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With Pocahontas, I blame the fact that Ratcliffe is so divorced in tone from everything and every other character (even though I thought David Ogden Stiers gave a fun performance). With Tarzan, Clayton was just a flop all-around--the design of the character was the most underwhelming part for me. I thought Hercules and Mulan were both decent in that department, but not up there with the Fab Four or Hunchback--partly because Hercules & Hades and Mulan & Shan-Yu have little direct interaction with one another. Whereas Belle and Simba have regular interaction with Gaston and Scar in the first part of their films, TLM has "PUS," Aladdin has the Cave of Wonders scene where Jafar manipulates Aladdin, and Quasi and Frollo interact even more often.

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Listening to most often lately:
Diana Ross ~ "I'm Coming Out"
The Weather Girls ~ "It's Raining Men"
Christina Aguilera ~ "Beautiful"
LeAnn Rimes ~ "Love Is Love Is Love"
Gloria Gaynor ~ "I Am What I Am"

You guys are right, having a hero and villain who are good for each other is important.


The "kill the witch" thing is indeed in many fairy tales, and is in Snow White and Sleeping Beauty (I see the Cinderella "witch" being defeated, but not killed, and she doesn't get a horrible life, her evil plans are just ruined), I was just pointing it out here with the addition of an older man rising to power again to add insult to injury.

I looked through, not read, but looked through those Little Mermaid novels when I was s kid! I looked for Ursula in them, and there was an illustration of her, young, skinny, looking like Vanessa, with a young Triton. I guessed Ursula was in Reflections of Arsulu, but I accidentally saw that it was about Ursula after I was thinking it may be that one. That guy in Ariel the Spy's cover is a hunk!!!

That's so cool about Ariel's sisters!!!

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One could argue that King Stefan is an example of an older man who regains power in Sleeping Beauty after Maleficent's death and the Maleficent film certainly seemed to go that route. And in Snow White, seven, albeit little, men were responsible for killing the queen and Grumpy was hardly the biggest fan of women before that.

Yes, Ursula is really Arsulu in disguise. I've seen some cool fanart of Ursula and her various disguises including Vanessa and Arsulu. Lol, the guy in Ariel the Spy is her substitute teacher. I think Adella, the boy-crazy sister, actually has a thing for him when she sees him. Pretty much in every book she's after some guy although, besides the substitue, they all tend to be more age-appropriate for her.

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We’re a dyad in the Force. Two that are one.
"I offered you my hand once. You wanted to take it." - Kylo Ren
"I did want to take your hand. Ben's hand." - Rey

You know, you're right, older men come back in power even when those older women with power die in those other movies, too.

Does one of those books have Ursula when she was younger with a younger Triton, and she looks like Vanessa?

I like that Adella is boy crazy. That's fun.

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That actually I don't remember. There was nothing about young Triton with Ursula. If you look at the link I sent you with the novels, all the illustrations for the novels are included so maybe you can find it in there.

The same website also has images for all TLM books released so far so you might also find that picture here.
http://cbl.orcein.net/thelittlemermaid/gallery.htm

I think Adella was also boy crazy in the prequel movie which might be one of the few things that Ariel's Beginning kept consistent with the old canon.

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We’re a dyad in the Force. Two that are one.
"I offered you my hand once. You wanted to take it." - Kylo Ren
"I did want to take your hand. Ben's hand." - Rey

Oh, I found it! Or at least I think this is the only time they ever had this illustration. If this is the only time there was such an illustration, I was wrong, it wasn't in those novels you liked so much. It was in Once Upon a Princess: here. I had thought about getting that book when I saw it, but it didn't have enough Ursula for me, lol. I have the Cinderella one.

I hate Ariel's Beginning so much. Such a dreary movie.

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Oh ok, I've seen that image before. I always thought it was strange how they adapted Ariel's grandmother in that book. The Cinderella book comes with Belle and Pocahontas right? I know there's also a version that combines both volumes of the Once Upon a Princess series.

It's a really terribly written movie which doesn't fit in well with the original movie at all, let alone the TV series and sequel. The plotline and new characters are all so bad that you really have to wonder why this movie was ever greenlighted in the first place.

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We’re a dyad in the Force. Two that are one.
"I offered you my hand once. You wanted to take it." - Kylo Ren
"I did want to take your hand. Ben's hand." - Rey

Yes, Belle and Pocahontas are in that book with Cinderella! I don't know if I've ever seen the one with all of them together.

I'm glad we agree about Ariel's Beginning.

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30th ANNIVERSARY TODAY!

It's this one.



Wow, I can't believe it's been that long already! Congratulations to TLM!

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We’re a dyad in the Force. Two that are one.
"I offered you my hand once. You wanted to take it." - Kylo Ren
"I did want to take your hand. Ben's hand." - Rey

Congratulations to one of the greatest Disney films of all time! (I turned 30 this year, too; this movie is dragging me along with it. ) I'd put it in Disney's top 5 greatest animated films alongside Pinocchio, Dalmatians, The Lion King, and Beauty and the Beast. (With Bambi not far behind.)

Thank you to M&C, Howard Ashman, Alan Menken, Pat Carroll, Jodi Benson, Samuel Wright, Kenneth Mars, Glen Keane, Andreas Deja, Ruben Aquino, and all the so many, many others involved in making this movie a part of our world. <3

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Listening to most often lately:
Diana Ross ~ "I'm Coming Out"
The Weather Girls ~ "It's Raining Men"
Christina Aguilera ~ "Beautiful"
LeAnn Rimes ~ "Love Is Love Is Love"
Gloria Gaynor ~ "I Am What I Am"

Hahaha, Esmeralda is there. Hide that picture before Princess Cultist sees that and gets a seizure.

I believe the anniversary is the 17th if I'm not mistaken.

...whoops.

google lied to me Dx

Oh, I don't remember if I've seen that, but thanks for the picture.

When the 17th comes I will write a little something in celebration!

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It’s only 4 days off. Not a big deal, you can still celebrate.

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Listening to most often lately:
Diana Ross ~ "I'm Coming Out"
The Weather Girls ~ "It's Raining Men"
Christina Aguilera ~ "Beautiful"
LeAnn Rimes ~ "Love Is Love Is Love"
Gloria Gaynor ~ "I Am What I Am"

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Thank you very much for that, Sotiris. Even if I had read or heard so much of the info before, it was really great reading it again, and so in-depth. I really liked reading how Glean Keane liked hearing he made Ariel ugly because he really didn't think she was ugly, he thought she was real. That's why she is, I think, Disney's most beloved, or at least most popular Disney heroine. The strawberry blonde Tyco Ariel dolls was interesting! I also was interested to read how Howard Ashman broke the news about himself and how it was a shadow on Beauty and the Beast.

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Gosh, that made me a bit emotional reading that.

I don't think any film has ever made as much impact on me as Mermaid has.

Good for them noting the character of Ariel is best known for her red hair, in part because it signifies her fiery, passionate, and rebellious nature. I never knew Tyco had a problem with that early on. I love that they had to re-make the dolls.

Never knew about this.

All the details of the surface water and special effects are part of why the film is so striking.

Honestly, I remember reading how they tried to make a film that could sit along Walt’s old films, but I think one of the many, many reasons the film turned out so well was that perhaps they were thinking this could be the very last animated Disney film, period, and were trying to in some sense bookend Snow White. How different compared to the way Lasseter treated TP&TF. I don’t think he felt any real urgency about hand-drawn animation’s success or failure. He was going to have a job regardless of how things turned out, and I’m sure he preferred 3D anyway since that’s why he created PIXAR. And even Newman didn’t seem to care about the film to me based on those recent comments you posted from him, Sotiris; in some ways it felt like Lasseter threw him on the film because he didn’t care anyway and thought he could at least give a friend (Newman) another paycheck.

It’s a travesty when you really think about how the only films we really got with Ashman at full capacity and in control were The Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast. I know he contributed to Aladdin, too, but wow… You can only wonder what might’ve been. Maybe he could’ve steered the Renaissance in a way that Disney didn’t fall back on a repetitive formula (both in the story and music) that audiences tired of quickly.

I love what Keane said about Ariel not being pretty every moment in the film. I think that has a great deal to do with feminism having happened in the ‘60s between TLM and the old Walt princess films, too, because there’s something wrong with thinking a female protagonist needs to be pretty at all times. Ariel is still one of the most fleshed out female characters Disney has ever created. You see so many sides to the character--the good, the bad, hopeful, dreamy, angry, selfish, heartbroken, euphoric, etc. That's why she's one of the most popular characters they've ever had.

Same.

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Listening to most often lately:
Diana Ross ~ "I'm Coming Out"
The Weather Girls ~ "It's Raining Men"
Christina Aguilera ~ "Beautiful"
LeAnn Rimes ~ "Love Is Love Is Love"
Gloria Gaynor ~ "I Am What I Am"