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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:00 am 
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I thought I'd try this since I found a lot of past HoND threads, and maybe one single discussion thread might keep it all organized :/ We'll see I suppose. If it's a bad idea, I guess it will just fall to the wayside..

Anyways, I finally went out and bought the existing dvd about a week ago. What prompted me to do it, was that I suddenly remembered Disney's past history of cutting and editing out of whatever film they please... like the "questionable stuff". And I think everyone knows why Disney is so hesitant to give the film a proper re-release - it's a little more "adult-oriented" then any other DAC. So is it possible that, should Disney ever re-release HoND, that it would be completely butchered?

Anyways, discuss your thoughts.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:57 am 
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If you ask me, they wouldn't dare try editing it.

Otherwise, I will open a can of whoop ass on the guys who even attempted to do so. :x


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:50 am 
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I don't think so. First of all, it's already released on dvd, so the 'questionable stuff' is already out there. Second, there isn't any 'questionable stuff' in the film. The only bit I can think of was the Esmeralda figure in the fire and smoke during 'Hellfire' who appeared 'nude'. It got redrawn. All the other stuff is more implied, and would go over kids' heads anyway (so would the black centaurs probably, but that's a different discussion).

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:15 am 
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DisneyJedi wrote:
If you ask me, they wouldn't dare try editing it.

Otherwise, I will open a can of whoop ass on the guys who even attempted to do so. :x


Why not?

They did it with many other films, TLK, BATB, ALaddin.
Did you open that "can" in all the other cases too? ;)

I would actually be surprised if the version stays unedited. (In terms of putting scenes in or out, changing backgrounds or changing colours in general)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:58 am 
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The movie was out on VHS before the dvd, and I cannot recall Disney editing anything in the movie inbetween, so why would they do it now? If it's for restoration purposes, ok. , but would Hunchback really need restoration, it isn't that old.
I do not hope some 'offensive' lyrics in any song will be changed -they did it with the dvd-release of Pocahontas in the song 'Savages'' - I think that was ridiculous.

Personally I love THOND, even though the movie has some flaws. It's a treat to eye and ear and has some of my favorite characters. And a good deal of darkness - which it should have seeing what book it's based on.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:06 am 
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BelleGirl wrote:
The movie was out on VHS before the dvd, and I cannot recall Disney editing anything in the movie inbetween, so why would they do it now? If it's for restoration purposes, ok. , but would Hunchback really need restoration, it isn't that old.
I do not hope some 'offensive' lyrics in any song will be changed -they did it with the dvd-release of Pocahontas in the song 'Savages'' - I think that was ridiculous.

Personally I love THOND, even though the movie has some flaws. It's a treat to eye and ear and has some of my favorite characters. And a good deal of darkness - which it should have seeing what book it's based on.


I agree! I think THOND is the most beautifully animated movie ever. The backgrounds and the way the characters were drawn are just beautiful! The soundtrack gives me goosebumps and with only A guy like you in a negative way (haha). But yes great movie and what on earth would they edit from this movie?? I dont recall anything that would be an issue in any of the songs.

BTW what did they change in "savages".??? I didnt buy the Poc. DVD.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:26 am 
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a-net-fan wrote:


BTW what did they change in "savages".??? I didnt buy the Poc. DVD.


The line in which Ratcliff sings "Their whole disgusting race is like a curse" is changed into " It is...(forgot that part) when the races are divers".. The whole point of the song was that each party was expressing racial hatred and yet this line was deemed to offensive??? :?

They musn't dare to change a line in "Hellfire"! :x


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:58 am 
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They shouldve rated this PG.

I dunno how they got away with a G rating.
Would have solved a lot of problems though.

Can we get a special edition of this dvd already? Like a real 2disc one?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:57 pm 
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I think this movie worked well for what it was, but the cruel fact is this: there is NO WAY that the story can be adapted and be faithful to the original text, and that deeply saddens me. Also, I get tired of hearing people complain that the comic relief in this movie was cumbersome. Without the gargoyles, all the little kids who saw this movie would turn out to be serial killers. Plus, compared to Timon and Pumbaa and the painfully unnecessary exposure they'ved gained through the years, people should seriously get off the gargoyles' case.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:03 pm 
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[quote=Bellegirl]
I do not hope some 'offensive' lyrics in any song will be changed -they did it with the dvd-release of Pocahontas in the song 'Savages'' - I think that was ridiculous. [/quote]I agree. When I first got Pocahontas Masterpiece Edition, for some reason I couldn’t get into that song (one of the best of the film) the same way I could when listening to the soundtrack. It wasn’t until I realized they’d altered some of the words that I knew why some of the impact and intensity was gone from it. Also, the pc version is: “This is what you get when races are diverse!”

As for my personal opinion on Hunchback--it mostly excels with its soundtrack and villain. The only song from the movie that irks me is “Topsy Turvy.” “Heaven’s Light/Hellfire,” “The Bells of Notre Dame,” “Out There” and “God Help The Outcasts” are beautiful songs and extremely powerful (the former two especially). Now that I think of it though, I agree with someone who said (in the B&tB Discussion thread) that the only problem with Frollo, who is wonderfully voiced by Tony Jay, is that they animate him too much as a villain--which kind of negates the religious dilemma in the character. Although, I guess it still works because many people like Frollo justify their behavior through religious means, and have no remorse.

Still, Hunchback has flaws that keep it from being an overall enjoyable experience. 1.) The characters and voice cast--Esmeralda and Phoebus irritate me for some reason, and I think they’re both horribly voiced (which might explain the irritation). Quasimodo also has a strange voice, though not necessarily a bad one. I just always pictured him as having a much lower, almost brutish voice. Frollo and Clopin are the only entertaining characters I found in the movie. 2.) The story. I think it goes without saying that Victor Hugo’s story has been manipulated, rather unpleasantly, into the magic Disney formula (which turns out to be not so magical the fourth time around). Not that I think the original story should’ve gone untouched, but the entire film seems a cliché. The gargoyles, in particular, seem out-of-place. They don’t really bother me as much anymore, now that I’ve realized their representation of Quasimodo’s mind, but (as most will tell you) they definitely could have been better integrated. 3.) The animation. This is completely personal, but I hate the jagged look of the film even though I understand that it goes along with the stone walls of Notre Dame. Pocahontas and Hercules, for the most part, do much better with their individual styles.

Not that I hate the movie, but it's definitely not one of their best, imo.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:32 pm 
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Trumpet Joe wrote:
Without the gargoyles, all the little kids who saw this movie would turn out to be serial killers.


Your reasoning for this is?

The Gragoyles add nothing to advance the story and their humour is horribly out of place on top of their sole existence begin just to please the kids, they are among Disney's most poorly conceived charactres ever.

Hunchback failed as a Disney film because it spent too much time trying to blend some half-assed attempt to appeal to kids and stay a serious, dark drama and couldn't do either well because both existed. It could have and should have been one of Disney's very best but it just wasn't and that annoys me the most, however enjoyable it's few high points are.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:55 pm 
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Flanger-Hanger wrote:
Trumpet Joe wrote:
Without the gargoyles, all the little kids who saw this movie would turn out to be serial killers.


Your reasoning for this is?

The Gragoyles add nothing to advance the story and their humour is horribly out of place on top of their sole existence begin just to please the kids, they are among Disney's most poorly conceived charactres ever.

Hunchback failed as a Disney film because it spent too much time trying to blend some half-assed attempt to appeal to kids and stay a serious, dark drama and couldn't do either well because both existed. It could have and should have been one of Disney's very best but it just wasn't and that annoys me the most, however enjoyable it's few high points are.


But see, it's a Disney movie. If you're gonna slap the Disney name on a movie, it damn skippy better appeal to kids. That's an obligation that the company will be stuck with for eternity, unless of course you suggest that they put on the poster in big bold type: "DON'T TAKE TO YOUR KIDS TO SEE THIS". Take the gargoyles out, and it's unkid-friendly in an unhealthy way. The children would be mentally scarred and would grow up to be dangerous individuals.

And in my opinion, the film failed because they tried to give the Hugo novel a happy ending. Any attempt to do that will end in disaster.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:52 pm 
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BelleGirl wrote:
They musn't dare to change a line in "Hellfire"! :x


I don't really think they can do that, with Tony Jay dead, I dunno if it's possible to change any lyrics in that song.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:27 pm 
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Trumpet Joe wrote:
The children would be mentally scarred and would grow up to be dangerous individuals.


Again, your proof for this is? Kids may not have an interest in it, but at least it would have been a good movie. kids have always been scared of Disney movies dating back to Snow White but is there any logical connection between the scare a kid has while watching a movie and what kind of criminal life style they take up? have you ever take Law? I guess not. Kids become dangerous individual when they have not been taught right from wrong, neglected by their parents and brought up in abusive households. Do any of those things happen in the end in Disney films? No, right always beats wrong and lessons are taught. BTW if you don't want to scare kids avoid showing them these Disney films:

Snow White
Pinocchio
Fantasia
Bambi
The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad
Sleeping Beauty
Something Wicked This Way Comes
The Watcher in the Woods
Darby 'O Gill and the Little People
Return to Oz
The Black Hole
Hocus Pocus
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
Treasure Island (it has violence!)

and others.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:40 pm 
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Trumpet Joe wrote:
Take the gargoyles out, and it's unkid-friendly in an unhealthy way. The children would be mentally scarred and would grow up to be dangerous individuals.



:lol: I'm sorry but this is just hilarious!!! The things that people say......

So the scary opening for example would be less scary if gargoyles appear 25 minutes later in the film in completely different scenes?
And in general, if children see a scary animated film, they will grow up to be dangerous individuals?

OMG............are you serious?


Last edited by Marky_198 on Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:49 pm 
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Flanger-Hanger wrote:
Trumpet Joe wrote:
Without the gargoyles, all the little kids who saw this movie would turn out to be serial killers.


Your reasoning for this is?

The Gragoyles add nothing to advance the story and their humour is horribly out of place on top of their sole existence begin just to please the kids, they are among Disney's most poorly conceived charactres ever.




EXACTLY!!!! (APPLAUSE) I agree with you 100% about that.


I dont agree that they ruined the movie tho. HOND is an amazing movie and when it comes to soundtrack and animation one of the best Disney has ever created.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:55 pm 
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[/quote]3.) The animation. This is completely personal, but I hate the jagged look of the film even though I understand that it goes along with the stone walls of Notre Dame. Pocahontas and Hercules, for the most part, do much better with their individual styles.

Not that I hate the movie, but it's definitely not one of their best, imo.[/quote]

LMAO. Its so hard for me to imagine that someone feels Pocahontas' and Hercules' animation style was better then Hunchbacks. Sure it is all a matter of personal taste but........ I cant help but think of Pocahontas and her un-detailed facial features (esp that nose of hers) and all the amazing character animation in Hunchback. Hunchbacks animation is a TRUE work of art in motion.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:02 pm 
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This is what I meant by things that *could* be cut out, here's a section from wiki I found. I still haven't watched mine since I bought it (I'm about to have my own "animation domination" soon :P), so I have yet to confirm these:

Quote:
Despite the changes from the original literary source material in order to ensure a G rating, the film does manage to address some rather mature themes such as lust, infanticide, religious hypocrisy, the concept of Hell, prejudice, and social injustice. It presents many themes concerning very serious and deep aspects of Christianity that are thought to be very complex and difficult to understand, especially to young children. Songs also contain rather mature lyrical content such as the words "licentious" or "strumpet" which introduce the concept of sexual indulgence. Additionally, it is also the first animated Disney film to use the word "damnation."


It's not anything huge, but maybe enough to stir up the soccer moms. Again, it's been several years since I last saw the movie, so I don't know if it's anything in song lyrics or what.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:46 pm 
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a-net-fan wrote:

LMAO. Its so hard for me to imagine that someone feels Pocahontas' and Hercules' animation style was better then Hunchbacks. Sure it is all a matter of personal taste but........ I cant help but think of Pocahontas and her un-detailed facial features (esp that nose of hers) and all the amazing character animation in Hunchback. Hunchbacks animation is a TRUE work of art in motion.
Pocahontas is Native American--her facial features are very different than John Smith's in the same film, so I think there was a specific reason she looked that way. Sorry you missed it. And you didn't say anything for why Hercules was inferior to you, so I'm left thinking you couldn't think of a reason...? :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:55 pm 
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toonaspie wrote:
They shouldve rated this PG.

I dunno how they got away with a G rating.

Because it is not 'worthy' of PG. There's nothing in there that's PG.

This is certainly the best 1990's Disney film. Even though Aladdin is my personal favorite, HonD is superior at almost every level (except for the comic sidekicks; nothing can top Genie and Iago). I think Frollo is the best Disney-villain ever, because he's so realistic. He's not evil for the sake of being evil; he doesn't even think what he's doing is bad; he's a fanatic who believes he's morally on the right side. Yet he also feels shame, guilt and sin and asks God for forgiveness. It's this kind of nuance that I haven't seen in any other Disney film.

The only complaint I have is with the three gargoyles. Not because they provide comic relief. I think it nicely balances out the darker stuff. I just think their designs are lazy and their antics are predictable. There's ntohing that sets them apart from previous, much better sidekicks. Also, 'A guy like you' is definitly not a bad song. Actually, it's quite catchy in its own right. But the tone, melody, style and lyrics would fit far better in a film like TLM, BatB or Aladdin. That's why that felt like a bit of a throw-back.

All in all, HonD is a marvelous, underappreciated masterwork.


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