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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:24 am 
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Disney threw out traditional animation and the only reason they brought it back is because of John Lasseter. That puts him in the good category. If you think otherwise, clearly you do not want 2D animation back.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:46 am 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
SWillie! wrote:
Says the man who would rage at anything Goliath posted (or anyone posted, really) about Pixar being good at the moment.
I "rage" at anyone who tries to lump me into a group or mischaracterize me as "raging"--including you, in this post--when I'm only defending myself and my position (which may or may not be shared by others). Because, as I've said multiple times, there are things I like about Pixar, and there are things I don't--I've never been uniformly one way or another, though that would suit your argument. The only reason you or anyone else like to write my behavior that way is because in your world there is no such thing as a criticism of Pixar unless it's done by a biased Disney fanboy--which, ironically, makes you (and the others who would do that) sound like a biased Pixar fanboy.


No. Because this argument right ^here^ is exactly what Disney fanboys use against the people who call them Disney fanboys. It's been said a million times. It's the exact opposite logic of what YOU are accusing US of doing.

I've never once implied that I think there is no such thing as criticism against Pixar. I've given plenty of criticism myself. But because I also praise them for the amazing studio that they are a majority of the time, you are now lumping ME into the "Almighty Pixar destroys all else" category.

I was not lumping you into a category. I was simply saying that, at the moment, with the whole Oscar debacle going on in the other thread, you would get upset at any positive mention of Pixar.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:28 pm 
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SWillie wrote:
No. Because this argument right ^here^ is exactly what Disney fanboys use against the people who call them Disney fanboys. It's been said a million times. It's the exact opposite logic of what YOU are accusing US of doing.
But isn't that what Pixar fanboys would say against the people who call them Pixar fanboys? :wink: Circular logic is circular.

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I've never once implied that I think there is no such thing as criticism against Pixar. I've given plenty of criticism myself. But because I also praise them for the amazing studio that they are a majority of the time, you are now lumping ME into the "Almighty Pixar destroys all else" category.
I know--it's called reversing the argument. I'm doing to you what you've done to me. It isn't fair or true, I know. Neither was your accusation against me.

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I was not lumping you into a category. I was simply saying that, at the moment, with the whole Oscar debacle going on in the other thread, you would get upset at any positive mention of Pixar.
Which isn't true. In that same thread, I've said that TS3 deserved to win the Best Animated Film award, and I also agreed that Monsters, Inc. deserved to win the year it lost (because it is a great movie). And there have been several threads where I've hugely praised the TS series. So I'm not sure where you've picked up this persona of me.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:28 pm 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
SWillie wrote:
No. Because this argument right ^here^ is exactly what Disney fanboys use against the people who call them Disney fanboys. It's been said a million times. It's the exact opposite logic of what YOU are accusing US of doing.
But isn't that what Pixar fanboys would say against the people who call them Pixar fanboys? :wink: Circular logic is circular.

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I've never once implied that I think there is no such thing as criticism against Pixar. I've given plenty of criticism myself. But because I also praise them for the amazing studio that they are a majority of the time, you are now lumping ME into the "Almighty Pixar destroys all else" category.
I know--it's called reversing the argument. I'm doing to you what you've done to me. It isn't fair or true, I know. Neither was your accusation against me.

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I was not lumping you into a category. I was simply saying that, at the moment, with the whole Oscar debacle going on in the other thread, you would get upset at any positive mention of Pixar.
Which isn't true. In that same thread, I've said that TS3 deserved to win the Best Animated Film award, and I also agreed that Monsters, Inc. deserved to win the year it lost (because it is a great movie). And there have been several threads where I've hugely praised the TS series. So I'm not sure where you've picked up this persona of me.


Keywords "at this moment" I haven't picked up a "persona"... just a momentary thing. Because of the Oscars, you seemed very anti-Pixar "at the moment." That's all I meant. It was never intended as an attack in the first place.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:06 pm 
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SWillie! wrote:
Says the man who would rage at anything Goliath posted [...]

Cutting it off there makes for a more appropriate observation. I get slammed by Divinity on every occasion, so I have gotten used to it. I don't feel badly about him at all, but apparently it's not the same the other way around. When I first came here two years ago, I said something negative about his musical tastes, and he has never gotten over it. Just let him be. His hateful comments on Pixar won't change anyone's minds about how great their movies are. :)


Last edited by Goliath on Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:52 pm 
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Still peddling that old story?

If anything, it was Brokeback. Or maybe the capital punishment? It's hard to tell--any discussion with you never ends until the other person walks away. As you would say, you’ve hardly changed my mind on Clarkson (incidentally, in a recent article, she was named “the best voice in the history of pop music," along other artists such as Madonna and Janis Joplin; dubious, yes, considering there have been many great voices but at least she gets recognition).

But, then, it would be hard to pin it down to one thing… :P I'm sure I'm not the only person here who has stories. You've only ever singled me out because I'm the only one who doesn't take your BS lying down. I don't dislike you as a person--because I don't know you--but your posts are consistently irritating. You're hardly a victim. I'm self-aware though--I'm sure I irritate many people.

And I'm not attempting to change people's opinions, if that were possible, but to express my own without being made to feel inferior for it.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:15 am 
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It's a bit of both. Yes, Lasseter (and Pixar) makes good movies, but that doesn't mean they should try to make every movie under the Disney or Pixar banner seem exactly like a "Pixar movie" so to speak. They specifically called Brad Bird over to Pixar to let him make The Incredibles to shake things up. Lasseter doesn't seem to want to do that anymore. Chris Sanders, Jan Pinkava, Glen Keane and Brenda Chapman all had to leave/step down because their movies apparently weren't good enough. Now is that really their fault, or the one of John Lasseter? Maybe he's become so confident after so many hits with Pixar, he doesn't think anyone else's way of making movies can be better than his own. I know making movies is a group effort, but that doesn't mean you should alienate every director that has a peculiar vision, that might not gel with that of the rest of the people. Lasseter should give a little bit more trust back to the directors.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:53 am 
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Elton John's furious with John Lasseter over Gnomeo and Juliet.

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Elton John has blasted Disney for not backing Gnomeo and Juliet to the hilt -- and then not ringing with congratulations after the animated movie became a box office winner.

“We fought resistance from the (Disney) studio for so long, and to be honest with you, the film has taken $75 million in America, and we haven’t had a message of congratulations from anyone within the studio,” the British singer let rip on the CTV daytime talker The Marilyn Dennis Show Tuesday (on Sunday, John went out of his way to thank the Disney guests at his Oscar viewing party).

“Gnomeo and Juliet took us eleven years to make. We defied all the odds and all of the people at Disney who said, “this wouldn’t be a hit,” John said on air with one of his legendary outbursts. “And it’s the biggest hit, but it could have been a bigger hit if Disney got behind it more,” he added.

Miramax financed the picture, which was animated at the Starz Animation studio in Toronto. John said Disney is red-faced over Gnomeo overcoming the odds to succeed at the multiplex. “They’re so ashamed, and they should be ashamed of themselves –they’re so afraid to congratulate us because John Lasseter of Pixar did not want us to make this movie that we still haven’t had a message of congratulations or well done,” he added.
Source: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/e ... ant-162863

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:17 am 
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KubrickFan wrote:
They specifically called Brad Bird over to Pixar to let him make The Incredibles to shake things up. Lasseter doesn't seem to want to do that anymore. Chris Sanders, Jan Pinkava, Glen Keane and Brenda Chapman all had to leave/step down because their movies apparently weren't good enough. Now is that really their fault, or the one of John Lasseter?


Glen Keane did not have to step down, he has publicly said that he had medical issues that meant he was unable to direct the film though he remained on the project.

I would say that none of us know the true circumstances of these changes. Could it be that the projects these people were working on were not actually that good and necessitated change? I don't know the answer but I wouldn't say that it's any one person's fault, changes like these happen all the time in the film industry.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:51 pm 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
Still peddling that old story? If anything, it was Brokeback. Or maybe the capital punishment? It's hard to tell--any discussion with you never ends until the other person walks away.

There are plenty of times when I walk away, when I feel like talking to a brick wall. Like almost every discussion I ever had with Disney Duster, or those two religious zealots on Off-Topic. But, I'm glad you're finally admitting that you are so childish as to hold a grudge against someone over a discussion on an internet forum. I mean, Lazario and me argue all the time, but you don't see me slamming him and blackening him all the time, do you? No, we're now discussing movies in the appropriate forum. That's because we are adults, and adults can let things go and not go ballistic over a dissenting opinion. :)

Disney's Divinity wrote:
But, then, it would be hard to pin it down to one thing… :P I'm sure I'm not the only person here who has stories. You've only ever singled me out because I'm the only one who doesn't take your BS lying down.

I'm not singling anybody out. There's simply nobody else who behave the way you do. Not even Disney Duster, whom I have argued with a hell of a lot more than I did with you. But he doesn't hold a grudge. But if he wholeheartedly disagrees with me, he'll let me know... and how! As does, for example, DisneyJedi, as you were able to witness. So to say you are "the only one who doesn't take your BS lying down" is not only a prime example of what a drama queen you are, but it's also completely misplaced grandstanding. But if it makes you feel good to pat yourself on the back... knock your socks off! :D


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:37 pm 
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Goliath wrote:
There are plenty of times when I walk away, when I feel like talking to a brick wall. Like almost every discussion I ever had with Disney Duster, or those two religious zealots on Off-Topic. But, I'm glad you're finally admitting that you are so childish as to hold a grudge against someone over a discussion on an internet forum. I mean, Lazario and me argue all the time, but you don't see me slamming him and blackening him all the time, do you? No, we're now discussing movies in the appropriate forum. That's because we are adults, and adults can let things go and not go ballistic over a dissenting opinion. :)
Actually, I wasn’t admitting to anything. That’s only you seeing what you want to see, as usual.

And you’re right--I only respond to you because I have a grudge. The drama! It couldn’t be because--gasp!--I actually disagree with you most of the time! No, instead the entire universe has to revolve around you. And if this post is any indication, I can actually believe you’re that arrogant.

Notice--I don’t consistently get into these kinds of discussions with anyone else on this forum but you, and I’ve had huge differences in opinion with many people on this board, and I've known almost all of them twice as long as you. Meanwhile, you have these types of discussions at least 3 times a month. It’s because every discussion you have has to have subtle personal attacks. At least you're not pretending to be subtle anymore.

And adult? rotfl Nobody who writes something like the condescending post above, with that holier-than-thou attitude, could be "mature" in any sense of the word. There’s nothing worse than a jerk with a God complex on the Internet.


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I'm not singling anybody out. There's simply nobody else who behave the way you do. Not even Disney Duster, whom I have argued with a hell of a lot more than I did with you. But he doesn't hold a grudge. But if he wholeheartedly disagrees with me, he'll let me know... and how! As does, for example, DisneyJedi, as you were able to witness. So to say you are "the only one who doesn't take your BS lying down" is not only a prime example of what a drama queen you are, but it's also completely misplaced grandstanding. But if it makes you feel good to pat yourself on the back... knock your socks off! :D
I'm the drama queen? You're the one who's attacked me in 4 different threads simulatenously, when I only responded to you in two. But, if it makes you feel better, you can believe whatever you want! It's normally not true anyway, so why should this be any different?

(btw, if you’re thick enough to think none of those were personal attacks, you really are blind--you only see them when they're tossed back at you)

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:37 pm 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
The drama! It couldn’t be because--gasp!--I actually disagree with you most of the time! No, instead the entire universe has to revolve around you. And if this post is any indication, I can actually believe you’re that arrogant.

People who disagree with me, generally make posts that contain arguments, instead of personal attacks, like you constantly do. So maybe it's time for you to throw in some arguments if you want to convince me or others of your noble intentions? Because as of yet, I haven't seen them.

Disney's Divinity wrote:
Notice--I don’t consistently get into these kinds of discussions with anyone else on this forum but you, and I’ve had huge differences in opinion with many people on this board, and I've known almost all of them twice as long as you. Meanwhile, you have these types of discussions at least 3 times a month.

That mean old Goliath! Boo hoo, he's such a bully! He's being mean to everybody! Let's call him out for disagreeing with people! That will teach him! :roll:

Disney's Divinity wrote:
It’s because every discussion you have has to have subtle personal attacks. At least you're not pretending to be subtle anymore.

That's funny, I thought you were the one attacking me. In fact, isn't that the whole reason we're having this off-topic discussion? SWillie has pointed it out, too, and SpringheelJack already remarked how curious your reply was to me, when I remarked Lasseter was this age's Walt Disney. So maybe you shouldn't be the one throwing the blame around...

Disney's Divinity wrote:
I'm the drama queen? You're the one who's attacked me in 4 different threads simulatenously, when I only responded to you in two. But, if it makes you feel better, you can believe whatever you want! It's normally not true anyway, so why should this be any different?

I'm calling out bullshit whenever I see it, be it in two threads or in four. Maybe you can't accept that, maybe you see them as 'personal attacks', but, like jpanimation said in another thread (he wasn't naming anybody specific), there are a lot of people on UD who take every criticism of certain tastes far too personal. You're one of them. I call out your conspiracy theories about Pixar and the Academy and you go ballistic...

Not. My. Fault. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:05 am 
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And yet another thread has gone down the tubes. Does someone have to issue a death threat before the moderators get involved here?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:59 am 
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Disneyphile wrote:
And yet another thread has gone down the tubes. Does someone have to issue a death threat before the moderators get involved here?


In my defense as a moderator, Disney's Divinity and Goliath have since made up in another thread. So I'm letting it be for now. :p

Back on-topic discussion question (sort of) -- which John Lasseter Hawaiian shirt styling do you like the best?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:24 pm 
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pinkrenata wrote:
Back on-topic discussion question (sort of) -- which John Lasseter Hawaiian shirt styling do you like the best?

Uh . . . this one!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:14 pm 
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That's a bonus feature I still want to see someday, John Lasseter's Virtual Hawaiian Shirt Closet in which you can dress a 3-D CGI model of John Lasseter in various Hawaiian shirts while he offers critiques ranging from "Aloha gorgeous!" to "I look like pu pu platter!"

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:47 pm 
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enigmawing wrote:
pinkrenata wrote:
Back on-topic discussion question (sort of) -- which John Lasseter Hawaiian shirt styling do you like the best?

Uh . . . this one!

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Was that from Bee Movie?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:45 pm 
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Semaj wrote:
Was that from Bee Movie?

Yep. If you believe Jim Hill, supposedly, Jerry Seinfeld was peeved off at John Lasseter for bad-mouthing Jeffrey Katzenberg at a post-Oscar party, so that caricature was put in.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:31 pm 
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estefan wrote:
Semaj wrote:
Was that from Bee Movie?

Yep. If you believe Jim Hill, supposedly, Jerry Seinfeld was peeved off at John Lasseter for bad-mouthing Jeffrey Katzenberg at a post-Oscar party, so that caricature was put in.


REVVEEENGEEE! :lol: :lol: :lol: What did John say about Jeffery? :?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:08 pm 
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Sotiris wrote:
Elton John Rips Disney With Rant Over 'Gnomeo and Juliet'
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/e ... ant-162863

Quote:
Elton John has blasted Disney for not backing Gnomeo and Juliet to the hilt -- and then not ringing with congratulations after the animated movie became a box office winner.

“We fought resistance from the (Disney) studio for so long, and to be honest with you, the film has taken $75 million in America, and we haven’t had a message of congratulations from anyone within the studio,” the British singer let rip on the CTV daytime talker The Marilyn Dennis Show Tuesday (on Sunday, John went out of his way to thank the Disney guests at his Oscar viewing party).

“Gnomeo and Juliet took us eleven years to make. We defied all the odds and all of the people at Disney who said, “this wouldn’t be a hit,” John said on air with one of his legendary outbursts. “And it’s the biggest hit, but it could have been a bigger hit if Disney got behind it more,” he added.

Miramax financed the picture, which was animated at the Starz Animation studio in Toronto. John said Disney is red-faced over Gnomeo overcoming the odds to succeed at the multiplex. “They’re so ashamed, and they should be ashamed of themselves –they’re so afraid to congratulate us because John Lasseter of Pixar did not want us to make this movie that we still haven’t had a message of congratulations or well done,” he added.


and yet, it ended up a relatively average film. Disney should've backed it more probably, but it wont be winning any awards soon. all Elton is talking about is it's commercial success.

and I luv the Bee Movie thing! oh, the irony!

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