My 2 cents on why the best PE get the worst treatment

[Evil Genie Jafar]

Hi....


I was thinking about this the other night and I'd like to share it with you.

Some of you might be thinking: why is that a movie as important as TLK gets a worst DVD treatment than Aladdin? (I love the movie... but I know most people don't think the same way).

I was thinking about this and I came up with this: to actually give a reason to people double dip the movie eventually.

I'll discuss them each one:

Snow White: it was the first of course, very important movie. So why if this one is such a masterpiece got a GREAT DVD treatment? Well, obviously it was the first one. Disney had to make sure the PE line had importance. And besides, we're talking about SW here. Being it the most important, there are TONS of material out there. So if they decide to re-release the movie... it will be very easy for Disney to fill the new edition with new material.

Bauty and the Beast: Another very important movie. And in this one we get to see how quality started dropping. Was there actually a reason for this when back then PEs were released one movie per year? That meant much more time to be working on the DVD. Why did the video (aside for the obvious reasons) lacked in this department having already such an astonishing restoration on SW?

The Lion King: Probably the best Disney movie to many around the world. And it has such a bad release? The obvious reason. To make a better verion in the future and people have no other reason than to upgrade.

Aladdin: Not the most popular out there (anymore at least) and what an incredible 2nd DVD!!!. As said before Disney might have known that this one wouldn't sell as much as they wanted. So, in the future most people won't buy a better version of this movie just because of some extras... so why not give Aladdin the best quality possible already?

Bambi: Being such a good movie, why not gave it a crappy release? This DVD is not as complete as the Aladdin one but still WAY above most PEs. Probably to keep the level rised on the PE expectations. And since the DVD is very good already but has ways to improve it; it is not such a big effort to put.

Cinderella: So popular and such a crappy edition again.... to make people buy it again!


I don't know if you agree with me. But if my intuition serves me right, my guess will be that: Lady and the Tramp will get a VERY good edition. Probably on the same level as Aladdin. Expect The Litlle Mermaid to get a Cinderella like DVD or at least a Beauty and the Beast like one. The Jungle Book[/b] one of the best releases. And 101 Dalmatians[ a so so treatment.

[dvdjunkie]

Personally I don't buy a DVD for all the extras. I expect a DVD quality picture and good quality sound for my Home Theater. Other than that, I don't buy other editions of movies that I already have unless they have added something to the original movie or there is something that I just can't live without.............which is rare.

Unlike a lot of collector's.........I judge a DVD by how well the transfer of picture and sound is, not whether or not it has a good commentary or a behind-the-scenes documentary or something like that. If I happen to get a set that has what I think are pretty good extras I consider that a bonus.

With over 2000 titles in my DVD collection I can't afford to be to picky, but then I don't buy everything that comes out either. There are some Disney titles that I just won't own.........you know what those are.....direct-to-video releases are very hard for me to even consider. I only have two or three.

I guess I am just easy to please and that makes me different than most collector's.

[Isidour]

I´m not interested on buying new editions

I mean, the movie is what atracted me, not the deleted songs that never watched or the documentals of how it was made.

I think of those that are like luxuries, not necesaries but you could enjoy them

[pinkrenata]

Well, I don't exactly buy that theory, but I do think that <i>Cinderella</i> had a bit less effort put into it in part because they knew it would sell itself, what with the Disney Princess fanatics and whatnot.

[Evil Genie Jafar]

And those reasons that you give are quite logical.

But think for a moment on how important and popular are those movies to fans everywhere. And most people that think the way you do, will say the same about most movies. But with such a crappy edition of a DVD that will easily get improved in the future, fans of those movies will not think twice in upgrading.

PS

Unlike what will happen to the PE of Sleeping Beauty. A movie that's far from popular, already got a great restoration and has very nice extras.

Hving such a great edition for a movie like SB won't make people buy it again.

[MickeyMousePal]

Best PE: Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs

Worst PE: Cinderella

[sethn172]

Howdy!

Hey, I like my Beauty and the Beast DVD - the picture and sound quality are so good! At first, I was worried because lots of people hated that DVD because the picture quality wasn't that good. Guess I was wrong; everything's so easy to see! Even on a new widescreen TV!

I can see how as time goes by, each PE title seems to decrease in quality (take The Lion King, for example. I can't personally say it's bad because I've never seen it on DVD before). Hey, I may be wrong about everybody's thoughts on the just-released Cinderella DVD - I mean, THIS is the DVD everyone's been waiting for!

sethn172

[AwallaceUNC]

Best PE: Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs

Worst PE: Cinderella

Interesting! Hey Pals, can you give the best and worst release for all the Disney DVD lines? And start a different thread for each one. I really want to know what you think the best and worst Masterpiece Editions are.

-Aaron

[dvdjunkie]

It is all in the eyes of the beholder when it comes to 'best' and 'worst' editions. I personally think there is nothing wrong with Cinderella and recommend it to friends to buy. I don't understand what makes it a "crappy" release as opposed to Sleeping Beauty. Can you explain that to me? What makes Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs such a great PE and this issue of Cinderella a bad PE. I don't see any difference in quality or presentation - oh yeah, no THX, big deal, the average person can't tell the difference in that anyway!

[Disney-Fan]

It may not be important to you dvdjunkie, but many of us enjoy bonus features (in-depth ones, that is) and it seems as if we aren't getting enough of them lately (Aladdin being the exception). You can say we're being picky, but knowing how well Disney can be with bonus features (Atlantis CE, Snow White PE), it's disappointing to see such fairly poor releases put out nowadays.

[Tascar]

What bugs me about Disney's DVDs is that while I agree that the film presentation itself, the quality of the video and sound, etc, is the most important element, for me that is a given. When I buy a DVD by any major studio, I expect that the video and sound will be excellent. I don't have a bad TV setup, so I'm not saying that I have no standards for video and audio, but with the exception of the occasional pan-and-scan issues (which is unforgivable by me) and the obviously unrestored quality of films that Disney obviously really would like to forget (i.e. The Black Cauldron), I can't say that Disney or any major studio has really failed.

However what does bug me is that I do remember the reputation that Disney had in the old laserdisk age for its special editions. While the Criterion Collection obviously created the whole special edition, special features model, Disney really took the format and ran with it. The Lion King and Pocahontas's collector's edition laserdisk were truly some of the best collector's editions ever created, even in comparison to modern DVDs. At a time when Disney was really starting to hit it big, it really added to the classiness of Disney to show that they were willing to give their films the big treatment and really present their films as the pieces of art that they were.

As such it does bug me that the reputation of Disney high-end video formats have gone from incredible collector's editions with tons of supplemental material to cheap marketing schemes. I mean, it is really quite hypocritical to hear all this gushing of praise for these movies (most of which are rightly deserved) and then see that Disney is padding out the DVD with cheap ESPN promotions and stupid DVD games that any kid with a computer, Playstation, X-Box, GameCube, GameBoy, etc wouldn't even glance an eye at. If Disney wants to keep the people thinking about their films as masterpieces and works of art, they really need to give themselves a presentation worthy of that.

[Timon/Pumbaa fan]

I really doubt the current Mouse House is THAT cheap!

The Lion King: Probably the best Disney movie to many around the world. And it has such a bad release? The obvious reason. To make a better verion in the future and people have no other reason than to upgrade.

Aladdin: Not the most popular out there (anymore at least) and what an incredible 2nd DVD!!!. As said before Disney might have known that this one wouldn't sell as much as they wanted. So, in the future most people won't buy a better version of this movie just because of some extras... so why not give Aladdin the best quality possible already?

Cinderella: So popular and such a crappy edition again.... to make people buy it again!

Actually Disney DID think Aladdin was popular. I mean watch the previews for the Aladdin Platinum Edition and you'll hear the announcer say, "The wait is over... one of the greatest adventure films of all time is coming first the first time on a 2 Disc Special Edition".

Listening to the previews, I thought Disney was saying it was one of their most popular movies. But for some reason, it didn't sell too well. So I don't think the Aladdin one was predictable.

I think the reason Disney gave Aladdin such a great release is because of the many complaints for The Lion King PE. I mean there were quite of few people on Amazon and IMDb that were upset last time I checked. Even Luke gave the DVD a disappointing review. So I think Disney didn't want the same to happen with Aladdin, since they thought it was one of their most popular movies.

As for Cinderella, well the film is old and maybe they couldn't make as much bonus material as some of the others. But then that doesn't explain why Bambi was so great. Well it's probably easier to advertise Cinderella than Bambi since it's, sadly, a more loved movie, so I guess Disney was giving us so much advertisment for Cinderella that they were just too lazy to give this movie great DVD quality while they didn't spend as much advertisment for Bambi, but they gave it great DVD quality.

[That1GuyPictures]

I honestly think that the platinum editions have not been as good as they should becuase Buena Vista home video in general is disorganized and chaotic. I mean, look at their press releases...coming out sometimes a few weeks before a release, and changing video specs, losing and adding discs, terrible cover art on many releases, full frame transfers, late adaptation of 16x9 format compared to most other companies, a terrible movie club website filled with glitches, an poorly designed and usually out of date website for disneyvideos.com and most of all a general lack of understanding about what is a good way to do DVD.
All in all I have only been truly happy with Aladdin and Snow White.
Beauty and the Beasts aspect ratio change was unexcusable and the pixelation on the transfers is abominable. Lion King skimped on extras, Bambi was alright, and Cinderella was just plain awful. I was entirely disapointed by everything but the picture quality. The Pocahontas and Sleeping Beauty Special Editions had better features and layouts then more than half of the Platinum Editions. Even Mary Poppins was wrecked with that stupid Theatre Mix with new sound effects, and Alice is missing several of it's original laserdisc features!
I wish that Disney would just get their act together.
If they want us to spend money on professional products, then they should try making them professionally and advertising them as such.

[That1GuyPictures]

I´m not interested on buying new editions

I mean, the movie is what atracted me, not the deleted songs that never watched or the documentals of how it was made.

I think of those that are like luxuries, not necesaries but you could enjoy them

Something I'd like to point out that others haven't is that Disney has already "changed" Lion King and Beauty and the Beast's aspect ratio.
Lion King was originally 1.85 and Beauty's Was 1.66:1. How is that respectful of the original theatrical presentations?! At least with B&TB they kept the original theatrical version in tact. The Lion King has an altered version of the film! We're talking George Lucas style changes here!
I found that completely unnacceptable.

[dvdjunkie]

That1GuyPictures I think is really in the minority here. There is nothing wrong with the transfer of Beauty and the Beast or Cinderella that the average person (like me) can tell the difference. I make no apologies for some of the lack of special features because that doesn't drive me to buy a movie. No matter whether it is Disney, Paramount, Warner Bros. or whomever. Special features are for the connoiseur who thinks that $20 is a lot to spend for a DVD if it only has the movie and nothing else. I am sorry, I look for a good transfer of picture and sound, and with my Home Theater that features a 15 foot diagonal picture and has 6.1 Dolby Digital Sound with thumpers in front and under my two rows of stadium seating. If it rocks my world and the picture looks prestine on my screen, then that is good enough for me.

Special features do not make it a good movie. They make it a good purchase as a bonus along with the movie. I think that too many of us are overlooking the fact that some of these movies were made almost 70 years ago and the fact that a decent negative or that technology can eliminate imperfections in an available print, we should be thankful that we even get to see these films as they were presented in theaters so long ago.

Quit being so nitpicky about the minor details and be thankful for the major product that is in the box.

[That1GuyPictures]

That1GuyPictures I think is really in the minority here. There is nothing wrong with the transfer of Beauty and the Beast or Cinderella that the average person (like me) can tell the difference. I make no apologies for some of the lack of special features because that doesn't drive me to buy a movie. No matter whether it is Disney, Paramount, Warner Bros. or whomever. Special features are for the connoiseur who thinks that $20 is a lot to spend for a DVD if it only has the movie and nothing else. I am sorry, I look for a good transfer of picture and sound, and with my Home Theater that features a 15 foot diagonal picture and has 6.1 Dolby Digital Sound with thumpers in front and under my two rows of stadium seating. If it rocks my world and the picture looks prestine on my screen, then that is good enough for me.

Special features do not make it a good movie. They make it a good purchase as a bonus along with the movie. I think that too many of us are overlooking the fact that some of these movies were made almost 70 years ago and the fact that a decent negative or that technology can eliminate imperfections in an available print, we should be thankful that we even get to see these films as they were presented in theaters so long ago.

Quit being so nitpicky about the minor details and be thankful for the major product that is in the box.

I'm entitled to my own opinion. So...

NO.

Besides, I'm not in the minority, Luke has mentioned both issues on Beauty and Lion King's aspect ratios and I didn't say anything bad about Cinderella's transfer. I thought it was awesome.

[The Little Merman]

Here's my two cents:

Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs: The first Disney, the first Platinum. As Evil Genie stated, since the flick was the first PE, they had to make a good example of those to come, so they jam packed it with tons of features and a terrific transfer, making one of IMHO the best DVDs ever.

Beauty and the Beast: I think BatB is a perfectly fine set, but you can see the quality slowly drop down. The transfer is magnificent, and the BF are nice enough.

The Lion King: Here is where things dropped a few more paces. TLK's transfer was, as Snow White and Beauty's wonderful, but the features were: 1.- Scattered everywhere, 2.- Scattered everywhere confusingly, 3. Could have easily been placed into one simple featurette., 4. TOO MANY LANDS!!

Aladdin:..expressed the shine of hope we fans had all been waiting for. One of the "Disney Renaissance"'s best, Al was, as usual, beautifully restored, with easily the most informative mini-documentary I have seen in years. They gave us loads of materials, but in one nice package.

Bambi:..was a moderate success for me. The film's restoration was nice, leaving a little more desired, however, as with the rest of the Discs. There were features, but not enough to assuage my tastes.

Cinderella: Easily the best restoration to date. I highly doubt the future Platinums will reach this success in my book. I, being a huge Cindy fan, could not have been happier about the flick. The features are nice, but leave a lot more desired for myself.

In the future, I hope The Little Mermaid will be a splendid release, along the lines of BatB, at least, or even better- Aladdin.

*tlm

[dvdjunkie]

That1GuyPictures, you just answered the question perfectly. Just you and Luke agree on some of the nitpicky things. I never said you weren't entitled to your own opinion, but gad, to be so nitpicky is just not being reasonable at all. Are you that way with all the movies that you watch. I am afraid to look at your DVD collection for fear of not seeing much of anything worthwhile watching.

Opinions are fine, but being unreasonable when it comes to classic animation and its finished product is more than one's opinion.

[Aqua]

The only DVDs that I didn't like too much were Alice In Wonderland and the The Lion King. It had nothing to do with video/audio quality, but the fact that the extras were to kiddy and none of them had much ''behind-the-scenes'' documentaries or stuff like that despite the fact that some were indeed made, even if they were short and such. Other than that, you won't see me complaining too much about the new DVDs. The only other thing that irked me was the stupid edits presented in Lion King, which I believe was the only film to go through a ''little'' editing change.

[DarthPrime]

Other than Beauty and the Beast and Cinderella (which I don't own yet. Will probably get Cinderella this weekend) I think all the Platinum Editions are great. The Transfers and Sound have been solid in my opinion.

I do have to agree with dvdjunkie. Special/Bonus Features don't make me decide on a DVD purchase. They are nice, but I usually only watch them once. I even have some DVDs where I haven't watched anything but the movie. In my opinion sometimes great movies suffer because the disc is packed full of bonus material leaving little room for the movie itself.