that just doesn't seem like something Walt would approve of (and maybe I'm wrong about that, I don't know) and would change the overall idea of what a "Disney" film is. But, I WOULD love for some other studios to hire up all those fired Disney animators and go that route! I'd love to see that level of talent and quality producing more films in the vein of Rock and Rule and Heavy Metal (and hentai, but I won't hold my breath for high-quality, Disney-esque, American-produced hentai animation, ha). Or, maybe it wouldn't be so bad if Disney just came out with a new banner for more adult-geared animated films, like they have done for their live-action stuff (initially with Touchstone). Of course, they're surely too tight to even consider such a move.

Now Jab, there'd be the right guy to head an American hentai studio, ha (though it would probably have to hit the overseas market bigtime to turn a profit, Americans so widely viewing animation the way they do). I can't subscribe to any sites at the moment, so it's been a while since I've seen any of his fresh work, but from the original work I have seen, wow, it'd just be awesome to see animated (if you like that sort of stuff). I mean, his style (of course, very Disney-esque) is just right on the money for me. As I mentioned before, when he used to do other people's characters, well, that was just incredible, especially his older take on Alice. Like I mentioned in the other forum, his grown-up Alice would be my favorite cartoon character if she was an official version of Alice. As it is though, I have to stick with Ariel, Tink and Sailor Moon officially, ha. But, oh, your Kim Possible stuff, Enigmawing (and your others), right up there with Jab for me, though as you say, not as explicit. Anyway, it's sad that Jab doesn't do the well-known characters too now and then (unless I just am not aware of it, not being subscribed to his site, ha), because he was just so good and there is something a little extra attractive about characters you've loved for years and seen in full, high-quality animation... How awesome that you got to be a part of his staff for a while! I would just be happy to be part of any staff that deals in an artform I like, not the part-time gig I have right now at a sign shop that only provides DVD money for me as I still seek a way to make my own art profitable, ha. I know what you're saying about such work being therapeutic though. My comic strip has been that way for me, even if it is more Adult Swim type material and not even R rated, ha. I never thought I'd be doing a strip like that, but then I thought I'd be a rising Disney animator by now too, ha.

Incidentally, Enigmawing, I have never been allowed to use PMs here for some reason, though I can read them. Just to let you know, I've added you to my AIM buddy list (after I downloaded AIM just now, ha, so I still need to learn to use it), and have really enjoyed discussing these topics with you lately too.

[slave2moonlight]

Bakshi is an interesting subject. I have only seen some of his work. In general, I find it too ugly for my tastes, both the art and the stories, though I do LOVE American Pop (and the brunette in Cool World, ha). I own "Heavy Traffic" at the moment (even though it is not really my kind of flick; I'm just not into the inner-city street life genre) and would like to get more of his work, if only for its historical significance in the field and flat out curiosity to see it. It IS intriguing. I have yet to see Fritz the Cat or Fire and Ice, and I'd definitely like to check out Spicy City. I remember when his Mighty Mouse series was on and vaguely remember the controversy surrounding it. I still wish I'd watched it a bit more closely (I'm sure I did catch some of it). Gonna have to see what of his work I can find on YouTube. I have seen Wizards and Hey, Good Lookin', but like I said, I do find his work so... unattractive most of the time. It's fascinating in its own way though. I know what you mean about the way he likes to use the unscripted dialogue and all. It's both part of what makes his work interesting and part of what makes it feel sloppy to me. I do love it in Creature Comforts though, and I seem to recall the earlier episodes of Home Movies having a similar sound.

Haven't seen Meet the Feebles, but I've wanted to for some time. This thread, if it survives, ha, certainly is going to provide a lot of new titles for me to look into.

Yeah, most of the adult animation on TV we have here is extremely immature comedy. It can be very funny and opened animation up to more adults, but still allows people to maintain the opinion that it is a medium for the immature. It also can get a bit too preachy for me when it feels like pushing an idea (South Park is a good example, or the entire subject of Moral Orel) as an opportunity to mock people of varying beliefs sometimes a bit too harshly. Though I'm not promoting the PC viewpoint or anything, but sometimes it seems to get downright carried away and meanspirited so as to get me to roll my eyes or change the channel. Drawn Together I haven't seen enough of yet, and I'm constantly amazed at the things they get away with in terms of using the likenesses of popular characters (like Popeye), but it is really hilarious. Family Guy is probably my personal favorite of these types of shows. I was rather big on Futurama for a while too, but then I saw the same episodes too many times. Though I still love it. In fact, I hate to say it, but when I started getting into Futurama I totally abandoned The Simpsons, as I just found Futurama so much funnier, ha. Now, Robot Chicken's success I'll never understand, despite collecting toys as I do, ha. I mean, it can be funny. It can be really funny, but most of it just isn't.

And, yeah, Hentai is totally above and beyond the live-action alternative, and I'm amazed at how well-done much of it is, as if it is not even hentai. I mean, viewing it as an American, where live-action porn is barely above home movie quality (when it isn't home movie quality). It's hard to imagine such fully realized stuff in animated format, ha. Which is what makes Enigmawing and I fantasize about how it would be to see such material in the Disney style, ha! In terms of plot though, it's a delicate balance. Sometimes there is too much plot and not enough action, and as you mentioned, they have the different genres but it seems like the most abundant is the horror/violent/sci-fi/tentacle stuff, while I'm more into a more pleasant and consentual experience. A few I have seen are Magical Twilight (which I enjoyed enough to get the DVD of off Ebay), La Blue Girl (which I have in a big VHS set that I hope to eventually upgrade to space-saving DVDs), End of Summer (rather nice, I need to get this one too, though I have it recorded I think), Kama Sutra (not as high of art quality, kinda like the old Anime style from Nickelodeon), and just a few others that I forget the titles of. La Blue Girl was one of the first I ever saw, and there's a lot of that rough stuff I don't really like in it, but I love the way the girls are drawn and there are a few scenes I LOVE. But anyway, as I mentioned in the other thread about the live-action American alternative, for me the hentai has a lot more appeal largely because of the girl next door quality of the characters, plus cartoon cutesiness. I always liked the cute types the most, with big eyes and all, and I hate tattoos and implants, which are a staple of live-action now. On the bright side though, thanks to the internet I have discovered that there is a lot of new live-action stuff leaning more towards the cutesy, girl next door look. Blame Girls Gone Wild, ha. Then there's the really oldschool stuff that actually have plots and try to act like a real movie (sorta like in Boogie Nights), but with those, again, not so very attractive performers for the most part. So, yeah, Hentai is still overall the best for that genre if you want beauty, explicitness, AND plot. But if Jab helmed a feature he could really blow everyone away. I wonder if he has at least considered doing some shorts, ha. I'd certainly buy a DVD off him. He could be the Disney of hentai!

[ajmrowland]

A&E network is still around.

I'm somewhat of a Family Guy viewer. That's as close to "Adult" as my 'toon viewing gets in everyday life.

[slave2moonlight]

It is, eh? What do they even air anymore? Must be a big change from the old days, as I don't even notice A&E anymore, but I used to like it quite a bit, especially late at night.

Anyways, early this morning I watched both Fritz the Cat movies on YouTube, though there was a section of the first film removed by the site. I actually got more enjoyment from them than I expected, though I still agree with littlefuzzy's comments on the film for the most part. I think I just found the title character to be humorous enough to stay entertained, though in the sequel it was tougher because of the even more present randomness.

[DaveWadding]

Heavy Metal would have been so much better if I had viewed it in the....intended state, if you know what I mean. As it were, I just got a headache.

South Park's parody episode was pretty funny though.

[Goliath]

Hentai is actually a thousand times more watchable than regular porn. You have comedy, romances, mystery, thriller, horror, and just about any other genre imaginable, many of these are well-acted, well-written, and well-drawn..

Compare that to the average "plot" of American porn: "Hi, I'm here to fix your cable... OK, lets have sex!"

But... it's porn. Why would you want to have a plot in a porn movie anyway? If I want to see a film with a good script and good acting, I'm not popping in a porn film. And if I want to watch porn, the last thing I'm waiting for is character development or intelligent plot twists.

Hentai can be watched with a group of friends or even strangers (like at an Anime convention,) without necessarily causing embarassment, depending on the group.

I've seen hentai. I can't imagine that.

[ajmrowland]

Yeah, I'm with Goliath on this one.

[Elladorine]

Fritz the Cat is a strange trip, lol. When I was still a kid we had a copy of a book called "Great Cats" in our grade school library, and I loved checking it out and reading about Garfield, the Cheshire cat, Krazy Kat, the Chessie Cat, Morris, etc. Now I'm not sure if it was supposed to be aimed towards children, but I clearly remember an entry for Fritz, not really understanding the fact that it was supposed to be "adult" yet still being fascinated, probably because he was a character I'd never heard of. Then years later I rediscovered him in Robert Crumb's work, so when I caught the movie a few years ago I liked the segments that mimic specific moments from the comic. Other than that, the film is an overall mess and is even disliked by Crumb, prompting him to kill off Fritz in a subsequent comic, lol. It can still be interesting to watch though.

Speaking of Crumb, has anyone seen the documentary on him? Woah, crazy stuff.

I saw Wizards more recently and wasn't really sure what to make of it. It had some great segments and I enjoyed some of the character designs, but nothing really stands out to me now that I think about it. I've yet to watch Fire & Ice, but have debated on picking it up a few times as a blind purchase. I saw part of his Lord of the Rings many years ago, and all I can really remember of it is the endless rotoscoping. As for Cool World, I really liked the designs of the girls, lol. The flat backgrounds threw me for a loop though, as did the jumbled up story, but to be fair it's been a long time sinc i pulled that disc out. I've also been interested in checking out Heavy Traffic just to see what I've been missing out on.

The New Adventures of Mighty Mouse was something I really enjoyed, and I'd love to see it hit DVD. I thought it had some great moments, like their take on the Honeymooners and the obsession Oil Can Harry had over Pearl. I also loved the fact that he finally had a secret identity and normal life. Makes me wonder if the CG Mighty Mouse film is in the works. The only reason I'm hoping so is that it makes a release of the series more likely, lol. I think the controversy surrounding the scene with the flower was utterly ridiculous.

Wow, hadn't heard of Meet the Feebles yet but looked it up. I really need to check it out sometime.

If I remember right, Beavis and Butthead debuted as a short on Spike & Mike's. I recall seeing ads for the VHS's many years ago on the back of some animation magazines but never caught a glimpse of the DVD's anywhere. I'd actually taped Bambi Meets Godzilla off of Cartoon Network once (after seeing it mentioned in one of my books) and apparently someone else has made an unofficial sequel to it where Bambi gets his revenge.

Surprisingly, I've yet to see Team America but have been meaning to. I was never a big fan of South Park but I've always loved the South Park movie, probably because of the songs in it, lol.

Drawn Together is pretty hit-or-miss for me. I like the art and the concept overall, and I love the fact that Adam Corolla, Jess Harnell, and Cree Summer do voices in it but I really have to be in the right mood to watch it. I'm guessing they did everything they could to push it over the edge and I can see why so many in the industry hate it, lol.

Currently checking out Greg the Bunny now, hadn't heard of it before. Thank you Youtube!

TV Funhouse . . . that was a Robert Smigel thing, right? The same people that did the animated skits for SNL? I used to *love* Saturday TV Funhouse . . . well, depending on the skit, lol.

As for hentai titles, I remember the ones mentioned here best (Rei Rei, Magical Twilight, and F3). The main character in F3 actually reminded me a little of Sailor Mercury. I also saw Endless Summer a while back (and of all things to remember, I used to love how the VHS's themselves were crazy colors like red or blue instead of the typical black). I've also caught a few others, like Karen and a couple of *ahem* Sailor Moon parodies. And as for La Blue Girl, all I can really say is that I just don't get tenticles, lol.

As for Disney going more "adult," I think what I had in the back of my mind was the whole other banner thing, and yeah, in the same way Touchtone was created . . . I really can't see them producing an R-rated film under the Disney name, or even a PG-13 animated film under the Disney name (I know that live action is a different story, a la Pirates of the Caribbean). But along the same vein, I think it would be cool to have a Pirates animated series and allow it to be a little dark like the films. But yeah, I don't ever see them doing anything explicit with animation, and that's probably for the best.

I could almost see JAB putting a studio together, it's just too bad that animation is so much freakin' work, lol. All he's ever done for his site animation-wise are the little gifs and flash animations, and the most recent ones have the whole vector look to them (and have been animated by assistants), something I don't really feels meshes with his style (but it's easier and less expensive/time consuming to create). Oh, and I know that JAB drifted away from doing parodies of familiar characters (as I mentioned, there were legal issues invovled with a particular set that had to be remoced) but he recently released some new parody sketches. I was pretty surprised to see them, lol. I'm currently doing work for another artist named JKR, who is running a similar site. His artwork leans more towards the comic style though as opposed to the more animated look JAB has, but some of his stuff is quite fun and cartoony:





These are characters he's created for an upcoming comic series, and it's his line art, my clean-up and colors. I'll be the colorist for the actual comic as well and I'm really looking forward to what he does with these sexy superheroes.

I'm very frank and open about sex. The only reason I hold back in conversation is because I realize that it's not always appropriate to discuss and that some people are easily offended or embarrassed on the subject. Anyway, I'll take a moment to be honest about porn: it sucks, lol. Most of it is utterly boring to me and I don't get turned on in any way. But there can be something interesting about adult films in general if I can somehow get interested in and involved with the characters. That's probably why I think the parodies are so much fun, same thing with anime and other toons, somehow they're just more fun and interesting for me to relate to and identify with. Plus allowing the characters to even posses sexuality makes them more human to me. Or maybe I'm just weird, I dunno. But the point is that I can't feel anything for the characters of a film or enjoy myself in any way when they're all like, "Hi, I'm here to fix your cable . . . Ok, let's have sex!" It's only worth watching in passing if I'm in need of a good laugh.

Anyway, I think that's a big enough wall of text for now, lol. I imagine I'll be writing more later . . .

[slave2moonlight]

I knew about Fritz for a long time also because of a school library book, ha, but I believe it was this big encyclopedia of cartoon characters they had at my High School library. Sometimes I'd spend the lunch hour in there reading that or their collection of Time Life books on the unexplained. Wish I had both in my own library today. I LOVED those books! Anyway, I still remember in the Fritz section it had the image of his bathtub orgy, ha. I actually have never read any of Crumb's work, but I did see the documentary MANY years ago. I rented it and I can only remember that it was depressing, bizarre, and... well, I remember just that much I guess, ha. I wonder what was so different about the comic that made him hate the movie so much, or if he just didn't like the quality of the movie or what. I really have no idea what the comics were like, but I believe I read the first film was very popular... but that was in Wiki.

I have often been tempted to blind buy Fire and Ice as well. I used to have Cool World on VHS. Not sure if I still do. I've intended to buy the DVD for a long time, and it's one of those I have no idea how I have put off purchasing for so long. I mean, not that I love it or anything. It's a pretty awful movie, but sometimes I like awful movies and I do like the females in their animated forms. I can always relate to movies where guys fall in love with cartoon girls and love seeing 2D animation and live-action mixed, though it was badly done in Cool World. I read that Bakshi himself was unhappy about it because they rewrote it (it was supposed to be horror) and he didn't like the casting at all (Not sure about Pitt, but the other two he didn't like; I believe I read he wanted Barrymore instead of Basinger, but that sounds like a lateral move to me, ha). I still need to see the old Lord of the Rings cartoon(s?), including the Rankin/Bass Hobbit. I've seen Hobbit before, but it's been a while. Thing is, I LOVE Rankin/Bass for holiday stuff but am less into their non-holiday stuff, especially since it's mainly 2D and I tend to not like their character designs for 2D outside of the Frosty specials.

I definitely would try to pick up that Mighty Mouse show if it came out on DVD. Apparently, the artist behind Ren and Stimpy was a student of Bakshi's (or he idolized him or something), though I frankly like his work better (I forget his name). When I recently saw that new Tom and Jerry Nutcracker movie, I could tell it was his work (hope I'm not mistaken, ha). Really nicely done. I need to get the DVD.

I'm totally unfamiliar with Spike and Mike's, but I remember Beavis and Butthead having early stuff on Liquid Television. Frog Baseball and stuff like that. I also saw a few episodes of TV Funhouse in reruns late at night on Comedy Central. Can't say I remember much of it though. But, yeah, it's the Robert Smigel show and I liked TV Funhouse too, though I agree, it depended upon the episode, ha. Greg the Bunny I have long intended to check out. I'll have to search it on YouTube too! I also still need to see Team America. I don't recall if I mentioned it before, but while I sometimes love and sometimes hate South Park, I wish the South Park guys would have done more live-action. Orgazmo and Baseketball kill me! I was just watching Orgazmo the other day. Still need to get Baseketball though.

Well, I just looked up a little bit on Cream Lemon, and I'm already wondering how I can get ahold of some of it to see, ha. It sounds intriguing. Some decent Sailor Moon hentai parodies in good quality would be tops for me, but I have only seen the well-known and pretty crappy Dragonball crossover one, and this other video that could barely be called animated. Totally agree with you on the tentacle monster thing, by the way, enigmawing. Incidentally, I just recalled another Anime (non-hentai) that I have on DVD: the first DVD of "Battle Athletes". I blind bought it one day because it was cheap for an Anime, ha.

An animated Pirates of the Caribbean, especially if they would make it somewhat mature (at least as mature as Gargoyles, something we have neglected to mention so far I think, but preferably moreso even), would really be awesome! I thought they were going to go that route too, since they came out with animated style sculptures and action figures as well (need to get some of those sculptures someday when I have more space; I want the Star Wars ones too!). I guess it's never too late to come out with an animated Pirates of the Caribbean show though.

I don't have the sort of family that I could explain working at a hentai studio to, ha, but I still would be ready and willing to sign on with Jab for an entry level position if he started up a studio, ha. Though I wish I even knew how to do the gifs and flash animations, especially since I grew up convinced I was going to be an animator one day, but I have no idea even of where to find out how to do that stuff. My degree is just in 2D art because that was all they offered at the University I went to, and I haven't even been able to put that to any use. If you have any advice on how to get a paying artist gig with even a website, enigmawing, I'd really appreciate it. Right now, I'm trying anything and everything I can think of to turn a profit on my art, but the ideas are few and far between and don't seem to be working, ha. Love the new art, by the way. I had seen the second one on D.A., but I didn't realize (or forgot) that it was for another artist. Hadn't seen the blonde before. Gorgeous!

On the topic of adult film (I feel like if we say the word porn too much, this thread is going to get shut down, ha), I am not as hard to draw in as enigmawing (after all, guys usually aren't), though I tend to be far more particular about girls than the average guy, and it's no different in this matter. I am not attracted to just any female, I have a type or two that I really prefer, and the mainstream stuff usually doesn't, or at least didn't for a long time, use that look. They have finally started to (which is also a bit depressing in its own way; I prefer to think the kind of girls I like don't do that for a living or just willy nilly), but they still have a tendancy to encourage them to get way too skinny and install implants, and the girls just seem to add tattoo after tattoo on their own. The live-action adult film industry can introduce a gorgeous girl and still turn her into a complete mess in no time. Not that she was ever a fave, but if you catch Katie Morgan nowadays on HBO and compare her to how she once looked, ya gotta wonder what sort of wierd minds think her changes have been improvements! She looks totally fake and weird now. But anyway, on the net now, the genre has exploded and there are so many self run websites (or probably run by boyfriends, ha), and there is a lot more live-action stuff that appeals to me now. Which is great because I have so much time on my hands since I can't even get a job interview, ha. But still, the hentai is better. I mean, it actually is way more exciting when you get to know the characters first, and to have more believable (sort of; I mean, in terms of development) scenarios playing out. I don't like excessive plot, but it's all way more exciting with some sort of plot going on. It's the same with the real stuff on the rare occasion that you see something that has a plot, but the hentai stuff is so much more fun and interesting, and cutesy, which is what I'm more into.

[littlefuzzy]

On a side note (related to adult film stars altering their bodies,) I just turned on South Park on a late broadcast (over the air,) and there were several ads for Singles chat lines.

One of the girls had silicone lips... I'd swear they were at least a cup-size "C"!

YUCKO!

[slave2moonlight]

Ugh. I know, all that stuff grosses/weirds me out!

[Elladorine]

Crumb is very anti-commercialism and totally against "selling out," and I think he felt the film did that to his character. I'm not even sure how he agreed to the film unless it was already part of a contract he was in or something, since he's one that doesn't even like the idea of putting a character on a shirt. I guess that he and Bill Watterson are on the same wavelength when it comes to that stuff? And yeah, it's a very sad documentary, he's a bit messed up but not nearly as much as his brothers.

The artist that worked with Bakshi on Mighty Mouse that later created Ren & Stimpy is John Kricfalusi (he also worked on the 80's version of the Jetsons as well as did some character design work for Galaxy High). I used to love specific episodes of Ren & Stimpy (especially Stimpy's Inventions, one of my favorite shorts of all time) and I'd say it was targeted towards adults way back when it was new to Nickelodeon. The show really suffered when he was fired, but when he returned to the characters how many years later for Spike TV it felt like they died a little.

I once met Bill Kroyer, the director of Ferngully. At the time he was excited about the prospect of using CG as a tool for animating backgrounds and vehicles within a 2D film, but he eventually crossed fully over to CG, working on films like Cats & Dogs and the Garfield movies. Nice guy, but seemed a little bitter about Disney, his former employer (which doesn't seem all that uncommon). Anyway, the reason I bring him up was that he was developing an adult animated feature. Not the explicit kind, but more of an action-adventure thing which he called "Arrow," and if I remember right it was supposed to be rated R. His investors had insisted on seeing a trailer, which is total craziness cuz there was no finished animation. So they had to finalize character designs, come up with scenes to animate, the whole works! I got to see that trailer of the non-existent film and remember it being pretty cool, but this was like . . . 15 years ago, so I don't remember much about it other than the title. I never did hear of "Arrow" again though.

Heh heh, I'd been meaning to bring up Gargoyles but somehow didn't get around to it. It was a great series and I'd love to see Disney tackle something similar again. I'd like to see the rest of it make it to DVD as well but that might even be a further reach. But yeah, I still drool over the possibility of Pirates as an animated series; I also saw that "tooned up" maquette of Jack, as well as some of the cartoony merchandise (like a blanket I bought a few weeks ago, lol). Apparently they had planned on an animated series, but it got scrapped and we were left with nothing but a handful of the toon-stylized merchandise.

Roger Rabbit still remains one of my favorite films of all time, and I love the overall adult tone it had, even when I first watched it as a twelve-year-old. Made a nice balance with the assumptions most people make about toons, but I think my favorite aspect was the interactions between the human world and the toon one. Especially when I was a kid, I always wanted to believe that toons were somehow real, that maybe they were off in a different dimension than us or something. I got a little obsessed with drawing Jessica Rabbit way back in the day as well, to the point where I think my mom started to worry about me, lol.

Daria was probably aimed more at the teen crowd but I still consider it an adult show due to the situations and type of humor it portrayed. I'd love to see official DVD's released since it's one of my favorite shows of all time, but there's that whole issue of royalties and music.

Oh, Least I Could Do is supposed to made into a TV series! Some shorts are being shown on Youtube (which are surprisingly more explicit and controversial than the actual comic) and I especially like the song about emos. I haven't heard any info lately about the actually series airing, but last I knew it was gonna be shown in Canada and they hope to find a home for it in the US as well. I wish them luck with that as I'm rather hooked on Rayne, and I totally root for the current artist as I was familiar with his work wayyy back before he was big and was doing a lot of Disney Afternoon fan art.

Um, anyone watch Stan Lee's Stripperella? It was like a cross between The Tick and . . . hmm . . . I'm not sure, lol. I'm not a big fan of Pamela Anderson but I thought her voice was cute and had just the right touch for the role. Of her two designs, I'm not sure which one I liked better; I'm surprised I haven't drawn her yet, lol.

Anyone ever seen any of Zone's animations? Probably the closest we'll ever get to American hentai for a while, lol; he's made flash games and mini episodes starring popular characters.

slave2moonlight: Thanks for all the comments! When it comes to advice about making money off your work, I'd suggest offering commission work to start out with, but I see you've already just tapped into that at dA. For better or for worse, people are more likely to commission your work if you're willing to do adult material, even if it's just a teasing pinup. Well, at least in my experience, but I'm sure other factors have contributed to that in my case, lol. If you're comfortable with working on mature material, there are communities like WWOEC and JAB's that have attracted many artists, and some people actively look into them to set up commissions. Deviant also has their help wanted forum to check out. Other than that, all I can really suggest is to keep working hard and keep your eyes open, and look into more communities to post your art in to hopefully get noticed at, like The Drawing Board. JAB does occasionally look for people to add to his staff, and he'll typically post something in the Classifieds section of his forum when he's looking for something specific. I can't link it here of course, but if you go to his official site you'll be able to find it. I got really lucky in my case, JKR liked my work enough to ask me to partner up with him in a contest, and it went well enough that he wanted to keep me around for other projects, lol.

But yeah, aside from my boyfriend I've got family that would never understand even the more innocent and fully-clothed pin-ups I've done, let alone the stuff I've worked on that's too explicit for even the mature tag at dA, so all my art is done under an alias these days. Heh, go figure. It's just that I've always loved drawing girls, and I suppose I kinda live vicariously through those drawings more than anything else. I wanna learn Flash one of these days as well, but I do have the basics down for animating with ImageReady for simple gifs and stuff. I hoped to work for Disney myself back in the day, but life is a cruel mistress and sorta got in the way of that, and I even stopped drawing altogether for years at a time. My experience at JAB's was good for me though; it got me out of my shell and drawing again and also allowed me to meet a lot of cool artists.

slave2moonlight: Yeah, it'd be cool to talk on AIM whenever you get a chance (and used to the program). If you're having trouble with it or want to contact me about anything, my current email addy is on my dA page. I wasn't sure about the PM's, I just know that the feature was disabled to newbies sometime after I joined but Luke handed out the ability as a gift on at least one occasion.

Oh and yeah, phony, overly skinny girls with implants and other fake stuff . . . just ew. I could stand to lose some weight myself but I'd rather be extra curvy than a rail packed with silicone any day, lol.

[littlefuzzy]

Has anyone seen any of the Music Videos from Tenacious D, like "FHG" (I can't say the real name...)? It was directed by John Kricfalusi, the creator of Ren & Stimpy. He also did another one for them called Classico (although I don't know how adult that one is...)

[Goliath]

I don't know... I've seen a fair share of hentai on the net, and I can't say I'm impressed with the so-called 'plot'. From what I've seen, it's basically the "guy that comes to fix your cable, let's have sex" scenario, but in animated form. At other times, the plots are more complicated, but way too over the top (thinking about tentacle-thingies here, among others!).

And I don't get why people who love hentai are complaining about live-action porn being filled with girls who are way too skinny and have huge fake implants. I don't like that either, and I will never watch that kind of stuff, but all I ever see in hentai is young, very skinny girl with huge (and I mean: so huge it's absurd) breasts. What's up with that?

[littlefuzzy]

I would say what you've seen on the net isn't necessarily the best representation of Hentai...

For one thing, it might have been edited down to just the "juicy" bits, or maybe the sites that put it up were concerned with the most "bang for the buck" - pardon the pun. They might have skipped over the titles that don't have wall-to-wall sex but do have deeper stories.

As far as the tentacle thing goes, they have some strange censorship laws in Japan, so tentacle-ey things can be shown, while a male organ can't. Add in the fact that they can do other things like hold someone, rip clothing, etc., plus there aren't a bunch of man butts and other parts getting in the view, and you can see why some people might like those kinds of shows.

There are MANY types of hentai out there, from full-on loli (no breasts at all) to "average" high-school/college girls, to much older "Office Lady" type of stuff. There are things that are almost sweet high-school romances, just with a couple of sex scenes, to true horror stories (which is where the demons and tentacles usually come in.)

[slave2moonlight]

Has anyone seen any of the Music Videos from Tenacious D, like "FHG" (I can't say the real name...)? It was directed by John Kricfalusi, the creator of Ren & Stimpy. He also did another one for them called Classico (although I don't know how adult that one is...)

I've seen FHG! Great stuff! Ha. I totally forgot about that, but yeah, his style is very recognizable, and he's another who draws girls in a stile I really like; cutesy and very animation-style.

[slave2moonlight]

When I was checking out Fritz the Cat the other day on YouTube, I was surprised to find some other titles I'd never heard of (or forgot about if I had), like something called "The Big Bang". It's kinda hard to find whole movies on YouTube, I guess people do that on purpose, but when you do, you know how they have links to others over on the side. Well, I saw some others tuff there, and have had similar luck with horror films (was watching "Witchboard" on there early this morning! I didn't remember that it was THAT good, ha; Gonna have to get the DVD).

I wonder why on-Earth they'd scrap a Pirates animated series. Well, I have a mug with the toon Jack and Will on it from a cocoa set I got on clearance after Christmas, ha (2 of them actually, but they're both the same), but that's all the tooned up merchandise I have so far. Interesting to find out they actually were done up with a show in mind. I'm surprised they never even came out with a Pirates of the Caribbean comic book or anything, though maybe soon since Disney has started a new graphic novel division (that should have some interesting surprises for us and was started up with the hope of providing new feature film material as well). I believe I did see a comic adaptation in the toon style for Dead Man's Chest on Amazon.com which I wouldn't mind getting at some point. I definitely want the toon Jack and Elizabeth maquettes someday too, not to mention several of those tooned up figures from that one website discussed some time ago. Awesome stuff!

Ah, Roger Rabbit IS my favorite film of all time! Ha. I'm not saying it's the best film of all time, but it's my favorite! And it's not even due to Jessica. I like her, but she's not high on my list of toon hotties. For one thing, I don't find those smoky voices attractive, though I know many people do. My ideal voice is more along the lines of Ariel or Sugabaybee . And her breasts always looked too much like implants to me, ha, but maybe that was just the dress? Anyway, she's not altogether unattractive to me, but I mainly love the film because I LOVE the setting ('40's Hollywood) and I LOVE the whole toons sharing the world with humans concept. I'd totally be married to a toon in that world, ha. Plus, the way they brought together toons from competing studios; that was just awesome! Donald Duck dueling with Daffy, and Mickey skydiving with Bugs! Betty Boop working with the penguins from Mary Poppins! Just awesome! And it's just a great movie too! I also used to draw the characters a lot. One of the things I was best known for among people who went to school with me was that I could do a lot of Disney characters without reference, and Roger is one I still can do like that. And, of course, characters like Mickey, Donald, and Goofy aren't hard to remember (though easy to screw up if you rush too much), but many I used to be able to do from memory I'm not sure I still could, because I too went through a long period when I just wasn't drawing anymore.

Talking about people worrying about you though, ha, I was so "in love" with Ariel the Little Mermaid back when that movie came out that people were very worried about me! Ha. I mean, it was bad. I am the type who falls in love fast and hard though, ha, and am usually really into one celeb or another at any given time, most recently Hilary Duff. Though lately I am torn between a handful, ha, and same with the toon girls, especially Tink and Ariel. I think people are getting the impression I've abandoned Ariel for Tink, but I really haven't... I'm very torn between the two. Tink is more "in your face" everywhere lately though, and so I've probably bought more merchandise of her lately too.

I didn't get to watch Daria as much as I wish I had, but I liked what I saw and would love to get a DVD set if one came out. Not that I am too good at grabbing DVDs of shows right when they come out. I am always trying to keep up with Disney and missing other stuff, though I get some of it a little at a time. I noticed "The Real Adventures of Johnny Quest" has a season one set out now (just came out recently), and I'd like to snag that because I had quite the crush on Jessie Bannon, ha.

I actually am no familiar with "Least I Could Do", I'll have to look into that one. Speaking of new shows, I hear a Spaceballs animated series is out now or coming out (on a network I don't get). Should be interesting. I've been coming up with gags for a Spaceballs prequel ("Spaceballs the Prequel") for quite some time, ha, but have never had the time to commit it to paper. I've also thought of just doing it as a fan comic. I'm wondering what new canon or gags the series will introduce now though (not that animated shows are usually treated as canon).

I remember Stripperella, of course, but I don't think I ever really got around to watching it. The whole Pam Anderson thing was a bit of a turn off for me (not really into her, but I might like her voice), but I remember liking aspects of what I saw (just don't remember what those were, but her voice might have been part of it). Again, one I wouldn't mind exploring/owning on DVD.

Which brings to mind a CGI show called Tripping the Rift. Remember that one? I didn't see much of the show, but I received a free copy of the direct to video movie from Amazon Vine, and I can't say I gave it a favorable review. It was pretty lame. Wish I could remember the details, but just look for Monty Moonlight's review of it, ha.

Never seen Zone's animation to my knowledge, but this I've gotta see! Ha. Did he do that great KP flash game I've seen out there?

I didn't realize D.A. had a help wanted forum(I often avoid webboards because so many people like to pick fights with me on them, ha)! Well, I'm okay with doing adult material aside from Loli stuff, except for two issues. One, it would be tricky for me as far as when I could work since I still live at home and my computer is not in my room, ha (this is why I'm usually awake till dawn, as it's no fun using the internet with people passing by behind you from time to time, ha). I could work that out though. But Two is a bigger issue. I have lurked on those webboards you mentioned before but have always been hesitant to post since I know they throw caution to the wind on the age issue when drawing hentai, and I could swear that I'd read toons have to be of age too now (ridiculous and freedom of expression infringing as that sounds). Kinda weird since it's not hard to find adult material of Ariel and her fellow jailbait princesses, but I was sure I had read that somewhere reputable. Meanwhile, those sites even post some pretty messed up loli stuff, ha. So did I get some incorrect information on that issue? Anyway, if so, I'd be more than willing to start posting on those boards if it'll get me some commission work, ha. I have noticed they do seem to be more friendly and complimentary than folks on other webboards, ha ha. Well, clear me up on that issue if you can, and thanks for the advice. I'll definitely be looking into this stuff, as I need to start making a reasonable income and move to a more art friendly (and single guy with good taste friendly) environment already. I guess I consider L.A. the place to be for an artist, though maybe not right now with the economy like it is, but also because I like to dabble in acting and other stuff too, but I will most likely hit Austin first if I find myself able to move within the next few years. Might not be a great place for artists either, but it'd be a step up for me in other areas. Oh, and yeah, we'll talk on AIM sometime soon I hope, and my e-mail is also on most of my pages I think, in case you ever want to drop me a line that way. My slave2moonlight one, not my Monty one, ha. I don't check Monty's often. Still haven't really developed a fanbase, even though the comic runs in a South Texas magazine that gets decent distribution for a local mag, ha.

[Elladorine]

Wow, I just checked out the FHG video. I saw it a few years ago but didn't know anything about Tenacious D back then, lol. There's a few things I'd love to say here . . . but I'm gonna hold back, lol.

As for tentacles, I guess if I really think about it I can see the appeal for said reasons, but maybe it's harder for me to since . . . well . . . I'm not a guy, lol. Nothing against it, it's just not for me as I can't imagine being on the receiving end.

I've got the first season set of Tripping the Rift but haven't dug it out yet. My boyfriend likes the series though so we rented the movie a while back. It sucked! I knew what they were going for by switching to B&W for some scenes but it was horribly distracting and didn't add to the movie at all. Other than that, there wasn't anything memorable about it. My boyfriend says the series is much better though, but with so much to watch on my list, sigh . . . . it's hard to get to everything, even the stuff I already have. Been meaning to pick up Duckman one of these days as well; I don't remember it well except liking it back when it was airing.

I've seen a few clips of Spaceballs the Animated Series (not sure if that's the exact title, but if it's not, it should be!), but I was disappointed with the animation style. Did they really have to go with vectors/flash look? I'd rather see fully-blown CG; vectors in 2D have been so overdone lately and I miss the more traditional look. I really should give it another chance though since I love the movie to death.

Least I Could Do is one of the most successful webcomics around, my boyfriend and I enjoy it so much that we bought the complete set of books, even though all the comics are available for free through the site. They occasionally throw in parodies/cameos/references of other cartoon characters, like The Little Mermaid.

That "great KP Flash" game . . . if it's the one that I'm thinking of with her and Drakken that can't be given much of a further description here, then yeah, it's Zone's. There's a whole thread dedicated to his work over at WWOEC.

And speaking of places like WWEOC . . . yeah, some of the posted material is pretty messed up. Loli rubs me the wrong way and for personal reasons I refuse to draw it; any character I do draw in a mature setting is strictly intended to be of age. Try telling that to the mods at dA though, I've had countless pics deleted by them! They don't allow artists to "age" characters like KP, even though it's canon that she's graduated high school; if characters were originally depicted as younger than 18 in the show or movie then (according to them) there's nothing you can do to change that. It gets a little crazy as they've deleted fully clothed KP pics other similar work I've done, citing them as being too sexual.

And as for the laws in the US, they draw the line at CG (hand-drawn loli is legal but CG loli is not). However, there's been a recent debate on how those laws are interpreted due to how the case of Dwight Whorley is being handled (although to be fair, the main issue was that he's a sicko that got caught with real stuff involving actual children but the media has had a field day over the loli). Aside from large companies occasionally throwing cease and desist letters to prominent artists like JAB, artists have been left alone to do as they will (and that has more to do with copyright issues than anything else).

Anyway, forums are great way to get exposure, especially if you're hoping to do commissions and the like. I'm a bit wary of them myself these days, or at least I'm more careful about how I get involved due to the drama that happened over at JAB's. I rarely get into disagreements on the things as I tend to be the mediator, lol. In fact I'm currently helping moderate the forum for Levelord's new site (the address can be found within the background of his "Buy me a drink" KP pic over in his dA gallery). Not many there yet since it just started and he hasn't really advertized it, but we've got a handful of big-name fan artists already posting and it's a fun, casual atmosphere.

To be honest I'm not crazy about the way dA's boards are run; you can't go back into the archives easily and the place is too big to really feel a closeness to the community. But I check it every so often and they do have people looking for commissions and the like. WWOEC's a huge community as well and I actually tend to feel lost there. But people are always great to me in my art thread and I feel very welcome, despite the fact that most of my art is cleaner than the norm, lol. I'm also an official artist with them (something you have to apply for) and it's another thing that really gets your name out there.

. . . And I'll be back later, lol.