Mulan (Live-Action)

[JeanGreyForever]

Not that I expect or desire a response from you, but literally nobody ever said that fairy tales are the only subject matter that deserve to be musicals. As usual, you probably briefly browsed through the posts and made your own assumption. Musicals come in all shapes and forms but a war-time film does not easily lend itself to the musical format.

[UmbrellaFish]

Since when has anybody ever called Mulan a war film? A war happens in the movie, but it pretty firmly falls into the genre of fairy tale musical. It sits on the shelf next to The Little Mermaid and Aladdin, not Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers.

That said, even if Disney is trying to produce a family friendly war film this go-around with Hua Mulan, it’s ludicrous to suggest that that would preclude it from using musical numbers. Others have already named many great wartime musicals. Heck, they even musicalized Gone With the Wind. Supposedly, the burning of Atlanta was spectacular on stage.

Disney’s cutting the songs because they are trying to serve two masters. They don’t think the Chinese will warmly receive a new Mulan movie that is too much like the 1998 original, so they are cutting the songs and hoping Western audiences don’t mind.

[JeanGreyForever]

Mulan is very much a war film, no matter which adaptation you look at, Disney or not Disney. It's the general crux of the film and the whole coming-of-age storyline is a distinctly Disney addition since the actual theme of the Mulan legend is meant to be one of nationalism. In fact, the coming-of-age storyline for Mulan was one of the parts that Chinese people distinctly despised because it went against how China has always culturally viewed the story. They felt it was a westernized bastardization of one of their great epics, and I suppose the American equivalent would be if China created a film based on Paul Revere in which he felt his loyalty was ultimately with the British despite personally sympathizing with the American colonists.

Gone With the Wind is another epic story that takes place over the span of years. The war is a big part of the film but it's mostly used to showcase the impact of the war on a handful of characters and how they change over time. Most of the film is not set on the battlefield or at a military camp like most of Mulan is. There's a crucial difference there.

[thedisneyspirit]

The film's gonna be confusing considering it'll want to have its cake and eat it too, appealing to both very different markets with different cultures and thoughts. If it works, great, but if it doesn't...

[Sotiris]

Since when has anybody ever called Mulan a war film? A war happens in the movie, but it pretty firmly falls into the genre of fairy tale musical. It sits on the shelf next to The Little Mermaid and Aladdin, not Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers.

I never considered it a war film either and I'm genuinely surprised other people do.

That said, even if Disney is trying to produce a family friendly war film this go-around with Hua Mulan, it’s ludicrous to suggest that that would preclude it from using musical numbers. Others have already named many great wartime musicals. Heck, they even musicalized Gone With the Wind.

Exactly!

Disney’s cutting the songs because they are trying to serve two masters. They don’t think the Chinese will warmly receive a new Mulan movie that is too much like the 1998 original, so they are cutting the songs and hoping Western audiences don’t mind.

I'm seeing a lot of assumptions of what the Chinese did or did not like. Supposedly, they weren't fond of the original but I've never seen any concrete evidence of that. Even if the film wasn't warmly received when it premiered, that must have changed by now otherwise videos like this one wouldn't exist.

The thing is Disney's Mulan is an American product that was made with American audiences in mind. Attempting to radically change that will create a Frankenstein of a movie that will end up pleasing no one.

[Disney's Divinity]

I can understand why Disney wants to appeal to China ($$$), but I would much rather the film just be like the successful animated film it’s remaking, for sure. I guess I don't care if China loves it, likes it, or hates it. If the animated film could be a hit without China being in love with it so can the live-action remake. Besides, I seriously doubt that the film not being a musical is suddenly going to make China love it, since I doubt the music is what they disliked about the original. Mulan still isn't going to kill herself at the end like the legend, and if anything, it's more fantastical now with a phoenix as her family guardian and a witch as the villain.

[JeanGreyForever]

I'm seeing a lot of assumptions of what the Chinese did or did not like. Supposedly, they weren't fond of the original but I've never seen any concrete evidence of that. Even if the film wasn't warmly received when it premiered, that must have changed by now otherwise videos like this one wouldn't exist.

Here are some links you might be interested in then.
https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xp ... story.html
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/how-is-d ... _b_4314035
http://asiainamerica.blogspot.com/2012/ ... years.html
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/wjb4 ... matic-fave
https://www.quora.com/How-is-Disneys-Mu ... d-in-China
https://imdiversity.com/diversity-news/ ... -netizens/

The last one might seem random but it's pretty indicative of how Chinese people think the Disney Mulan is ugly and not at all reflective of Chinese beauty standards but instead what American people think the Chinese look like. I used to have a better link featuring comments from Chinese people going on about her appearance but I can't find it anymore.

From what I've generally found, Chinese children who grew up with the film favor it whereas older Chinese audiences are the ones most critical of the film. On top of that, Asian Americans (whether they're Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, etc.) generally tend to love the film because it was their only mainstream portrayal whereas actual Chinese audiences don't have this issue so they're not nearly as forgiving. Other Asian countries like Japan and Korea have no love for Mulan because of it's nationalistic Chinese roots so you won't even find Mulan in those countries, especially in Japan, despite it being one of the countries that loves Disney most. The below link showcases that and it's actually pretty hilarious especially the ending remark by the Japanese media.

https://www.geek.com/tech/japanese-medi ... s-1658984/

“During the video report on Tokyo Disneyland, we stated that some of the characters were not from Disney properties. However, they are actually Disney characters that have been modified to appear more Chinese.”

Mulan. A character from a Disney film that takes place in China, was modified to appear more Chinese, for a Chinese theme park. Good one, Mister Sunday. Keep those Sino-Japanese relations strong.

[Sotiris]

Mulan still isn't going to kill herself at the end like the legend, and if anything, it's more fantastical now with a phoenix as her family guardian and a witch as the villain.

At the end of the day, these remakes appeal most to people who loved the original. Significantly changing them in an attempt to cater to people who didn't is not only futile but also you risk alienating your core audience in the process.

[DisneyFan97]

I'm seeing a lot of assumptions of what the Chinese did or did not like. Supposedly, they weren't fond of the original but I've never seen any concrete evidence of that. Even if the film wasn't warmly received when it premiered, that must have changed by now otherwise videos like this one wouldn't exist.

Here are some links you might be interested in then.
https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xp ... story.html
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/how-is-d ... _b_4314035
http://asiainamerica.blogspot.com/2012/ ... years.html
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/wjb4 ... matic-fave
https://www.quora.com/How-is-Disneys-Mu ... d-in-China
https://imdiversity.com/diversity-news/ ... -netizens/

The last one might seem random but it's pretty indicative of how Chinese people think the Disney Mulan is ugly and not at all reflective of Chinese beauty standards but instead what American people think the Chinese look like. I used to have a better link featuring comments from Chinese people going on about her appearance but I can't find it anymore.

From what I've generally found, Chinese children who grew up with the film favor it whereas older Chinese audiences are the ones most critical of the film. On top of that, Asian Americans (whether they're Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, etc.) generally tend to love the film because it was their only mainstream portrayal whereas actual Chinese audiences don't have this issue so they're not nearly as forgiving. Other Asian countries like Japan and Korea have no love for Mulan because of it's nationalistic Chinese roots so you won't even find Mulan in those countries, especially in Japan, despite it being one of the countries that loves Disney most. The below link showcases that and it's actually pretty hilarious especially the ending remark by the Japanese media.

https://www.geek.com/tech/japanese-medi ... s-1658984/

“During the video report on Tokyo Disneyland, we stated that some of the characters were not from Disney properties. However, they are actually Disney characters that have been modified to appear more Chinese.”

Mulan. A character from a Disney film that takes place in China, was modified to appear more Chinese, for a Chinese theme park. Good one, Mister Sunday. Keep those Sino-Japanese relations strong.

I think the chinese audiences should be less mean and critical. I think they are acting like rude spoiled children.

You can't expet every thing in the movie tobe how you would like it. You are not the director or writter and you don't work at the studio. What matters is if the animation, comdey, story and voice acting is good not if it applies to your taste.

If you have a problem go make your own animated movies,
The studio is american they are going to make it a certian way tharr americans usually make animared famliy movies deal with it !

But i can't get to angry. Mulan is no masterpice and it isn't among my favorite Disney movies,

I find nothing offensive in it to chianse people. It isn't like that Bugs bunny Cartoon bug nips the nips.

[estefan]

I think the debate of whether the "Mulan" songs should be included is a good one. Though these Disney remakes often do inspire these sorts of divisive responses before release: Should they follow the animated movies closely or attempt to go in their own direction?

I consider "Cinderella" the high mark of this current trend. I think the animated film has a great soundtrack, but Kenneth Branagh felt it best to save the classic songs for the end credits. And I think that worked for the movie he wanted to make, as the live-action film went with very different characterizations and story directions. He still told the story beautifully and in a wonderfully charming and sweet way. Hearing "A Dream is a Wish Your Heart Makes" and "Bibbidi Bobbidi Boo" during the end credits was like a nice after dinner mint after the delightful meal I just had.

The live-action "Beauty and the Beast" was specifically constructed as a musical by Bill Condon, hence the use of the songs, rather than a straight forward take. Condon would only make the film if it was a full-blown musical. I actually found myself reminded more of the stage musical than the animated film while watching it, which might be why I have more of a fondness for that film than most.

I wasn't wild about the staging and performances of the songs in "Aladdin", but I blame that more on the direction than on the decision to include the songs altogether.

In the end, it's up to Niki Caro (and Disney, too, of course) whether to include the songs or not. If she feels her vision doesn't accommodate the songs, then we just have to wait and see how she executes the story. Going the "Cinderella" route and having new covers of "Reflection" and "I Will Make a Man Out of You" performed over the end credits would have a similar effect to Branagh's film. A nice way to make us smile while reflecting and thinking about what we just watched. But if Caro does ultimately include the songs within the movie (of her own accord, not fan pressure), I trust her as a filmmaker to incorporate them in a way that works, helping the movie rather than distracting or for easy nostalgia points.

[Disney's Divinity]

Guy Ritchie didn't want Aladdin to have songs, so I think the decision will ultimately have very little to do with what the director wants. I think, too, that Cinderella's soundtrack is weaker than those of TLM, Aladdin, B&tB, and that played its own role in the songs' absence in-film for that one. The films released in the '90s also come with an additional nostalgia factor for the parents taking their kids to the movies right now who grew up when those movies were being released. Which is one reason why, so far, the '90s remakes seem to be hewing much closer to the original films than say Alice, Maleficent, and TJB which were all drastically different. Even Cinderella doesn't feel much like the 1950 film at all to me.

[JeanGreyForever]

I think the chinese audiences should be less mean and critical. I think they are acting like rude spoiled children.

You can't expet every thing in the movie tobe how you would like it. You are not the director or writter and you don't work at the studio. What matters is if the animation, comdey, story and voice acting is good not if it applies to your taste.

If you have a problem go make your own animated movies,
The studio is american they are going to make it a certian way tharr americans usually make animared famliy movies deal with it !

But i can't get to angry. Mulan is no masterpice and it isn't among my favorite Disney movies,

I find nothing offensive in it to chianse people. It isn't like that Bugs bunny Cartoon bug nips the nips.

I'm sorry to say but this is a very tone-deaf reaction that reeks of hypocrisy considering your own post is incredibly critical of a culture that you don't seem to have much knowledge of. I don't think it's fair to be angry and oversensitive over the fact that the Chinese felt the film was culturally inauthentic or perhaps even offensive. You're certainly entitled to your own feelings towards the film and nobody is taking that away but likewise, it's not really your place to judge the Chinese if they perhaps did not approve of the movie. You may not find it personally offensive to you, but that doesn't discredit the views of those who do feel it relies on outdated stereotypes on gender, race, cultural values, etc.

[DisneyFan97]

I think the chinese audiences should be less mean and critical. I think they are acting like rude spoiled children.

You can't expet every thing in the movie tobe how you would like it. You are not the director or writter and you don't work at the studio. What matters is if the animation, comdey, story and voice acting is good not if it applies to your taste.

If you have a problem go make your own animated movies,
The studio is american they are going to make it a certian way tharr americans usually make animared famliy movies deal with it !

But i can't get to angry. Mulan is no masterpice and it isn't among my favorite Disney movies,

I find nothing offensive in it to chianse people. It isn't like that Bugs bunny Cartoon bug nips the nips.

I'm sorry to say but this is a very tone-deaf reaction that reeks of hypocrisy considering your own post is incredibly critical of a culture that you don't seem to have much knowledge of. I don't think it's fair to be angry and oversensitive over the fact that the Chinese felt the film was culturally inauthentic or perhaps even offensive. You're certainly entitled to your own feelings towards the film and nobody is taking that away but likewise, it's not really your place to judge the Chinese if they perhaps did not approve of the movie. You may not find it personally offensive to you, but that doesn't discredit the views of those who do feel it relies on outdated stereotypes on gender, race, cultural values, etc.

I can write several paragraphs about why i think the chinese people are ungrateful to Disney.

But i will just say this all the heros of the movie are chinese , non of villains in the movie are chinese , No chinese characters are portrayed as evill or cruel except the matchmaker.

Also China is a milatry dictatorship where no one has rights. So it's not in a postion to take the moral hgh ground i think.

Don't act like Ancient china was a utopia that should be shown respectfully. The needed to change things to make the people of that time and country at least seem a little sympathetic.

I am not racist but i have the right to critique a culture.

[JeanGreyForever]

I can write several paragraphs about why i think the chinese people are ungrateful to Disney.

But i will just say this all the heros of the movie are chinese , non of villains in the movie are chinese , No chinese characters are portrayed as evill or cruel except the matchmaker.

Also China is a milatry dictatorship where no one has rights. So it's not in a postion to take the moral hgh ground i think.

Don't act like Ancient china was a utopia that should be shown respectfully. The needed to change things to make the people of that time and country at least seem a little sympathetic.

I am not racist but i have the right to critique a culture.

I'd be quite interested in hearing the qualms you have against the Chinese people, since I can't see for myself why they would be ungrateful to Disney, especially since they must have a working cordial relationship as Disney established not one, but two theme parks in China.

It's not really a manner of the fact that all the Chinese characters are depicted as heroes, but more the fact that the Chinese felt most of these characters were not accurate portrayals of their culture. For them, they were not Chinese but purely Americanized (or in Mushu's case, "Ebonic") which is why your argument would not hold on them. You do have a point though that the actual villains of the film are not Chinese and I've seen some people of Mongol ancestry hold bad feelings towards this film because of how the Huns are clearly caricatures of them. Unlike how the Chinese were portrayed, the Huns' portrayal could be considered outright racist.

Except the people you are criticizing are not the actual Chinese government and leaders but the everyday Chinese citizens. There are people who hate the U.S. government but blaming the entire American population for the actions of a few of their leaders is pretty unfair and the same holds for any country, whether it's Russia, Israel, Germany, England, etc.

I'm not that familiar with Ancient China (and you have to keep in mind that there are so many dynasties that likely each dynasty had their own different views on matters) but here are what some people had to say about what life would have been like back then.

http://asiainamerica.blogspot.com/2012/ ... years.html

There’s no reason Mulan in her time period would want to “challenge the patriarchal system.” China was never as patriarchal as the west. We are talking about a dynasty that came before one where women had virtually the same rights and men and when the Empress Wu Zetian came to power. In fact the misogynistic song in the movie doesn’t make sense either. Chinese men aren’t like stereotypical western men who want hot chicks doting on them. They probably would prefer the kind of girl Mulan described. Many well known historical women in Chinese history were girls that “got a brain, who always speaks her mind?”

https://www.quora.com/Is-Disneys-Mulan- ... ese-people

Chinese Mulan was raised a hunter and warrior by her father, American Mulan’s dad did none of those things
Chinese Mulan is a powerful fighter who teaches the other soldiers her technique, American Mulan has to be taught how to fight and uses fireworks for major battles though ’cause this is a Disney movie
Chinese Mulan’s war comrades were surprised by her gender reveal but didn’t hold it against her, American Mulan’s comrades left her to die
Chinese Mulan’s family had no problems with her ‘tom boy’ personality and she had no problems with having a little sister who did ‘traditional feminine’ things, American Mulan sees masculine and feminine as a conflict of superiority and inferiority

Like… imagine if Disney made a ‘traditional tale!’ movie about those sexist Latino and African men and how girls need to defy their sexist fathers to modernize those backwards cultures. That doesn’t happen because there’s enough Latino and Black Americans to not watch such films, and the White American Hollywhites that make it happen have enough Black and Latino friends to go “Hey man that’s f’ed up, you don’t treat your old timey Europe stories like this”.

[DisneyFan97]

I can write several paragraphs about why i think the chinese people are ungrateful to Disney.

But i will just say this all the heros of the movie are chinese , non of villains in the movie are chinese , No chinese characters are portrayed as evill or cruel except the matchmaker.

Also China is a milatry dictatorship where no one has rights. So it's not in a postion to take the moral hgh ground i think.

Don't act like Ancient china was a utopia that should be shown respectfully. The needed to change things to make the people of that time and country at least seem a little sympathetic.

I am not racist but i have the right to critique a culture.

I'd be quite interested in hearing the qualms you have against the Chinese people, since I can't see for myself why they would be ungrateful to Disney, especially since they must have a working cordial relationship as Disney established not one, but two theme parks in China.

It's not really a manner of the fact that all the Chinese characters are depicted as heroes, but more the fact that the Chinese felt most of these characters were not accurate portrayals of their culture. For them, they were not Chinese but purely Americanized (or in Mushu's case, "Ebonic") which is why your argument would not hold on them. You do have a point though that the actual villains of the film are not Chinese and I've seen some people of Mongol ancestry hold bad feelings towards this film because of how the Huns are clearly caricatures of them. Unlike how the Chinese were portrayed, the Huns' portrayal could be considered outright racist.

Except the people you are criticizing are not the actual Chinese government and leaders but the everyday Chinese citizens. There are people who hate the U.S. government but blaming the entire American population for the actions of a few of their leaders is pretty unfair and the same holds for any country, whether it's Russia, Israel, Germany, England, etc.

I'm not that familiar with Ancient China (and you have to keep in mind that there are so many dynasties that likely each dynasty had their own different views on matters) but here are what some people had to say about what life would have been like back then.

http://asiainamerica.blogspot.com/2012/ ... years.html

There’s no reason Mulan in her time period would want to “challenge the patriarchal system.” China was never as patriarchal as the west. We are talking about a dynasty that came before one where women had virtually the same rights and men and when the Empress Wu Zetian came to power. In fact the misogynistic song in the movie doesn’t make sense either. Chinese men aren’t like stereotypical western men who want hot chicks doting on them. They probably would prefer the kind of girl Mulan described. Many well known historical women in Chinese history were girls that “got a brain, who always speaks her mind?”

https://www.quora.com/Is-Disneys-Mulan- ... ese-people

Chinese Mulan was raised a hunter and warrior by her father, American Mulan’s dad did none of those things
Chinese Mulan is a powerful fighter who teaches the other soldiers her technique, American Mulan has to be taught how to fight and uses fireworks for major battles though ’cause this is a Disney movie
Chinese Mulan’s war comrades were surprised by her gender reveal but didn’t hold it against her, American Mulan’s comrades left her to die
Chinese Mulan’s family had no problems with her ‘tom boy’ personality and she had no problems with having a little sister who did ‘traditional feminine’ things, American Mulan sees masculine and feminine as a conflict of superiority and inferiority

Like… imagine if Disney made a ‘traditional tale!’ movie about those sexist Latino and African men and how girls need to defy their sexist fathers to modernize those backwards cultures. That doesn’t happen because there’s enough Latino and Black Americans to not watch such films, and the White American Hollywhites that make it happen have enough Black and Latino friends to go “Hey man that’s f’ed up, you don’t treat your old timey Europe stories like this”.

Seems ancient china was pretty progressive. I didn't know that. I stand corrected.

I can see why chinese critics hade problem with movie if it made ut China to be sexist.

I was unaware that was not the case.

I still like Mushu.

And i can see why they made the character designs more americanized.

China has verydifferent beauty standrs.

I will stop complaining about this and just sa i lika Disney's Mulan. Mostly for the Mushu, The grandma and the Ancestors which i by the way i think should have hade a bigger role.

If the want to make the remake more pleasing to China i have no problem with that.

[JeanGreyForever]

Seems ancient china was pretty progressive. I didn't know that. I stand corrected.

I can see why chinese critics hade problem with movie if it made ut China to be sexist.

I was unaware that was not the case.

I still like Mushu.

And i can see why they made the character designs more americanized.

China has verydifferent beauty standrs.

I will stop complaining about this and just sa i lika Disney's Mulan. Mostly for the Mushu, The grandma and the Ancestors which i by the way i think should have hade a bigger role.

If the want to make the remake more pleasing to China i have no problem with that.

Ironically enough the elements you like most from Mulan are the ones that the Chinese had most problems with. If you liked the ancestors though, you might be pleased to know that in the original concept for Mulan II, the climax of the film was supposed to involve an epic battle between Mulan's ancestors and Shan Yu's ghostly army. That would be quite an interesting concept to bring into the live-action film, especially if the witch character uses her magic to bring the army's ghosts into play while they battle the phoenix and perhaps Mulan's ancestors.

[MrXemnas1992]

...is it odd that it took the news of no Mushu and no songs in this remake to finally be the straw that broke the camel's back and make me stop defending the remake trend and starting hating it?

[Farerb]

...is it odd that it took the news of no Mushu and no songs in this remake to finally be the straw that broke the camel's back and make me stop defending the remake trend and starting hating it?

I'm at the point of being indifferent to the remakes. Let them do whatever they want, the originals are still here and they are the ones that are still remembered. I'm only interested in their new animated films. I think you'll reach this state of mind once they remake your favorite film, which is what happened to me.

[Sotiris]

I think you'll reach this state of mind once they remake your favorite film, which is what happened to me.

Was that Beauty and the Beast?

[JeanGreyForever]

...is it odd that it took the news of no Mushu and no songs in this remake to finally be the straw that broke the camel's back and make me stop defending the remake trend and starting hating it?

I'm at the point of being indifferent to the remakes. Let them do whatever they want, the originals are still here and they are the ones that are still remembered. I'm only interested in their new animated films. I think you'll reach this state of mind once they remake your favorite film, which is what happened to me.

At this point, I'm hoping they stay far away from Snow White because if a film like The Little Mermaid is considered way too outdated for this day and age, I can't even imagine what they'll do to Snow White.

Anyway, for critics of the remakes, it's important to remember that these films are only in the public consciousness for a few months and then after that, they're pretty much never referenced ever again. The classic animated films are the only ones with any longevity.