Cinderella Discussion

[Will Barks]

I just saw Cinderella again yesterday. It's such a great, humorous film.

Now one thing I was amazed by.
At the moment I'm reading Sigmund Freud's "Die Traumdeutung" (The Interpretation of Dreams). The core statement of Freud's book is dreams are always wishes (wish-fulfillments, to be precise).

Now to Cinderella, what does Cinderella tell us? A dream is a wish your heart makes. Freud could have said the exact same thing! Heart is a non scientific synonym for the subconscious, for your soul.

So much to the subtle content of Disney Animated Classics.

[Prudence]

Oh, the entirety of the Cinderella franchise is insanely Freudian. For just the tip of the iceberg, haven't you ever notice how similar the Prince is to Cinderella's father?

Cinderella is a childhood favorite, though. Always will remain a favorite.

[Want2beBelle]

I just saw Cinderella again yesterday. It's such a great, humorous film.

Now one thing I was amazed by.
At the moment I'm reading Sigmund Freud's "Die Traumdeutung" (The Interpretation of Dreams). The core statement of Freud's book is dreams are always wishes (wish-fulfillments, to be precise).

Now to Cinderella, what does Cinderella tell us? A dream is a wish your heart makes. Freud could have said the exact same thing! Heart is a non scientific synonym for the subconscious, for your soul.

So much to the subtle content of Disney Animated Classics.

Me 2 i was also watching B&TB to compare the two, i always have a hard time picking my favorite, i just wish the Prince and cinderella had more screen time

[pap64]

Funny how Cinderella is harpooned the most for "corrupting" girls, yet its also quite deep and human in its story. You can dissect so many things from it you will be amazed the story is centuries old and still applies to us.

[kurtadisneyite]

Versions of the Cinderella story existed in BC Egypt (she was called Rhodopis, her savor the God Horus, and a slipper was involved.); you can find it on the web by Google searching for Egyptian cinderella. Same is true for BC China.

For whatever reason, this story, evolving as years pass, has stood the test of time.

[Disney Duster]

! Thanks everyone talking about this wonderful film...

Oh, Prudence, so you also noticed the Prince looking like Cinderella's father! And what about this:

I read (on Wikipedia...but I think it's right) that according to how monarchies work in real life, there couldn't be a Duke in Cinderella's tiny kingdom unless the Duke was the Prince's brother. And it said they look nothing alike. But actually he kind of looks like a cross between the King (nose) and the Prince (hair).

I also read a little on King Louis XIV having, I think, a homosexual brother who would have been King but was made into a Duke because they didn't like him. Oh, and the style of King Louis XIV is supposed to be the style of architecture the film has. I think the background guy Claude Coates said it... But um, this guy, Phillipe was Louis' younger brother, and Cinderella's Duke looks older than the Prince, though I could see him as younger or the same age, but he probably isn't gay, I mean people even think the Prince seems gay...

Also kind of related to that and what pap said about the film, I recently felt like Cinderella. I'm gay and some guy who once said he might be bisexual, though he's not sure if he's with his long distance girlfriend or not, I was attracted to how he looked, and he looked like another guy I fell deeply for, but then he was caring and touchy feely toward me, though he gives everyone hugs, and finally we talked about philosophical things and I felt something in my stomach. But then he went to the movies and didn't ask if I wanted to come even give me a hug goodbye, though he said goodbye. And I thought over this prince and going to this occasion where people were having fun and when I sat down on a bench I wanted to cry like Cinderella, but also didn't want to, too, I just felt like it.

I thought of the pain of feeling worthless, pain over a prince, pain over not being invited, not going to the big social occasion. I thought of how I liked how he looked from the beginning and wondered if his inside would match that and he would be like the kind of guy I would like, and maybe he is, but we talked about something deep and important to me and I thought we connected and I thought about love at first sight verses falling in love when you talk and get to know each other and how Cinderella has love at first sight, though we don't know what happened or what they could have said when far away from us, when we cut away from them, or during that dream sequence "So This is Love".

I also thought about Disney's Cinderella doesn't cry when she first can't go to the ball, it's when her stepfamily is they're most terrible to her, shattering her beliefs. And she felt very worthy of going to the ball. But she was still sad. But what Cinderella felt, if it was over the ball and the Prince, getting to be where it's at, feeling worthy among the people, if it was like that for Disney's version, though it's probably all versions, I think I felt that, and it was big and dramatic and worth all peoples' and all ages' and all genders' attention to see, hear, and feel it in a story as well as real life.

[pap64]

I think Cindy cried for many reasons, one of them being that her mother's dress, the only thing she had to remember her by, was destroyed along with the hope of going to the ball.

It was a breaking point for her. She put up with many things with a smile in her face and a song in her heart. But the denial of the deal they made, the destruction of her dress and the sarcastic tone of her family, that was too much.

I think many people, beyond girls and women, identify with Cinderella because everyone of us at one point looked up to the sky and wonder if fighting for a dream is worth it. It's a dream that keeps us going through life's problems, envious people are the ones that destroy it, but out of nowhere comes a little bit of hope that makes everything better in the end.

The midnight deadline also symbolizes, to me at least, the ending of a dream. Time to wake up and face reality once more. But the memory of the dream lasts more, and it looked like to Cindy that one moment was enough to keep her going till her death.

It is a story about having a goal, a dream in life and sticking with it till the end. It's such a simple story yet one that can have a lot of meaning and personal depth.

[PrincePhillipFan]

Also kind of related to that and what pap said about the film, I recently felt like Cinderella. I'm gay and some guy who once said he might be bisexual, though he's not sure if he's with his long distance girlfriend or not, I was attracted to how he looked, and he looked like another guy I fell deeply for, but then he was caring and touchy feely toward me, though he gives everyone hugs, and finally we talked about philosophical things.

Bisexual? Long distance girlfriend? Talks about philosophical things? Gives everyone hugs when he leaves? Are you talking about me, or some other friend you know who happens to have all these same odd simlarities as me?

Any way, to get back on topic, one thing I really enjoy about Cinderella that I think gets sadly overlooked is style. Many tend to lump Cindy in with those "generic looking" 50s Disney films, but I think it often has a style of its own. I adore the French imperial style Mary and Claude both utilized in the film, the fantasy dream settings John Hench laid out, the fanciful exaggerated styles of the buildings. I think it all helps to give a very graceful and unique style I think often gets sadly overlooked.

[Disney Duster]

Pap, I also think it was that her family showed they really wouldn't let her be happy when she thought they might...

You think Cinderella thought one night might be okay for her whole life? Dear God, I hope not! The stepmother said for Cinderella there would be other times, to which Cinderella said "yes", and so, I think Cinderella thought she'd get to have fun throughout her life, as the opportunities came. I like to hope Cinderella was planning on her family being nicer to her, or at least letting her do what made her more happy as time went by.

Tim, despite handsomeness and good times with you, this guy is not you, he goes to my college and is very tall and has black hair! Hm, I guess we have gotten into philosophical discussions before, but I didn't know you hugged people I lot. I think this guy hugs more, almost everyone every time he sees them...

I now realize, at least some of what I felt I felt when only seeing and knowing very little of a guy, and when I thought he liked me, too, so maybe love can happen at first sight, or without talking to each other much. I still didn't know this guy very much each other, but at least we talked.

And yes, the style of Cinderella is one of the reasons why it is my favorite film, and yes, it often goes overlooked. Prince Charming's palace is ridiculously tall, the garden mysteriously glowing, and the ball fantastically dreamy.

[pap64]

Duster: Oh, I didn't mean it that way! What I meant was that if Cindy's first ball ended up being the last one she experienced she would be happy because at least part of her dream was realized and gives her enough strength to keep on believing until another opportunity.

My evidence of this is the scene right after she turns back to normal. She holds her slipper, and says "Thank you! Thank you for everything!" in a manner as if she will be eternally grateful and that the experience has changed her. Then the morning she resumed her duties as normal, without any feelings of anger and sadness expressed. In a "You guys may have ruined my dress, but I eventually got to go to it so I still feel good" manner.

And yes, the movie has an amazing style. Whoever said it was generic they must have been watching the Good Times version of Cinderella . Really I just love the design of the interiors, the set design and the wonderful character animation as well as Cinderella's lovely design.

[tsom]

I just love the Cinderella story, and how universal the message is! Like Cynthia Rylant wrote, Cinderella is a story about darkness and light, about sorrow and joy, about something lost and something found, a story about Love. Disney's Cinderella is a very beautiful film that I hope will last forever.

[Disney Duster]

Oh, thank you pap.

I had been wondering, as I was and still am working on a gigantic review of Cinderella which may come to a close around winter break or when I can get my hands on a copy of the laserdisc version, but anyway...

I had thought, okay, so Cinderella puts up with their crap because someday they may turn around. In The Disney Villain Cinderella says "I know you'll be proud of me" to her stepmother like she thinks she has to earn her love. That line is not in the final film and, well, maybe I'm over thinking it, but anyway, then I thought: Okay, but why would she go back to them after they practically proved they didn't like her and would never let her be happy? In Disney's version of the Rogers and Hammerstein version, Cinderella runs away after returning home and her stepfamily is even meaner. This is a more positive, feminist, and self-saving decision for girls, it's true.

But I had wondered if Cinderella's godmother, and the mystery man, and ball itself, gave her hope that her family could still be good. And maybe she thought you should never give up on someone. "There must be something good about him", Cinderella says of Lucifer. For the record, it is better for people to eventually give up on those harming them so they don't stay miserable! Many women stay in abusive relationships hoping someone will change, and that must be stopped. Also, Cinderella does kind of give up on Lucifer with the whole letting Bruno chase him thing but I can talk more about that later. And maybe she does give up on her family but it's less clear. Though maybe she felt she had a responsibility to her family, until the man she would marry would become her new family. Still not the greatest thing for girls, but we don't need to make Cinderella be the best role model there ever was, or change the original story too much, and there wasn't many places she could run to, I suppose. She just could have given up on waiting on her family, maybe, and did whatever she wanted, though maybe they would've kicked her out, I don't know. I still love her as she is!

It is true Cinderella could have just gone back because she felt she had no choice, she just had to to go back to her miserable life until a prince or a fairy came, I might as well be honest about that. But there is much evidence she was hoping her family would change.

Well, uh, pap I am so glad you said all that about the design of the film. And of course it was also the first one to be styled by Mary Blair, the others were done after Cinderella.

And yes, I hope all Disney films endure forever. Well, the deserving classics anyway. Of which, I am not afraid to say, I think all Walt films are, even if they are not all as good as each other, certainly. But not films of recent Disney, unfortunately. Stuff like Hunchback and Hercules should endure though. Well, any movie and everything that's not evil or bad for people should endure but I am rambling now...

I don't think that guy likes me, we're not having much intimate times now.

[Prudence]

Oh, Prudence, so you also noticed the Prince looking like Cinderella's father! And what about this:

I read (on Wikipedia...but I think it's right) that according to how monarchies work in real life, there couldn't be a Duke in Cinderella's tiny kingdom unless the Duke was the Prince's brother. And it said they look nothing alike. But actually he kind of looks like a cross between the King (nose) and the Prince (hair).

I always assumed he was first cousin to the Prince, parents long ago deceased, and it was decided that there needed to be a Grand Duke, so there you have it.

[blackcauldron85]

Walt Disney's Masterpiece of Magic, Emotion and Dreams Come True
http://d23.disney.go.com/articles/02111 ... MP=EMC-eml
(via laughingplace.com)

At one point, Walt even toyed with the idea of bringing Snow White and her animal friends back to headline this new film. But ultimately Walt decided on a brand-new princess who would be a worthy successor to Snow White.

Seriously?!? That's really interesting. I had read that they thought about bringing Cruella back for The Rescuers, but how could Snow White be Cinderella? Then it'd almost be like Snow White is just an actress, just playing parts. I'm so glad that they created Cinderella to play herself!

[yukitora]

That's a real cool concept, animated actors.

[UmbrellaFish]

Animated actors? That's odd to wrap one's head around.... I kind of don't know whether I'd like to see that or not. I wonder, had that been done, would Adriana Caselotti returned to voice Snow White?

[Scarred4life]

This is one of those small handful of films that really define what Disney is and means to me. It's a shame that so much of the younger generation isn't even familar with it, but hopefully that can be rectified with the upcoming DVD release. I fear that it may still be lost on a certain age range, though, who didn't have it when they were still watching Disney movies as small children (5th - 8th graders now, or so).

-Aaron

Just so you know, it's not completely lost on my generation. I watch these movies every day, and so do some of my friends.

Cinderella really is a classic. It's just such a pleasure to watch. The animation is great. My favorite song is 'The Work Song', when the mice are making her dress. I love the animation style for the opening story, it just fits in really well.

[zackiellovedisney]

I just watched this for the first time and I liked it. Granted it isn't my favorite or even in the top 10 but I still really liked it. There are parts that are so magical and I see why people love them so much. The only problem is some scenes are annoying. I think the scenes with the mice take too much off the movie. You forget the storyline of Cinderella while watching these things. Their voices are just too annoying and I kinda wish they weren't in the movie. I want their time to be replaced by Lady Tremaine's time. This lady is so sinister but isn't in the movie enough. I don't even think her time in the movie last ten minutes. I would have liked to see less of the mice and more of the villain. The movie also goes buy to fast and I wish it was longer. Anyway for it's faults Cinderella is still such a good movie and I really like it.

[Goliath]

Animated actors? That's odd to wrap one's head around.... I kind of don't know whether I'd like to see that or not.

Well, what are Mickey, Donald and Goofy other than animated actors? They play a different role in almost every other cartoon.

[SmartAleck25]

I just watched this for the first time and I liked it. Granted it isn't my favorite or even in the top 10 but I still really liked it. There are parts that are so magical and I see why people love them so much. The only problem is some scenes are annoying. I think the scenes with the mice take too much off the movie. You forget the storyline of Cinderella while watching these things. Their voices are just too annoying and I kinda wish they weren't in the movie. I want their time to be replaced by Lady Tremaine's time. This lady is so sinister but isn't in the movie enough. I don't even think her time in the movie last ten minutes. I would have liked to see less of the mice and more of the villain. The movie also goes buy to fast and I wish it was longer. Anyway for it's faults Cinderella is still such a good movie and I really like it.

Those were pretty much my thoughts. The mice aren't annoying, only the scenes with them trying to steal stuff behind Lucifer's back in a Tom and Jerry fashion were unnecessary to me. The Work Song was really cute! But this is your FIRST time?