Congresswoman Giffords (D- AZ) gravely injured in shooting

[Goliath]

Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in the head; 6 bystanders killed, including a district judge and a 9 year old girl. (The girl was born on 9/11/2001.) 12 people wounded. Shooter in custody. Congresswoman was on Palin's 'hit list'; told her supporters "do not retreat... reload!"

Shot US congresswoman Giffords in 'critical condition'

Gabrielle Giffords was the intended target, Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said

A US congresswoman is in critical condition after a gunman shot her in the head and killed six people in an Arizona shooting spree. Democratic Representative Gabrielle Giffords was shot at close range at a public meeting in a Tucson supermarket. The 40-year-old is under sedation, but the doctor treating her said he was "very optimistic about her recovery".

A 22-year-old man has been arrested and police are hunting for a second man in connection with the shooting. The suspect in custody, who was wrestled to the ground at the scene of the shooting, has been named locally as Arizona resident Jared Loughner, who is described as having a troubled past. Various former classmates have described him as "obviously disturbed" and a loner who had posted a number of anti-government videos and messages on social networking websites.

Local police, who have not confirmed the suspect's name, said they were hunting for a possible accomplice, who may have driven the suspect to the supermarket. They have released a CCTV image of a dark-haired man, described as aged between 40 and 50 and wearing a blue jacket and jeans at the time of the attack.

Left-wing commentators have accused right-wing politicians of creating a climate of hatred that allows such attacks. The rhetoric that instantly sprang up around the shootings shows the volatile, febrile state of American politics, says BBC North America editor Mark Mardell in Washington. Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said a consuming atmosphere of political vitriol centred on Arizona may have been a factor.

"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government; the anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous," he said. "And unfortunately, Arizona, I think, has become the capital. We have become the Mecca for prejudice and bigotry."

This anger had spilled into violence before, with Ms Giffords' office being vandalised last March after she upset Arizona conservatives by supporting Mr Obama's healthcare reform bill. Sheriff Dupnik said the congresswoman had been threatened by someone with a gun during her re-election campaign in November, adding that there had been other threats. [...]

Former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin, a conservative Republican, had placed Ms Giffords on a list of politicians she wanted to remove from office in November's mid-term polls. As a moderate Democrat who narrowly defeated a so-called Tea Party candidate in the elections, Ms Giffords had referred to the hatred during an interview with MSNBC. "We're on Sarah Palin's targeted list, but the thing is, that the way that she has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they have to realise that there are consequences to that action," she said. [...]

The attacker struck as Ms Giffords held one of her regular open-invitation meetings - which she called "Congress on your corner" - with her constituents outside the Safeway supermarket in Tucson at around 1000 (1700 GMT) on Saturday. The attacker then fired some 20 shots indiscriminately before being overpowered by members of the crowd as he attempted to reload what one witness described as a semi-automatic Glock pistol. He was then hauled away by police, witnesses said.

The six dead included a nine-year-old girl, federal Judge John Roll - who had served Arizona's legal system for 40 years - and one of Ms Giffords' political aides. In addition to the six deaths, police said 12 people - including Ms Giffords - had been wounded. [...]

More by the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12145076



Gabrielle Giffords on Sarah Palin's hit list, using crosshairs:





Special comment by Keith Olbermann on the shooting:

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/iq38N ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/iq38N ... 1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

[MagicMirror]

A very tragic event.
I think Sarah Palin is a ridiculous individual, but feel that laying the blame at her door for this incident is a little hasty. Jared Loughner's old classmates describe him as left-wing or liberal, as well as being critical of religion; his YouTube account also featured a video of him burning the American flag - not typical of a Palin or Beck devotee.

[DisneyAnimation88]

Some very interesting articles Goliath. I despise Sarah Palin and the prospect of her being elevated to the position of the most powerful individual on the planet scares me. That being said, she in particular cannot be held accountable for this senseless, horrific and tragic incident. The only person responsible is the deranged and unbalanced individual who committed these acts. Anyone who kills a defenceless, innocent nine-year-old girl deserves only one thing in my opinion, though that doesn't count for much.

I think, if anything, these articles prove that Palin is unfit to be in a position of power. While an unfortunate coincidence, her comments and the map with the crosshairs prove that she is ill-equipped to communicate with a mass audience in a society that contains such dangerous and volatile individuals.

We in Britain find ourselves in the same situation as America; our new government are spending their first term trying to rectify the mistakes of the previous administration and, in the process, earning the wrath of the public. I don't know enough about Obama's presidency and the reasons the American public are disillusioned with him to give any credible comment but, at this moment of time, I believe Sarah Palin as president could only be a bad thing for the international community as a whole.

[Goliath]

[...] That being said, she in particular cannot be held accountable for this senseless, horrific and tragic incident. The only person responsible is the deranged and unbalanced individual who committed these acts. [...]

I disagree. Words have meaning. Words are very powerful tools. Sarah Palin is a former politician and a contributor to a nation-wide 'news' channel. She (deserved or undeserved --I think the latter) has gained a lot of status from this and therefore, here words are being taken very seriously by a lot of people. In a country with a history of so many political assassinations (John and Robert Kennedy, Dr. Martin Luther King, the attempt on Reagan), she should and could have known better. She should and could have known what she did could trigger some people (no pun intended).

Since the shooting, her website with the crosshairs on the map has been taken down. She has scrubbed the name of Rep. Giffords of her list. Why did she do that? It implies guilt or at least the feeling of guilt.

And let's not forget this was not the first time Democratic members of Congress have been threatned and intimidated by the far right Tea Party.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/eH5US ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/eH5US ... 1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

That's what you get when people at a political rally scream Obama should be hanged and Senator McCain doesn't object; or when vice-presidential candidate Palin says her opponent "pals around with terrorists". Glenn Beck joked about poisining Speaker Pelosi. Tea Party candidate Sharron Angle talked about "Second Amendment solutions" if she lost to Democrat Harry Reid (the Second Amendment says citizens have the right to carry weapons). And what about this ad from Gifford's Tea Party opponent Jesse Kelly:

[DisneyAnimation88]

Well, I've never seen those things that you posted about the Tea Party so I'm clearly ill-informed on the matter. On the news in Britain, a lot of the coverage on the Tea Party was focused on Palin and the candidate who apparently had once been involved in witchcraft so I am going on opinions I have formed from watching Palin over the last three years. The comment you made about JFK, Martin Luther King and other assassinated political figures is something I whole-heartedly agree with, that such influential figures of today must learn from the tragedies and mistakes of the past. It only serves to increase my trepidation at the possibility that this woman could be president one day.

[MagicMirror]

Again, while I dislike Sarah Palin, I doubt a man who burned the American flag and claims either to hate or not believe in God would want her to be in the White House.

[Disney's Divinity]

It's hard to believe a liberal would want to shoot a liberal in power. But I can't pretend to understand why anyone would want to commit murder (barring extreme reasons).

Regardless of her involvement, Sarah Palin's a complete psycho. It's strange that people forget that she is one of the biggest reasons McCain stood no chance winning last election. Now she's being praised like a saint come down from heaven. She needs to just stick with her reality show and fade away with what very little dignity she has. Maybe go on Dancing With the Stars for a season or something.

[jpanimation]

Well we can't know for sure if this was politically motivated (imagine if Travis had killed the politician in Taxi Driver and the blame game the political parties would've played, even though we know he had completely unrelated motivations). Crazy people don't always do things for the reasons we expect (sometimes it's just knowing there is cameras around and they want attention) and I find it disheartening that the Democratic Party is trying to use this tragedy for political gain. Releasing "information" linking the suspect to the Tea Party (seizing an opportunity) when their fellow Congresswoman and many other innocents (including a child) may loose/have lost their lives is just distasteful. The only facts we have at the moment is that this kid was a hardcore leftist and a drug abuser.

[Lazario]

Well we can't know for sure if this was politically motivated (imagine if Travis had killed the politician in Taxi Driver and the blame game the political parties would've played, even though we know he had completely unrelated motivations). Crazy people don't always do things for the reasons we expect (sometimes it's just knowing there is cameras around and they want attention) and I find it disheartening that the Democratic Party is trying to use this tragedy for political gain. Releasing "information" linking the suspect to the Tea Party (seizing an opportunity) when their fellow Congresswoman and many other innocents (including a child) may loose/have lost their lives is just distasteful. The only facts we have at the moment is that this kid was a hardcore leftist and a drug abuser.

Hardcore leftist? Does not compute. Please define.

[UmbrellaFish]

Regardless of whatever political side of the fence you fall on, I think we can all agree that this is a horrible, heartbreaking tragedy.

My thoughts go out to the victims of the shooting and their family members, and I pray all of the wounded have full recoveries.

[Goliath]

Again, while I dislike Sarah Palin, I doubt a man who burned the American flag and claims either to hate or not believe in God would want her to be in the White House.

I don't know if any of that information is true. And I don't know if your conclusion is true. The shooter, from what I've heard, seems to have a profound hatred against the government and the 'Washington establishment'. Sarah Palin presents herself as the embodiment of the anti-elite. There could very well be a connection there.

But it's besides the point. This is not the first attack on Congresswoman Giffords. Her office has been vandalized before and she has said on national tv how concerned she was for being on Palin's 'hist list'. But this isn't just about Palin and Giffords. A lot of Democratic politicians have been threatened or hace been fysically intimidated, like summed up in the video above (and that video was from the summer of 2009). When people in the media make repeated remarks about killing liberals/Democrats, someday this will have consequences. And it's likely this was the case with the shooting in Arizona.

It's hard to believe a liberal would want to shoot a liberal in power. But I can't pretend to understand why anyone would want to commit murder (barring extreme reasons).

I haven't heard the shooter is a 'liberal'. I have heard he shooter is vehemently anti-government. Gabrielle Giffords is most certainly not a 'liberal'. She is a former Republican who only recently made the switch to the Democratic Party. Maybe the crazies in that party were too much for her to take? I mean, even Arlen Specter, of all people, is a Democrat these days! Hardly liberals at all. The belief that 'Democrats = liberals' has been wrong since at least the establishment of the DLC and the election of right-wing corporatist Bill Clinton.

Well we can't know for sure if this was politically motivated (imagine if Travis had killed the politician in Taxi Driver and the blame game the political parties would've played, even though we know he had completely unrelated motivations). Crazy people don't always do things for the reasons we expect (sometimes it's just knowing there is cameras around and they want attention) and I find it disheartening that the Democratic Party is trying to use this tragedy for political gain. Releasing "information" linking the suspect to the Tea Party (seizing an opportunity) when their fellow Congresswoman and many other innocents (including a child) may loose/have lost their lives is just distasteful. The only facts we have at the moment is that this kid was a hardcore leftist and a drug abuser.

You couldn't be more wrong about everything you just said. First of all, NOBODY in the Democratic Party is trying to use this tragedy for political gain. I'm sure that's how this is being spun in the right-wing media, but it's simply not true. What I have seen, is Democratic politicians pointing out that the national discourse has to change and that people in the media need to take their responsibility. The 'hit list' of Palin has been discussed before and has drawn sharp criticism long before the incident in Arizona happened. People within the Democratic Party are merely adressing this issue, and they have every right to do that, especially now that one of them has been SHOT IN THE HEAD! It's a wonder that there are even people here who criticize Democrats for pointing out that, in a country with a history of assassinations of politicians, it's a BAD idea to put crosshairs over their names! I thought that was the ONE thing everybody could agree on...

By the way, I just heard that lying scumbag Sean Hannity (who one UD member was stupid enough to nominate for a UD Award in the category 'News' Program) say that the Republicans never used a tragedy for political gain. Somebody should really remind Sean of 9/11. You know, it's unbelievable! A Democrat gets shot in the head and somehow, the Democrats STILL get the blame! The American right-wing media would have made Joseph Goebbels proud.

You call linking the Tea Party to this attack "distasteful". I know you're a big fan of that group of paranoid delusional racists (still believing it's about taxes and big goverment, which it's not), but do you know what's REALLY "distasteful" (besides putting crosshairs on Democrats and calling for 'Second Amendment remedies')?




Second, do you still believe in the 'crazy lone gunman' theory? Because I don't. Not after John and Robert Kennedy; Martin Luther King; Malcolm X and attempts on others. The 'lone gunman' is a distraction to ease and calm the public. Keep the public from looking into it a little deeper. How do we know he was a "hardcore leftist"? Because he was vehemently anti-government? I thought left-wingers were in favor of big government? The right-wing media is trying to pin this on the left, too. They're trying to wash away the blood on their hands, like Pontius Pilatus did.

Regardless of whatever political side of the fence you fall on, I think we can all agree that this is a horrible, heartbreaking tragedy.

My thoughts go out to the victims of the shooting and their family members, and I pray all of the wounded have full recoveries.

Amen to that. (I'll just send good thoughts, but the meaning's the same.)

[Disney's Divinity]

It's hard to believe a liberal would want to shoot a liberal in power. But I can't pretend to understand why anyone would want to commit murder (barring extreme reasons).

I haven't heard the shooter is a 'liberal'. I have heard he shooter is vehemently anti-government. Gabrielle Giffords is most certainly not a 'liberal'. She is a former Republican who only recently made the switch to the Democratic Party. Maybe the crazies in that party were too much for her to take? I mean, even Arlen Specter, of all people, is a Democrat these days! Hardly liberals at all. The belief that 'Democrats = liberals' has been wrong since at least the establishment of the DLC and the election of right-wing corporatist Bill Clinton.

That was a bit more in response to MagicMirror, as in, “It isn’t typical of a leftist to shoot another leftist either.”

And, yeah, from the news coverage I’ve seen, he was mostly anti-government. He even identified himself as a “terrorist.” A friend said he had met and corresponded with Giffords before, and how he afterwards said (about Giffords and other politicians), “They just don’t get it.” Obviously he was talking about how disconnected our politicians’ styles of living/thinking are so unlike those of the people they represent (I guess like “rich people who rule the poor,” and how the rich would have no idea how the poor live).

The Republicans’ hit list thing is scary though. It’s just further evidence that the right disguises its motives with religion, that, if you’re Christian, you’ll vote for “the Right.” And because of this, anyone who doesn’t vote right must not be a Christian, which means they must be working for Satan, and thus it’s not so bad if they die. Which is sick.

I hope Giffords lives and returns to politics though--to show that shooting someone isn't going to silence the position they represent.

[Disney Duster]

My thoughts go out to the victims of the shooting and their family members, and I pray all of the wounded have full recoveries.

Amen to that. (I'll just send good thoughts, but the meaning's the same.)

How is the meaning the same when you won't go the extra step UmbrellaFish did? And that I just did, as well.

If you don't think the latter action is going to do anything, how is the former action...going to do anything? And the latter action will do more of course.

[Goliath]

Amen to that. (I'll just send good thoughts, but the meaning's the same.)

How is the meaning the same when you won't go the extra step UmbrellaFish did? And that I just did, as well.

Please shut the f--- up and save the religious preaching for another time. This is not the time nor the place to do this. I'm sending my good thoughts and in my book, that's equivalent to talking to an imaginary man, okay? We are talking about a wounded woman and the families of 6 murdered people, including a 9 year old. So PLEASE, lay of the preaching for once. (I can't even believe you had the arrogance and the guts to bring THAT up, here and now.)


@ Disney's Divinty: I totally agree with what you said. I'm sorry if I came off 'angry'.

[jpanimation]

First of all, NOBODY in the Democratic Party is trying to use this tragedy for political gain.

“They need to deftly pin this on the tea partiers,” said the Democrat. “Just like the Clinton White House deftly pinned the Oklahoma City bombing on the militia and anti-government people.”

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/01 ... Page2.html

You call linking the Tea Party to this attack "distasteful".

It's not who they were blaming I was calling distasteful, it was the timing. Giffords is in critical condition, the other victims haven't even been buried yet and their family and friends are still in mourning. It's too soon to be using this tragedy for political gain.

Second, do you still believe in the 'crazy lone gunman' theory?

I don't know what to believe, as not all the facts have been released yet. I was simply saying that I wasn't going to jump to any conclusions, as anything is possible (and I love movie references lol).

Anyways, the latest claims that he was a part of Rep. Giffords' political campaign a while back and supposedly didn't like how he was treated. There is also rumors that he was sending death threats by phone to the community college he got kicked out of, radio personalities and local bloggers. This unstable behavior was supposedly on record at the local police and they failed to do anything about it.

[MagicMirror]

I agree that the vitriol and gun/war comparisons in political publicity should be toned down, and the death threats to pro-healthcare politicians are probably a result of the likes of Palin and Beck sensationalising the democrats' proposals (as someone living in the U.K., I can't begin to say how wonderful it is that we have a National Health Service - and I'm a libertarian). I just don't think that this particular incident had much to do with it, even though it could have. The elephant in the room with regards to the level of gun crime in America is the Second Amendment - something which is unlikely to change.

I don't often agree with (U.K. Labour Party-supporting magazine) The New Statesman, but I think they've hit the nail on the head.

In the recent protests over tuition fee reform in London participants carried effigies of Nick Clegg hanging from gallows and on fire. Barely an eyebrow has been raised over it - it's all part of the political game.

[Goliath]

First of all: I'm sorry for my harsh tone before. I was engaging in the same emotional rhethoric I was criticizing. So I apologize for the harsh tone, and I praise jpanimation for not reacting to it. But I won't hide the fact that I'm angry with the media for trying to blame Democrats and make false equivalencies between so-called 'leftist hate speech' and the institutionalized eliminationist rhethoric from the right.

“They need to deftly pin this on the tea partiers,” said the Democrat. “Just like the Clinton White House deftly pinned the Oklahoma City bombing on the militia and anti-government people.”

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/01 ... Page2.html

'Politico' is a notoriously untrustworthy 'news'-site and I cannot take seriously an anonimous source from what could well be a very low-profile Democrat who's merely stating his own opinion.

It's not who they were blaming I was calling distasteful, it was the timing. Giffords is in critical condition, the other victims haven't even been buried yet and their family and friends are still in mourning. It's too soon to be using this tragedy for political gain.

You conflate calling for moderation in the political discourse with 'making political gain'. Something that has been long overdue, as the video from the summer of 2009 shows (as posted above).

I don't know what to believe, as not all the facts have been released yet. I was simply saying that I wasn't going to jump to any conclusions, as anything is possible (and I love movie references lol). [...]

I have read that the shooter called abortions "acts of terrorism"; that he wanted the country to go back to the Articles of Federation. So it's hard to say who he really is, but certainly not a liberal. We'll have to wait a bit, but since Oswald and Sirhan, I've always been suspicious of the 'lone nut' theory. (By the way, ever seen Arlington Road?)

I don't often agree with (U.K. Labour Party-supporting magazine) The New Statesman, but I think they've hit the nail on the head.

I wasn't even halfway through the first paragraph when I already couldn't take the piece seriously anymore. I mean, treating Lee Harvey Oswald as a 'lone gunman' and describing Richard Nixon as a 'fanatical liberal' doesn't really show any knowledge of/respect for historical facts.

Also, I find it very distasteful of the writer to blame the left, which has been under constant attack from the far-right since at least the candidacy of then-Senator Obama, for pointing out the eliminationist, violent, dangerous comments made day in, day out on far right national tv and radio. It's hypocritical of the writer to lay the blame with those who have been attacked for years and who are now finally standing up for themselves.

But what little credibility the writer would have had by the time I came halfway the article, he completely lost when he blatantly lied that "The last time the United States witnessed a sustained programme of organised political violence, bigotry and intimidation was in reaction to the civil rights advances of the 1950s and 1960s." The writer must have lived in a vault for the last two years and must have missed all acts of violence and death threats to Democratic politicians summed up in the video above --which is really only the tip of the iceberg. Olbermann has more:

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/8xXOb ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/8xXOb ... 1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

And then the writer calls political assassinations "isolated attacks". Any chance he also believes in the magic bullet theory?

His equivalence of right-wing hate speech with left-wing hate speech are completely false. He compared a map with rifle cross-hairs, made by a prominent former vice-presidential candidate and contributor to a major national tv network to people who say Pastor Jones should've been banned from England to meet with his nazi friends. Banned. Not silenced, not targeted, not eliminated, but banned. If this is the only instance the writer can think of, I think he has just proven MY point.

This piece is drivel, it stinks and it's factually incorrect.

[Disney Duster]

I can't believe Sarah Palin used crosshairs. That's really bad. She wasn't really thinking.

Goliath, God's not imaginary, or for all we know even a man. If you can't see, in the very words written, that there is a difference between sending good thoughts, and praying to something you believe is real and not imaginary to help those people and believe it will really, truly help those people just as much as you truly believe in the thing you are praying to, is different, then...I simply don't believe you. You do know the difference.

[Goliath]

Goliath, if you can't see, in the very words written, that there is a difference between sending good thoughts, and praying to something you believe is real and not imaginary to help those people and believe it will really, truly help those people just as much as you truly believe in the thing you are praying to, is different, then...I simply don't believe you. You do know the difference.

I already asked you to quit the religious preaching. It's inappropriate to do so at this time, in this place. So I'll ask you again: quit the preaching and PLEASE, drop this attitude that somehow people who 'pray' are somehow superior to others. It's distasteful.

[Goliath]

@ all who think there's no connection between hate-filled, violent, eliminationist rhethoric in politics and media and the fatal shooting in Arizona, I ask you (no, in fact, I DARE you) to take 15 minutes and watch this video entirely, from beginning to end:

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/tyqmZ ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/tyqmZ ... 1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Then I want you to tell me how I was wrong for making the connection and how everything that was said and demonstrated in the video is false.