JeanGreyForever wrote:I think Pocahontas also is so iconic because she's such an important historical figure. Pretty much every American child grows up knowing about her and she's frankly the most well-known Native American. There's a reason that Trump uses Pocahontas' name whenever he wants to refer to Native Americans, likely because she's the only one he knows of. I'm not sure how well known she is in the rest of the world, but I imagine that she's likely the most well known Native American in English history as well, considering her ties with them. This puts her on a par with iconic fairy tale characters like Cinderella, Snow White, the Beast, Aladdin, etc.
So Trump refers to Native Americans as Pocahontas? I didn't know.
You're right about her position, but The Three Commentears has a different take. In their commentary for the film, they mention that Disney's version was their introduction to Pocahontas (at least for the two of them). Which was actually the case for me, however. I remember seeing a teaser for the movie in January 1995 (on
The Aristocats VHS), without knowing anything about her ethnicity. When I learned that she was a Native American, my thought was that she didn't look like the stereotype of one (since Native Americans can look like different ethnicities) and due to the progressions of depicting non-White, exotic regions with
Aladdin and
The Lion King,
Pocahontas felt regressive, since Disney had explored the Native American community before in what has now become a predominant White environment (*cough,
Peter Pan, cough*).
But to be fair,
Pocahontas is about non-Caucasian people after all, so it passes for it. And please don't hate me for my non-politically correct comment, I'm just summarizing what my thoughts were at a child (because I do feel genuniely sorry for the stereotypical portrayals of Native Americans in Hollywood). I can link you that teaser, if you want to;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO9dPoXYWNc
Mulan, meanwhile, is a folklore hero that is pretty much universally known in China, but if it hadn't been for the Disney film, pretty much no other country would know her. And unlike Pocahontas, who still has connections to other countries besides America, Mulan is relatively tied to China, so there's no incentive for other countries and cultures to really know her. Perhaps another significant factor is that Japan is such a major Disney consumer and you won't find anything Mulan or otherwise Chinese-related there. Meanwhile Pocahontas has an albeit small following there. Even Hunchback, or at least Esmeralda and Clopin, have enough popularity to warrant inclusions in the Tokyo parks, unlike the rest of the world, including their home country of France.
Really? I didn't know about the latter. I guess that (stereotypically)
Mulan would have a representation that was suitable (no pun intended), due to being at her own region. But you summarize what has been something that I've analyzed with
Mulan lately, that her movie is essentially an adaptation about a story that is not known for a non-Universal audience.
I haven't seen Brave in a few years now so I wonder whether she would have grown on me, or if I would like her less. I never really hated her, but I was generally underwhelmed by her film so I haven't had many reasons to revisit her story.
I haven't seen
Brave in years either, but regardless of it's problems, I did like it, overall. So I guess it's somewhat of a guilty pleasure
I definitely agree with your parallels between Mulan and Pocahontas and I'm surprised that other people haven't been more receptive to that. You make a valid point that they have two very opposite stances on war.
Thanks
. But regardless of my previous rants, people do still compare the characters of Pocahontas and Mulan, mostly stereotypically, due to them being non-Caucasian leads. And that's what several critics have rambled about, too.
I've also definitely seen the Hunchback-Pocahontas parallels. I know we discussed this a while back, but stuff like the Menken-Schwartz soundtrack, the older, hunky, blonde captain paired with an ethnic dark-haired beauty, the xenophobia of the villain which almost incites a race war, the criticized comical sidekicks, and the general more realistic and mature tones of the films and subject matter.
True, but we have discussed that before. Yet
Pocahontas got criticized for the racial stereotypes, more than
Hunchback. Besides,
Pocahontas has a fair amount of even share of characters that are either Natives or English, whereas in
Hunchback most of the characters are white Parisians (with the exception of Esmeralda and Clopin, of course). In fact,
Hunchback was too politically correct to portray the gypsies as a persecuted people.
Another thing I just now noted is that compared to the rest of the Renaissance films, they are the most rooted in history as well, probably because the filmmakers really waned to make the films seem realistic. Pocahontas is given an exact date of 1607, like the actual historical event, whereas Hunchback is set in 1482, like the novel was. The previous Disney films were set in specific eras, but you could never really narrow them down to a specific year. I think this is even true of the Walt-era films, minus the contemporary films like 101 Dalmatians, The Rescuers, and maybe Dumbo.
Not quite. Both
The Aristocats and
The Great Mouse Detective were given specific dates of the years their stories takes places on. The funny thing is that both were released on VHS for the first time in Norway in 1995, so
Pocahontas being released theatrically that year followed their synergy
. Later on
Atlantis would duplicate to cite the year it takes place in. Yet
Hunchback's year is never confirmed in the movie.
I never realized that Mulan and Shang were unable to kiss because of their Chinese culture. Funny, since Chinese audiences criticized the film and character for being too westernized in the first place. Good thing they haven't seen Mulan II. She really plays the role of the prototypical Disney Princess, intent on following her heart and dreams there, unlike in the original film, where she's still set on abiding to tradition and culture.
Yeah, I felt Mulan's part in her sequel was prototypical, but still something that suited her, due to her nature was to somewhat defy her traditions and norms in her first movie, no matter how you put it. And yes, I know Chinese audiences criticized the film and character for being too westernized and perhaps she was that to them. But for a non-Asian, I thought there was plenty of Chinese and Asian flavor in the film. Heck, I felt there was more dedication to steep the film in an Asian culture than Disney done for Europeans cultures (though let's not forget that the creators of
Moana wanted to steep their film in Polynesian culture, following the mantra of having their culture swallow the American one).
I know that the New Orleans setting was chosen because Lasseter always wanted to do a film set there. I think it's his favorite city or one of his favorite cities. Basically TPATF was greenlighted because of the setting and because Disney needed a black princess and that could work in this setting, since Lasseter was unsure about an actual African princess like Aida working in animation. I imagine the interview you mentioned about a U.S. fairy tale having to be set in New Orleans probably came from him, so I'd promptly ignore it lol.
I know that New Orleans was chosen because of Lasseter. And it's a pity that Disney never managed to fulfill to make their own animated version of
Aida. Had it been released at the prime of hand drawn animation, it would've been an intriguing project.
Much like you, I'm not a fan of Tiana being a princess. It felt like Disney so desperately wanted to make sure that she would be well received by the public so they had to make her African American rather than African so that actual African American viewers would be able to connect to her. However, that's awfully contrived and I'm just glad that with Sade (or whatever her new name is), we'll be getting a proper African princess.
True. I don't hate her royal title with a burning passion, I just find it contrived. But I still remember that the complaints about Tiana's progression and royal weren't that huge. At least from IMDb users, since I used to follow IMDb more at the time. Of course I know about the rants about her not being black enough, but the complaints about the controversy that Tiana represents haven't been as huge, in my opinion. Anika Noni Rose has even talked about it in one of the interviews she did on The View;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apBGGp6vIeM. It's a pity that
Sade won't be a hand drawn property.
Tiana is the main character of her film, unlike Nani, so it makes sense that you would consider her more developed and fleshed out. I don't remember Nani having a big role in the TV series as you said either.
True, but a secondary character can be fleshed out as well.
When Aladdin came out, Jasmine did get criticism for seeming regressive coming on the heels of Belle. People complained that she felt more like Ariel, which wouldn't have been bad if Belle hadn't come in between the two. A lot of the goodwill that Belle had built up when it came to Disney's portrayal of women felt unearned after Jasmine reverting back to a damsel in distress. I know that originally she was never supposed to cry in the film and she was meant to save herself from the hourglass rather than require Aladdin's help. Personally, I'm happy with what we got, but I can see the live-action film taking cues from these original plans for Jasmine.
Perhaps, but they're obligated to do so, considering that we live in a politically correct, Internet-scrutinizing era. And due to all the havoc
Aladdin originally got , it will get more
I know about the complaints about Jasmine's regressive nature, but she was still praised for being independent in her own right. But remember that Ariel was praised of her independence, too.
Japan is very big on franchises like Disney, Harry Potter, etc. and even though Japan has their own theme parks for these properties, you'll still find that a large percentage of people visiting the American parks (whether Disney or Universal) tend to be Japanese. I read an article once that when Inside Out come out, it was in fashion for Japanese teens to carry plush Bing Bongs around and get him his own seat at restaurants. I also used to play a Disney app game on my phone and there was a leaderboard which showed which countries played the game the most. The U.S. was #2 and although I can't remember for sure, I think Japan was #1. It was either Japan or China and then whichever wasn't #1 was #3. I think England came after as #4 and #5 was either Germany or Brazil.
OK, I didn't know.
How do song lyrics translate in your country? Or are they not translated at all since I've heard that some countries keep the songs in English?
No, they're translated in Norwegian. In a proper way, though.
Since you're a big Lizzie fan, how did you feel about Miranda not being in the movie?
Big and big. I do have my nostalgic bias for it, though. And no offense, but I've already replied about Miranda's exclusion; It was a pity, though I didn't utterly despise her exclusion either.
I actually liked Ross Lynch's character lol. Maybe his acting wasn't the best, but I attributed that to his character more. Also, I think the actor has gotten some pretty high-profile gigs recently so his acting must have improved.
OK, I haven't noticed his recent roles. I didn't hate Austin the character, I just felt that Ross Lynch's acting was bad at times. Though to be fair, he was a skilled and energetic performer.
Yeah, I remember now that towards the end of Hannah Montana, they started pairing off Oliver and Jackson more together. I never really liked that since it was obvious that they were only doing so to keep the girls in the main story with the guys getting the subplot of the episode. Nevermind that Oliver was never friends with Jackson.
I liked that pairing, due to them being my favorite characters in the show. But I disliked Jackson's overall treatment of Oliver.
Miley became really insufferable towards the end, which I guess makes sense considering what the real Miley Cyrus was transitioning to.
To be fair, Miley Cyrus was never downright spiteful and mean towards the rest of the world as the character of Miley Steward. She did a couple of scandals, but were overall not a particularly hostile person. Though I remember that she used to rant (more than any other Hollywood celebrity that I've seen) about haters more than once in her prime (and don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting haters, I'm just citing this objectively). Apparently in 2013 she changed her attitude completely and said that haters kept her motivated. And yes, 2013 was the year where she truly gave controversy a new and overt vision.
Yeah, my preference for drama is probably why I don't have any bad feelings towards the Hannah Montana movie. I'm guessing that all the slapstick comedy was reserved for Miley's family, mainly her brother and father, because I don't remember the main central plot featuring Miley and her "boyfriend" having a lot of unnecessary comedy.
True, but the comedy in that movie was mostly reduced to slapstick and the wisecraks were mild.
I remember Taylor Swift had a song too since this was during the beginning of her career, but I never cared for Taylor back then so her song didn't do anything for me.
It was around that time where I got acquainted to Taylor Swift. Her song was fine, though and it was back then where her music was mostly country influenced. Back at the time, I used to like Taylor, more than now, though her music is still fine, though.
I think The Climb was the endcredits song or something. If I'm not wrong, I remember that was a hit song back then.
The Climb was not an end credit song, it was a perfomance in the actual movie. But I personally think it should've been an end credit-song, since it didn't fit the movie and just kept slowing it down (in fact, it would've been more reasonant in a more serious and harrowing plot than something as lite as
Hannah Montana). It was a hit song back then, but I've always found the melody to be utterly dreadful. Btw, do you like that song?
I'm not sure what the Disney fandom was like a decade ago, but I now that on Tumblr and similar sites, there's plenty of hostility. Especially with the Frozen fandom lol.
True, but the Internet was like that a decade ago. I'm glad that I've outgrown the phase of being completely shocked by users hostility and mob mentality. And frankly, the
Hannah trolls were my first real exposure to the hostility of IMDb trolls.
Was Macy the blonde girl from J.O.N.A.S.? If so, I only remember her from the Disney Channel Original Movie "Minute Men." I know that fans used to get her confused with the other two Disney blondes at the time: Meaghan Martin from Camp Rock and Tiffany Thornton from Sonny With a Chance. I can see why people would get the three mixed up, but I didn't really think any of them looked alike besides the shade of their hair. I suppose the fact that both Meaghan and Tiffany played antagonistic roles to Demi didn't help the confusion.
No, Macy was the brunette and was played by Nicole Anderson. The blonde girl was played by Chelsea Staub Kane. She was likable. Lately I saw her in the sitcom Baby Daddy. Tiffany Thorton was a fine actress and managed to play a snooty bitch, regardless of her likable nature. Meaghan Martin was suitable to her role.