Song of the South: Too Offensive to Release on DVD?

[UncleEd]

<i>Moderator's Note: This discussion has been split from the "Future of the Treasures Uncertain" thread:</i>
http://www.ultimatedisney.com/forum/vie ... hp?t=18132

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"If Disney wants to "test the waters" with Song of the South, they should release the animated segments as something like "Br'er Rabbit's Tales" and see if that draws any controversy. I'm pretty sure that idea's been tossed back and forth around UD for years. "


I think all of the animated segments except 1 are on DVD now. Am I wrong?


Did the NAACP riot? Did Rev. Jackson and Sharpton call for Disney's head on a platter? Actually, I bet they don't even know they are out there...

[I am the Doctor]

"If Disney wants to "test the waters" with Song of the South, they should release the animated segments as something like "Br'er Rabbit's Tales" and see if that draws any controversy. I'm pretty sure that idea's been tossed back and forth around UD for years. "


I think all of the animated segments except 1 are on DVD now. Am I wrong?


Did the NAACP riot? Did Rev. Jackson and Sharpton call for Disney's head on a platter? Actually, I bet they don't even know they are out there...

I'm not sure, but I don't believe any of the animated sequences are available on DVD. I'm pretty darn sure the second sequence (the "Tar Baby" story) is not, as this is the one (of the animated sequences) that might cause the most offence.

The two versions on the Sing-A-Long DVDs are not from SOTS, Everybody has a Laughing Place from Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious - I Love to Laugh Sing A long features various film clips. The Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah version from Disneyland Fun - It's a Small World: Sing Along Songs features scenes from Splash Mountain.

More info on these two releases can be found here:
http://www.ultimatedisney.com/directtovideo.htm

Disney may have released the animated versions on VHS at some point, but I don't think they've ever released the "Tar Baby" sequence at all in the US.

I just don't see Disney releasing a Brer Rabbit-only release, or if they did they wouldn't include the Tar Baby sequence at all, making it a rather pointless exercise.

[darth_deetoo]

They are available in black and white at least as part of episodes of the Disneyland TV show on some of the treasures or other releases.

[Flanger-Hanger]

The first sequence is in color on the "One Hour in Wonderland Special" and the third segment is in Black and White on "The Disneyland Story". The first part of the second segment was released on the Sing-A-Long VHS "Friend Like Me" where Brer Rabbit can be seen signing "How Do You Do". All cartoon segments can be seen in color on Youtube.

[darth_deetoo]

Forgive me for any offence this may cause, but what is it that's so controversial about Song of the South?

I think I've only ever seen it as a child, many, many years ago and can't remember much about it.

I know it deals with slavery, which of course is a controversial subject. But from the clips I've seen the character of Uncle Remus seems to be a positive character. I know the animated characters have 'caricatured' voices, but I always took this to simply be that Uncle Remus was the one telling the stories about these characters and so naturally they were in a version of his voice.

Aside from the fact that it deals with slavery - which surely many other films do - surely that's simply the historical context in which the film is set, and should be and could be viewed in that way without causing offence.

Is Song of the South an original screenplay or was it based on another book or story? Were the Uncle Remus stories published before Disney's version?

[Lars Vermundsberget]

Aside from the fact that it deals with slavery - which surely many other films do - surely that's simply the historical context in which the film is set, and should be and could be viewed in that way without causing offence.

Aside from the fact that it's even set in the time after the end of slavery in the US, I think most could agree with you. However, there are still people who disagree and are very vocal about it, apparently. We suspect that Disney's fear of such people is the reason why you get no DVD release of SotS.

Is Song of the South an original screenplay or was it based on another book or story? Were the Uncle Remus stories published before Disney's version?

Based on a book by Joel Chandler Harris - that may again be based on "tradition", I guess...?

[brotherbear]

I still don't understand the whole controversy of Song of the South, and I've seen it. Numerous times actually. (That's because I found no other way to see it, but to download it off of Limewire. Illegal, yes I know, but I didn't have much of a choice. I would buy an authentic DVD if it ever came out.. ).

Can someone please tell me what's wrong with the tar baby scene? The only thing I see about it is that the "baby" is black...but so is tar. And when the baby doesn't reply "Fine. How are you?" and Brer Rabbit eventually tries to beat-up the tar baby, I don't see how this is supposed to be some sort of racial stereotype/prejudice/racism/whatever-ism. Maybe it's just not connecting with me, but I seriously don't see anything wrong with the whole "tar-baby" scene.

And as for Uncle Remus himself, I see him as THE hero of the story. He teaches the children all of these life lessons (through the Brer Rabbit stories), and essentially does the right things, even when others around him do not (stuff like tell the stories to the children, even after Johnny's mother forbids it because it teaches important lessons).

I have always been a huge advocate for Song of the South. (Well, at least after I watched it). Song of the South has even become my favorite film which combines animation and live action. And, IMHO, scenes and characters in other films are far more offensive than anything found on SOTS, primarily the whole "red man" thing on Peter Pan (as well as the insanely jealous women, hence why I pretty much hate Tinkerbell) and the portrayal of slaves in Gone with the Wind. I also think it's a bit unfair that Song of the South has been released (at least either on VHS or Laserdisk) in every region except ours. But, then again, it seems that the US is the only country that has this extreme racial sensitivity.

Honestly, I think that the best solution to this issue is to (as many said) come up with a Treasure for it. Maybe something like, "Pre-Civil Right's Movement Features." Then, they could house the full, un-censored Song of the South, AND feature the LONG-time censored Fantasia segment, Pastoral Symphony IN IT'S ENTIRITY. (Not the whole film. I can picture Disney wanting to market as much that they could out of such a famous and revered film like Fantasia). Personally, if I were to just get whole Pastoral Symp. segment, I would be happy, as well as for Disney to recognize that a black centaur named "Sunflower" did exist in the original film.

Ok, I promise that for now I'm done with my rant.

[Big Disney Fan]

Well... you can also download Song of the South from Mousebits.com, provided you are a member of it. If you're not, then you can become one. All you have to do is register... and then track it down, download it and wait. Eventually, the film will be fully downloaded and you can then watch it. Note, however, that at random intervals in the movie, there's a disclaimer that the movie is not for sale. Well, anyway, that's what I did and I actually liked it.

[UmbrellaFish]

Can someone please tell me what's wrong with the tar baby scene? The only thing I see about it is that the "baby" is black...but so is tar. And when the baby doesn't reply "Fine. How are you?" and Brer Rabbit eventually tries to beat-up the tar baby, I don't see how this is supposed to be some sort of racial stereotype/prejudice/racism/whatever-ism. Maybe it's just not connecting with me, but I seriously don't see anything wrong with the whole "tar-baby" scene.

I can see how people could find that racial (I've never seen the film, but was it a human baby?) If it was a human baby, the media would have a field day. Now, I personally don't find it as such a outburst, but I'm sure everyone in America will be rammbleing about it.

[Lars Vermundsberget]

"Extreme racial sensitivity" in the US might explain a lot. From my point of view, though, there are just some people who are particularly ready to "see" or "read" evil, offensive messages.

[2099net]

I still don't understand the whole controversy of Song of the South, and I've seen it. Numerous times actually. (That's because I found no other way to see it, but to download it off of Limewire. Illegal, yes I know, but I didn't have much of a choice. I would buy an authentic DVD if it ever came out.. ).

Can someone please tell me what's wrong with the tar baby scene? The only thing I see about it is that the "baby" is black...but so is tar. And when the baby doesn't reply "Fine. How are you?" and Brer Rabbit eventually tries to beat-up the tar baby, I don't see how this is supposed to be some sort of racial stereotype/prejudice/racism/whatever-ism. Maybe it's just not connecting with me, but I seriously don't see anything wrong with the whole "tar-baby" scene.

Well, some things aren't "racist" when they are concieved, but take on racist aspects later. I'm not an expert on anything, but yes, I do think the tar baby sequence could easily be taken as racist and offensive, because at some point "tar baby" became a racial slur.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_baby
"Over the years, the term has also acquired a negative connotation as a derogatory term for African Americans."

There's other examples... such as gollywogs, which were never intended to be racist, but clearly are when viewed with today's sensibilities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gollywog

Or of course the word Gay, which meant "happy", which since became a derogatory word for homosexuals (but has since been reclimed by homosexuals, and is no longer derogatory in most instances).

Words, concepts and sensibilities change all the time.

However, I find it interesting that the tar baby sequence is rarely mentioned when discussing Song of the South, because I do think it is the only segment that could cause offense.

And as for Uncle Remus himself, I see him as THE hero of the story. He teaches the children all of these life lessons (through the Brer Rabbit stories), and essentially does the right things, even when others around him do not (stuff like tell the stories to the children, even after Johnny's mother forbids it because it teaches important lessons).

I totally agree. I think the treatment of James Baskett by the movie industry was somewhat shameful (special award why on Earth was is a "special" award), there's nothing at all offensive, wrong or unPC about Uncle Remus's character. But that's just my opinion as a European white. Others my have different opinions.

[Mr. Toad]

"Extreme racial sensitivity" in the US might explain a lot. From my point of view, though, there are just some people who are particularly ready to "see" or "read" evil, offensive messages.

Yes,

But who is it that is objecting to it. We have debunked the theory that it was the NCAAP that was objecting. We have heard from several black celebraties who are big fans of it. Aside from portraying African Americans during Reconstruction as a whole lot happier than most of them were, there is nothing wrong with the movie. This can be dealt with an introduction you cant sksp through. If anything for African Americans it should be a celebration of a couple of pioneer actors in James Baskett and Hattie McDaniel both of whom give excellent performances.

It seems to me Disney is scared of a backlash that just does not exist.

[Big Disney Fan]

I think the treatment of James Baskett by the movie industry was somewhat shameful (special award why on Earth was is a "special" award), there's nothing at all offensive, wrong or unPC about Uncle Remus's character. But that's just my opinion as a European white. Others my have different opinions.

We're both in the same boat on this one. I personally don't see much wrong with Remus, either. But most of us know only too well that that doesn't mean others see it that way, too...

[UmbrellaFish]

Or of course the word Gay, which meant "happy", which since became a derogatory word for homosexuals (but has since been reclimed by homosexuals, and is no longer derogatory in most instances).

The word gay didn't keep Disney from releaseing Cinderella which the fairy godmother says, "Be gay!" when Cinderella was leaving for the ball. It's surprising there wasn't controversy (Fall, 2005) over that. People...

[ichabod]

Have you ever seen The Three Caballeros? The word gay is used so many time you would loose count!

[darth_deetoo]

I'm so glad this thread is staying on topic; we're sure to get more Treasures this way.

Well, you know, that's the way conversations go - they do tend to drift off topic. But as Song of the South was being discussed as a potential Treasure, I don't really see as discussion of the film and why it's considered so controversial was really that off topic.

[Escapay]

Renata and I have said it time and again. The only thing offensive about Song of the South is this:



What an offensive lace collar! Johnny should be ashamed of himself!



Escapay

[ichabod]

Here's an even clearer shot to really bring home the terror of little Johnny's lace collar!



Rumor has it Bobby Driscoll had to have counselling to get over it and part of his contract for Treasure Island was that he didn't have to wear one. Apparantly in 1953 he took out a restraining order so that no lace collars could come within 100 feet of him!

[Escapay]

This is why I need to live in PAL-land. Look at the difference between the BBC airing and the Hong Kong Laserdisc!

Rumor has it Bobby Driscoll had to have counselling to get over it and part of his contract for Treasure Island was that he didn't have to wear one. Apparantly in 1953 he took out a restraining order so that no lace collars could come within 100 feet of him!

Escapay

[ichabod]

This is why I need to live in PAL-land. Look at the difference between the BBC airing and the Hong Kong Laserdisc!

I know. In your cap it looks like he's wearing a black suit, and a white collar on black ain't that bad, but against bottle green! Ouch! The crimes against fashion pile up.

Maybe the color on the HK laserdisc was deliberately toned down to prevent seizures!