Frozen: Part IV

[jazzflower92]

You know when this movie comes out I will have this urge to do a critical interpretation of it. I mean this movie is just begging for it to happen. I know the Snow Queen fairy tale already has a lot of symbolism but I think Frozen will be reinterpretation of those themes.

[Mooky]

I'm just going to leave this here...



Source

I don't disagree with you. Yes, they look similar, by that's not a new phenomenon. When Beauty and the Beast came out, my friends and I remarked that Belle looked like Ariel. Sure, not exactly, but you can tell they came from the same studio. I also think there are sticking similarities between Little John and Baloo, Alice's sister and Wendy's mother, Cinderella and Katrina (from Sleepy Hollow), animals in Bedknobs and Broomsticks and those in Robin Hood, to name a few.

And then are the arguable cameos, like Jock and Trusty from Lady and the Tramp showing up in both 101 Dalmatians and Oliver & Company.

The difference is there was no social media back then for everyone to decry the end of creativity at Disney.

All those examples had a perfect explanation: time, technological and budget constraints. At this day and age things like these are inexcusable. I don't think it's a creativity issue, but rather laziness on Disney's part and a problem inherent to the (mis)use of CG. I too noticed similarities between Ariel, Belle and Jasmine (head shape in particular, when viewed in full face frontal shots), and Belle and Tiana, but there are clearly visible differences that set them apart, be it nose shape, eyes, or lips. And from Pocahontas onward, each and every female character had a unique, distinct design to them.

There's nothing wrong with studio having its 'look', but when said look is basically Tinker Bell-meets-Tangled for several movies in a row, I think it's time for a drastic change. Unfortunately, because conventionality is more profitable than unconventionality I don't think we will be witnesses to that change any time soon.

The most infuriating part is that some of the hand-drawn designs for all three characters were mutually incomparable, but something obviously getting lost in translation from one medium to another has sadly become the general rule.

[Edthehyena]

Yes. But when they try to innovate with original Pocahontas or Megara faceshapes people dont like it either So...

[NeverLand]

Hey guys! I got the opportunity to sample 4 songs frm frozen. Heres what I can share. The hans n anna songs kinda resemble a song frm hairspray. It sounds very modern with silly dance aroumd n sweeping cameras. Let it go was sung by else as she transforms,the scene looks great tho I dont get the fascination with sweeping camera shots. The kristoff song is kinda bland and olafs song is a bit like poohs everythongs honey song. All in all not ur typical disney essence songs. But I hope it soumds better with full orchestration. Personally I prefer tangled's songs. The hans n anna duet is kinda cheesy. That is all

I have listened to Kristoff song .. short but funny .. especially when he was trying to do Sven voice

[disneyprincess11]

Oh btw: Dreamworks is doing the tale of Ramayana (which Disney had the rights to, BTW)...

And with the Indian characters as monkeys. That’s right: The INDIAN characters are monkeys.

And let’s watch as NO ONE complains about this (the revised story and the Indian people being monkeys) at all since it’s a Dreamworks.

And if this was Disney’s project, all HELL would break loose, just like Frozen

Source: http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=80012

[qindarka]

I have the feeling plenty of people will complain. Don't know much about that project but on the face of it, it doesn't seem like such a smart thing to do.

Pretty sure the Ramayana is public domain as well so doubt Disney ever had exclusive rights to it.

[disneyprincess11]

Frozen has a new website and it's great! Trolls have character pages too!

[Warm Regards]

New Frozen poster.

[SWillie!]

oooo I like that a lot!

[unprincess]

reg: character designs looking the same....it also depends on the animator doing the character. Ariel, Belle, Jasmine, Mulan & Tiana will often look alike b/c Mark Henn had a hand in animating all of them to some degree. Ken Duncan's gals also look alike(Meg, Jane, Amelia.)

reg: Ramayana. How disappointing! I was looking forward to whatever the DW Bollywood movie was but I also had this fear that they were going to ruin it by just trying to mimic Kung Fu Panda, casting everyone as animals(something Im not fond off.) They could be doing a really epic fantasy ala HTTYD instead. Sigh...

I actually like this new Frozen Anna poster!

[DisneyFan09]

reg: character designs looking the same....it also depends on the animator doing the character. Ariel, Belle, Jasmine, Mulan & Tiana will often look alike b/c Mark Henn had a hand in animating all of them to some degree. Ken Duncan's gals also look alike(Meg, Jane, Amelia.)

That's true. As the matter of fact, Tiana looks as an amalgam of Mark's earlier designs. She especially resembles Belle and in the scene where she meets Naveen for the first time, she almost looks like Mulan. Mark's designs for females (excluding the hula dancers in "Lilo & Stitch", haha) are very recognizable, since their designs are soft, elegant, yet very feminine, as opposed to Glen Keanes broad and angular designs and Ken Duncan's more cartoony designes.

I actually like this new Frozen Anna poster!

Me too. One of the best Anna posters I've seen, really.

[Jules]

I just rewatched the latest trailer for Frozen and couldn't help thinking that the animation is exquisite.

I really think WDAS and Blue Sky Studios are making the most attractive CG animation as of late. What do you guys think?

[Sotiris]

I really think WDAS and Blue Sky Studios are making the most attractive CG animation as of late. What do you guys think?

I agree. WDAS and Blue Sky (only applies to Epic so far) make the most appealing naturalistic-looking CG humans. Although there is some necessary stylization, they don't resort to heavy caricature or photorealism like other studios. I would also include to this category DreamWorks' Rise of the Guardians and to a lesser degree Pixar's Brave.

[unprincess]

That's true. As the matter of fact, Tiana looks as an amalgam of Mark's earlier designs. She especially resembles Belle and in the scene where she meets Naveen for the first time, she almost looks like Mulan. Mark's designs for females (excluding the hula dancers in "Lilo & Stitch", haha) are very recognizable, since their designs are soft, elegant, yet very feminine, as opposed to Glen Keanes broad and angular designs and Ken Duncan's more cartoony designes.

I cant not see Mulan when i see Tiana, which is weird b/c they are 2 completely different ethnicities! Rapunzel looks like Ariel with Pocahontas style hair.

and I always wondered if Keane had a hand in designing Hercules b/c he looks a heck of a lot like human Beast.

[WonderNeverOz]

The most spectacular story of true love Disney has ever told

the description of Frozen(Anna and The Snow Queen) from the Japanese poster

Source: http://www.oricon.co.jp/news/photo/2029559/1/

Japan's doing it right again

[TheBlibaBlob]

After further explorations into the depths of the internet and reading people's thoughts on Lino Di Salvo's comments, and also news articles, I can say that the comments on those articles, such as Cartoon Brew (who really slam Frozen), have been similar to here. They say people get way over their head and they really need to understand it coming from an animator's perspective. People who have posted on feminist sites, as much as I agree for female equality, have slammed the comments and Disney and called Lino sexist because they don't get what they want in a film.
While I do agree Disney should try more diversity, not that they don't, in my opinion all of this hulla balloo about Lino's comments, coming from an artistic perspective, is just ridiculous.

The most spectacular story of true love Disney has ever told

the description of Frozen(Anna and The Snow Queen) from the Japanese poster

Source: http://www.oricon.co.jp/news/photo/2029559/1/

Japan's doing it right again

It's a little hard to see.

[Dragonlion]

After further explorations into the depths of the internet and reading people's thoughts on Lino Di Salvo's comments, and also news articles, I can say that the comments on those articles, such as Cartoon Brew (who really slam Frozen), have been similar to here. They say people get way over their head and they really need to understand it coming from an animator's perspective. People who have posted on feminist sites, as much as I agree for female equality, have slammed the comments and Disney and called Lino sexist because they don't get what they want in a film.
While I do agree Disney should try more diversity, not that they don't, in my opinion all of this hulla balloo about Lino's comments, coming from an artistic perspective, is just ridiculous.

Not necessarily. I mean I guess I understood what he was trying to say, that the emotional range of the characters provided them with an animation challenge, it comes of as a cheap excuse considering that all the male characters have special, unique appearances relative to other Disney male characters and themselves, but the two female characters look like Rapunzel clones. Also it is kind of sexist to say that female leads have to be beautiful all the time in movement while male leads can have a more wider range of expression.

[SWillie!]

Not necessarily. I mean I guess I understood what he was trying to say, that the emotional range of the characters provided them with an animation challenge, it comes of as a cheap excuse considering that all the male characters have special, unique appearances relative to other Disney male characters and themselves, but the two female characters look like Rapunzel clones. Also it is kind of sexist to say that female leads have to be beautiful all the time in movement while male leads can have a more wider range of expression.

This, unfortunately, is exactly the misguided mindset that is causing this whole uproar. Because you are looking at his comments aesthetically, rather than artistically, of course they come as sexist. But they weren't meant aesthetically. They were meant in terms of animation. A better choice of words to make his point clearer might have been "you have to keep them APPEALING." Appealing, as you may or may not know, is an actual animation term. It is discussed at length in a lot presentations that WDAS give at things like CTN or Inspire Days. To put it very very simply, appeal is what makes a character likable. It has nothing to do with their physical appearance. Notice that most of the female characters in Disney history were given to the some of the best animators of all time - Glen Keane, Mark Henn, Milt Kahl. Thats because putting appeal into a character is difficult. And putting appeal into a female[/] character is especially difficult. Again, it's not because of her physical appearance. You can have a horribly ugly character that is still very appealing. This is most likely what what Lino was referring to, and in his search for the words, he unfortunately landed on "pretty" in order to make his answer non-animator friendly. Nothing sexist about his intentions whatsoever.

When I visited the studio a few moths back, I was given a short animation demonstration. They were working on shots from the climax of the movie, and talked a bit about what they called "ugly face". They described ugly face as just that - the ugly faces that a character makes when going through intense emotion. And they talked about the fact that it was difficult to give Elsa those ugly faces and still keep her appealing - still keep her feeling real, believable, rather than a caricatured version of herself. If they didn't hit the right spot, it would take the viewer out of the scene. So, in fact, they are striving for the truest and most honest performances possible, while still keeping the animation itself appealing. Nothing sexist intended, but unfortunately they have been perceived as such.

[Sotiris]

Again, it's not because of her physical appearance. You can have a horribly ugly character that is still very appealing. This is most likely what what Lino was referring to, and in his search for the words, he unfortunately landed on "pretty" in order to make his answer non-animator friendly. Nothing sexist about his intentions whatsoever.

I agree and I'd like to add that non-caricatured male leads such as princes are even more difficult to animate and keep on-model and appealing than female ones. That's common knowledge in the industry.

[SWillie!]

Again, it's not because of her physical appearance. You can have a horribly ugly character that is still very appealing. This is most likely what what Lino was referring to, and in his search for the words, he unfortunately landed on "pretty" in order to make his answer non-animator friendly. Nothing sexist about his intentions whatsoever.

I agree and I'd like to add that non-caricatured male leads such as princes are even more difficult to animate and keep on-model and appalling than female ones. That's common knowledge in the industry.

Right. I only wish I had some kind of presence on Tumblr to try and make this argument where it's most needed. Unfortunately once some conspiracy like this gets going on tumblr, it's pretty much just like a wildfire. There's no stopping it, no arguing with it. Because no matter how logical or true your argument may be, you're supporting the 'bad guys'.

And really, it's not those people that can't be argued with that most troubles me, because obviously there's nothing that can be done to change their mind. It's those casual fans that may not follow this stuff day to day, and are much easier swayed wen they log on and see "DISNEY IS SEXIST" and just take it at face value. Jump on the bandwagon without really understanding the facts. I hate to think that something like this - a misunderstanding - is causing people who may not have thought negatively of the studio before to do so now.