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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:08 pm 
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It would be nice if they were able to make at least one new short per year.

Very encouraging to hear that someone out there is attempting a hand-drawn pipeline. :)

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:33 am 
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I just watched the trailer for Minions and I feel terrible that my cousins' children have to live in this generation.

It makes me sad that kids today will not watch a 2D Disney or Disney movie that has a *gasp* fairy tale title, but instead they would see an animated movie about living twinkles who talk like babies for 90 minutes and do nothing, but act stupid.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:57 am 
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I'm jealous of today's generation, honestly. When I was a kid, you had Disney animated movies, movies utilising the Disney formula and everybody else. Good lord, I actually saw Quest for Camelot in theatres.

Nowadays, there's a lot more variety in the animated films today in terms of the stories being told. Nobody is trying to copy off Disney (like in the '90s) or DreamWorks (like in the early-to-mid 2000s). Each animation studio is doing their own thing, telling the stories they want to tell in their own style. Even DreamWorks has moved away from their earlier pop culture-spewing style. Now, you can tell an animated movie from the director. It's not hard to tell what a Chris Wedge movie or Carlos Saldanha movie or Phil Lord/Christopher Miller film or Chris Sanders film is.

Even the live-action family films, the few that appear, are of a higher quality than most of what I got when I was a kid. When I was watching "Alexander and the Terrible Horrible No Good Very Bad Day", while nothing particularly special, I kept thinking about how genuinely funny it was and much better than the schlock I dragged my parents to see like Snow Day, Mr Magoo and Home Alone 3. There are a lot less of those types of family movies now.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:36 pm 
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I guess it's nice that there is more than one company succeeding, but I honestly don't feel like there's that much difference between the major studios to consider it a variety, tbh. I feel that way even when I see what animated shows they have on TV now. I'm sure part of it is probably "better in my day" syndrome, but I don't think it's untrue to say the greater the output, the more crap to sort through.

I can't say about live-action family films. I can't remember the last one of those I've forced myself to bear through, they're all pretty awful--then and now.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:17 pm 
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Has anyone seen "Over the Garden Wall" on Cartoon Network yet?

If not, here's Chapter 1:



So far, I really, really like it. It's intended for children, BUT there's little to no slapstick, crude humor, or dumbing down. It's really beautifully done, both animation wise and plot wise.

It's crazy (in the good way) how this idea of an animated miniseries, which is similar to my idea of doing the same thing albeit online, is now on Cartoon Network.

This show is not gonna bang the gong or anything, but I think it's so inspirational to have some sophisticated animated work, instead of unfunny slapstick with characters I used to enjoy (coughTeenTitansGocough).

I want to do something like this in my lifetime. :milkbuds:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:03 pm 
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I gotta say that Cartoon Network has really gone a long way since its Dork Age when they were courting putting live action shows on the network. I do say that a lot of shows featured on the channel have been really good with the exception of the atrocious super hero show that will not be named.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:54 am 
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I've recently watched the first six chapters of Over The Garden Wall and I love it! It's one of Cartoon Network's best and it shows that cartoons are still important after the 2009 "Dark Ages"... :huh:

Thank the Lord for Adventure Time and Regular Show.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:17 am 
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Musical Master wrote:
I've recently watched the first six chapters of Over The Garden Wall and I love it! It's one of Cartoon Network's best and it shows that cartoons are still important after the 2009 "Dark Ages"... :huh:

Thank the Lord for Adventure Time and Regular Show.


It has a Spirited Away vibe to it.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:34 am 
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In this episode of Disney's "Excuses for not doing 2D animation", all of your favorites are here! We have it all!


1. But we use it for making CG films!

a. We use drawings!

Quote:
“We have such a rich history of hand-drawing [at Disney] and Chris and I also come from a background of storyboarding,” said Hall, explaining how they developed the characters and their facial expressions early on from hand-drawing.
Source: http://www.screendaily.com/home/blogs/b ... 74.article


b. We use 2D animation principles!

John Lasseter wrote:
I was trained as a Disney animator on the traditional principles of the Disney artists. When I went and started using computer animation, I never forgot the traditional animation.
Source: http://www.screendaily.com/news/john-la ... 59.article
Quote:
[Lasseter] said that Disney-Pixar will continue to be a strong, filmmaker-driven studio that produces "stories from the heart" while also showcasing groundbreaking technology that combines the ideals of both 2D and 3D animated visuals.
Source: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/j ... has-742447


c. We use 2D animators to make CG look better!

Mark Henn wrote:
I’m bringing my expertise as a traditional animator, and I come alongside and partner with the animation supervisors and head of animation, and I work with the CG animators. [...] A lot of CG animators don’t draw, they aren’t trained draftsmen, and there’s a skill in drawing, a sense of appeal in the poses and expressions that I can help them craft in their scenes.
Source: https://www.yahoo.com/movies/meet-the-d ... 64897.html


2. But we love 2D animation!

Quote:
When asked if Disney has any 2D animated projects planned, Lasseter responded that he "still loves 2D animation".
Source: http://tenasia.hankyung.com/archives/348946


3. But we have to find the right story for 2D!

Quote:
Lasseter said that they recently produced a Mickey Mouse short and they are searching for a suitable story to use 2D animation.
Source: http://tenasia.hankyung.com/archives/348946


4. But it's up to the director to choose!

Quote:
Q: Do you see a future for more traditional forms of animation?

Kristina Reed: I don’t know about the rest of the world, but very much at Disney Animation, we believe the style of the film is up to the director. And if a director decided tomorrow that he wanted to tell his story with paint and we were gonna animate paint, we’d figure out a way to do it. Directors can decide they want to work in CG, they want to work in 2D, they want to work in some combo style, etc. We get together and we figure it out. We have a technology department that’s committed to whatever that look wants to be. That’s the only thing. It’s what the directors are feeling at the time.
Source: http://fancyshanty.com/2014/11/intervie ... -bighero6/

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:17 am 
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Just come out and say it, Lasseter: The executives don't want 2D at all. :roll: Like how they refused to do a fairytale until Lasseter begged them and when Princess and the Frog failed, they pulled Frozen and Giants faster than you can say "Mississippi" until Tangled came along. And it's very clear with the BH6 credits that Big Hero 6 was intended to be 2D.

But....and this is wishful thinking. Would it be possible ( :lol: ) that Giants got pushed back because they have decided to convert it to 2D?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:08 pm 
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Quote:
Disney PR bullshit


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:21 pm 
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Sotiris wrote:
In this episode of Disney's "Excuses for not doing 2D animation", all of your favorites are here! We have it all!


You do have to feel like laughing at the constant stream of excuses that they give out. Its like they don't think we are clever enough to notice the inconsistencies.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:38 pm 
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In the time Disney is trying to find the right story for 2D, other studios are doing so for them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0Ejpl3QFuU

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:58 pm 
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^I cant wait to watch that and Princess Kaguya!

also Over the Garden Wall looks cute...the backgrounds are really nice!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:00 pm 
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I'd say some of those aren't just excuses, but flat-out lies, like the very last one about how the director gets to choose. As far as we know, Musker & Clements wanted to do another 2D film following TP&TF, but Moana is 3D anyway.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:54 pm 
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Excuses, excuses...

I really think it's hypocritical of them to use 2D to help make CG movies, but they don't even bother putting effort into an actual hand-drawn movie! Really, regardless of whether they're not any good, I'm sick of seeing only CG Films from Disney lately! :(


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:04 pm 
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To be fair (I'm just going to quote what I've already said a few pages back in this thread in regards to that Popeye movie)...

Quote:
Why choose to restrict mediums when you can be innovative and combine two to have the best of both worlds?


Sure, I want to see another traditionally animated Disney movie too, but maybe *gasp* somebody just wants to innovate and try to bring both 2D and CGI at the same time into the picture? The first thing we heard about Moana was that it was going to be Paperman-style. For all we know, it was pitched that way. We still have no clue what it's going to look like. Not everything is just some conspiracy that Disney is trying to kill traditional animation. CGI has its merits too, and some creators may want to take full advantage of those benefits. I can't really blame them considering how much CG animation has drastically improved and made more versatile over the last 2+ decades.

I'm not defending Disney's PR denial in anyway; I just think that there's a valuable middle ground here that many fans ignore. Disney shouldn't give up on hand-drawn, but CGI is great for certain things too. A combination of the two is even better, since you get the benefits of both mediums. It's awesome that they're experimenting with that with stuff like Paperman and Feast, and hopefully Moana (I'll be really disappointed if not).

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:20 am 
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I don't consider it a conspiracy either--it's pretty blatant. Besides, traditional animation is already dead at Disney. Moana isn't going to be like Paperman, it'll be 3D. No, there is no official confirmation, before we start down that line, but I think expecting otherwise is just leading yourself on. What "some creators" may want doesn't really apply to M&C, since we know they were pursuing 2D last we heard (or even Frozen, which was originally conceived as a 2D film).

The reason the films are 3D is because that is what makes money. It has nothing to do with the medium's merits, or lack thereof.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:26 am 
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Disney veteran Mark Henn talks about 2D animation.

Quote:
Throwback shorts aside, it’s clear that the future of animation at Disney (and most of the feature-film industry) is in 3D-computer projects. Though often breathtaking in its capacity to create enormous, detailed scenes, the technology does lose some of the quirks that have been the hallmark of the art, which is why Henn calls it The Great Equalizer.

“There are subtle differences that show up in the hand-drawn world more so than in in the computer world,” Henn says. “We all work the same model sheet, but we all have our own slightly, varying drawing styles, which you don’t have in the CG world. There is no more of [being able to] identify a scene based on how it’s drawn, because you know the style of the artist. In the CG world, everything looks the same.”

Technological progress, though, is a fact of life. Henn is excited to be working on Disney’s next computer animated film, 2016’s Moana, and is very much enjoying his current role as a mentor and artist with the company. Still, as a traditional animator, he’s hoping that the art of 2D doesn’t entirely go by the wayside.

“I would hate to see it disappear completely, and I don’t think it will, because I think there’s enough people that enjoy the art and the drawing of doing 2D,” Henn said. “I think whether we do it or not, 2D animation will always be somewhere.”
Source: https://www.yahoo.com/movies/meet-the-d ... 64897.html


Former Disney animator Juanjo Guarnido talks about the hand-drawn animated music video he recently produced.

Quote:
The video, which was produced at Paris-based Fortiche Production, has animated segments hand-drawn in TV Paint by Guarnido and a small team of traditional animators with Disney feature credentials.

“2D! Traditional animation!” Guarnido exclaimed while Cartoon Brew watched the work-in-progress with him earlier this month at New York Comic Con. “I love CG animation. I’m totally happy that movies like The Incredibles and Tangled exist, but traditional animation is something different; it’s another art.”

As a companion piece to the video, Guarnido and his team are in the process of completing an art-of book titled Freaky Project. Written by Micael Beausang-O’Griafa with a foreword by Eric Goldberg, it will be made available in time for CTN Expo next month as well as online at BigWowArt.com.

“I don’t know,” Guarnido says. “Maybe in a tiny little way I contributed so people can become interested in hand-drawn animation again. I hope so.”
Source: http://www.cartoonbrew.com/music-videos ... 04614.html

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:01 am 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
I'd say some of those aren't just excuses, but flat-out lies, like the very last one about how the director gets to choose.

Good point.

Tangled wrote:
The first thing we heard about Moana was that it was going to be Paperman-style. For all we know, it was pitched that way.

Nope! It started as a 2D film. Check the Moana thread for details.

Tangled wrote:
A combination of the two is even better, since you get the benefits of both mediums.

That's highly debatable. In my opinion, there hasn't been a hybrid yet that optimally combines both mediums. Most of these hybrids are CG-based and don't take advantage of what 2D can offer. For example, Paperman looks 2D on the surface, but when it moves it looks somewhat stiff and not as fluid as it would be if it were traditionally animated. Same goes with Feast. I highly doubt a hybrid could ever successfully replicate the real deal.

Disney's Divinity wrote:
No, there is no official confirmation, before we start down that line, but I think expecting otherwise is just leading yourself on.

Actually, there is. The press release refers it as "CG-animated" and John Musker himself confirmed that the Paperman technique will not be used.

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