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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:32 pm 
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In this game, you try to come up with "plot holes" that are either legitimate or just nitpicks about the movies' seeming inconsistencies. This is actually based on the book "Mouse Under Glass", by David Koenig, who also lists off several "plot holes" to gripe about anything he finds nonsensical or contradictory. Actually, some of the plot holes aren't so much plot holes and plot nitpicks. Anyway, to start with, I will begin with a few plot holes, as seen in the book:

In Pinocchio:
Shouldn't Pinocchio turn into a wooden donkey?

In Lady and the Tramp:
Amazingly, when Lady is first introduced as a Christmas present, she doesn't fall limply out of the giftbox in need of resuscitation - the giftbox has no air holes.

Now, let's see what some of your plot holes (and/or nitpicks) are for Disney movies?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:22 pm 
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Pinocchio (got this from TVTropes)
Why does the Blue Fairy lecture and more-or-less torture Pinocchio for "lying" about what how he ended up in Stromboli's cage? On his first day of existence, he had been conned, kidnapped, and sold into slavery. If a 5-year-old child was abducted and put in a similar situation on their first day of school, and in terror made up a story like what he said, would your first inclination be to lecture them about lying, while mutilating their body? Considering Gideon and Foulfellow probably would have used violence if Pinocchio had not consented, what he was saying was not that far off from the truth. Yes, it's meant to be a moral for the audience, but in context that scene is actually pretty disturbing. Unlike in the book, there is no indication that Pinocchio is actually guilty of the vices he has to "overcome", or of anything other than naivete.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:01 pm 
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Dr Frankenollie wrote:
Pinocchio (got this from TVTropes)
Why does the Blue Fairy lecture and more-or-less torture Pinocchio for "lying" about what how he ended up in Stromboli's cage? On his first day of existence, he had been conned, kidnapped, and sold into slavery. If a 5-year-old child was abducted and put in a similar situation on their first day of school, and in terror made up a story like what he said, would your first inclination be to lecture them about lying, while mutilating their body? Considering Gideon and Foulfellow probably would have used violence if Pinocchio had not consented, what he was saying was not that far off from the truth. Yes, it's meant to be a moral for the audience, but in context that scene is actually pretty disturbing. Unlike in the book, there is no indication that Pinocchio is actually guilty of the vices he has to "overcome", or of anything other than naivete.


Wow, that was pretty good. Here's another one:

In Beauty and the Beast:
A fairy turns the prince into the Beast because, when she knocked at his castle door disguised as an old beggar woman, he turned her away. Given all those servants of his, why is he answering the door? She says that he will remain a Beast unless someone falls in love with him before his 21st birthday. Just exactly how long ago did the curse begin before Belle came into the Beast's life? Lumiere says, "Ten years we've been rusting," yet that would means the prince was cursed at the age of eleven, which is a bit too young for the "falling in love" escape clause. He looks so much older than that in the painting he slashes after his transformation. But how old would that make Chip at the time of the curse? And doesn't Chip's mother, Mrs. Potts, look and sound a bit past her child-bearing years?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:48 am 
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Just noticed this one. In "Up," when they show the final shot of the house sitting on Paradise Falls, the balloon strings are no longer attached.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:43 am 
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Big Disney Fan wrote:
Dr Frankenollie wrote:
Pinocchio (got this from TVTropes)
Why does the Blue Fairy lecture and more-or-less torture Pinocchio for "lying" about what how he ended up in Stromboli's cage? On his first day of existence, he had been conned, kidnapped, and sold into slavery. If a 5-year-old child was abducted and put in a similar situation on their first day of school, and in terror made up a story like what he said, would your first inclination be to lecture them about lying, while mutilating their body? Considering Gideon and Foulfellow probably would have used violence if Pinocchio had not consented, what he was saying was not that far off from the truth. Yes, it's meant to be a moral for the audience, but in context that scene is actually pretty disturbing. Unlike in the book, there is no indication that Pinocchio is actually guilty of the vices he has to "overcome", or of anything other than naivete.


Wow, that was pretty good. Here's another one:

In Beauty and the Beast:
A fairy turns the prince into the Beast because, when she knocked at his castle door disguised as an old beggar woman, he turned her away. Given all those servants of his, why is he answering the door? She says that he will remain a Beast unless someone falls in love with him before his 21st birthday. Just exactly how long ago did the curse begin before Belle came into the Beast's life? Lumiere says, "Ten years we've been rusting," yet that would means the prince was cursed at the age of eleven, which is a bit too young for the "falling in love" escape clause. He looks so much older than that in the painting he slashes after his transformation. But how old would that make Chip at the time of the curse? And doesn't Chip's mother, Mrs. Potts, look and sound a bit past her child-bearing years?


well, they are called fairy tales for a reason.

But anyway, we already called out the BatB thing a couple years ago. It's simply rushed writing.

Enchanted: When Giselle goes down the well, it apparently takes her hours to get to NYC, but when Edward and Chip take the plunge, it's only a minute? Keep in Mind that's without the help of the DVD short.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:58 pm 
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Here's something to chew on:

In Peter Pan:
As Disney heroes go, Peter Pan is a questionable role model. Writer Maurice Rapf tried to put him in his place when assigned to write an early screenplay. "They were never going to do mine," he said. "I made Peter Pan a villain. He doesn't want anyone to grow up, and that's dangerous, the temptation not to grow up. So I had Wendy tell him off."


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:01 pm 
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Are we allowed to...talk about these and why we think they aren't plot holes?

Pinocchio wouldn't have to become a wooden donkey, there's no rules about the magic that says that, there's nothing to prove he should be, he was acting like all the other boys, he got punished the same way they did.

I think Jim Dear put Lady in the box like just right before he got Darling down to the gifts. Walt himself presented a dog to his wife in a hat box, so, who knows how he did it, air-holes or no, but it gives it credibility.

Pinocchio still was lying, so he was still truly guilty of what he was doing. And he lied to cover up that he had been bad choosing to go with strangers instead of going to school. I'm pretty sure the idea is the strangers would not have done anything to him if he refused enough. However, it is true, the Blue Fairy's not nice enough, I don't think you have to be brave, always truthful, or always unselfish to be a good person.

I think the Prince in Beauty and the Beast was supposed to be 11, because that's what Howard Ashman discussed once, the prince being around that age when he was cursed. Then, I think the servants were frozen in their ages, because they didn't have to be punished as much and have to miss years of their lives, and so Chip was always a kid. Or maybe chip was 1 when he was born and he became 11. The only problem is the portrait of the prince looks much older than 11.

In the end of Up, think the balloon strings aren't attached because the balloons finally let go of the house so it could land.

For Enchanted, I'm almost definately sure they just cut out the amount of time it takes for Edward to reach the city, going from one shot to the next. How did it take Giselle hours, though?

Peter Pan isn't really villanous...you should be able to not grow up. Or grow up but not grow up at the same time (do what you have to that's grown up, be a child for the rest). Maybe he should have been less of a jerk, but others complained, not me. It would have been cool for Wendy to tell him off, though, but I thought she did in the film, maybe just not like Rapf wrote.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:59 pm 
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Peter Pan sucks in the movie but he's much worse in the book! But in the book Hook is far more evil in the film he is much more likeable than Pan. They either should have made Hook eviler and more threatening in the film or made Peter more likeable.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:10 pm 
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Here's something...

In 101 Dalmatians:
"She's been investigated by Scotland Yard; what more do you want?" Anita asks Roger of Cruella the morning after the dognapping. But Cruella said she called because she just read about it in the paper. Shouldn't this tip off Anita if Cruella was actually investigated the night before? And Scotland Yard's investigative skills haven't improved any since the 1940s films in which Sherlock Holmes immediately knows that anyone suspected by Inspector Lestrade must be innocent. Hell Hall is the first place I would have checked.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:18 am 
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I would have made Peter only a little bit more likable (because I already like him), and Captain Hook a good amount more evil.

Maybe Anita was not really that smart of a person...? But that happens to be a very good possible plot hole!

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:24 pm 
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In Enchanted, Giselle Goes into the Well in the morning and comes out of a manhole well after dark. When we see Edward go in, there's nothing to make us assume that that was in any way hours earlier, and if it didnt happen that way, there's a serious hole. Made evermoreso obvious by the fact that Nathaniel seemed to travel even faster by ending up in NYC apparently mere seconds after he left Andalasia, or at least within the same morning.

For the Edward bit, the pop-up short seems to cover that up a little, but with Nathaniel..................

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:21 pm 
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Well, I would say that the times of day in Andalasia and New York are different, being on different...dimensions or times or whatever. I would say that we cannot tell exactly what the time difference is. What looks like the same time of day as it was in Andalasia may actually be a few hours difference. The film does not make it clearly either possible or impossible. We haven't seen clear plot holes.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:18 pm 
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Here's something to chew on:

In Sleeping Beauty:
Why were the three fairies in such a big hurry to get back to the cottage after putting the kingdom to sleep? They had no way of knowing that the young man who was supposed to meet Princess Aurora there was in fact the prince or that Maleficent would be lying in wait for him there, let alone the fact that Maleficent, who hadn't disturbed them once for sixteen years, even knew the cottage's whereabouts. Yet when they arrive home and pick up the prince's cap from the floor, the fairies exclaim, "Maleficent!", followed by Merryweather adding, "She's got Prince Phillip!"


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:11 pm 
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Big Disney Fan wrote:
Here's something to chew on:

In Sleeping Beauty:
Why were the three fairies in such a big hurry to get back to the cottage after putting the kingdom to sleep? They had no way of knowing that the young man who was supposed to meet Princess Aurora there was in fact the prince or that Maleficent would be lying in wait for him there, let alone the fact that Maleficent, who hadn't disturbed them once for sixteen years, even knew the cottage's whereabouts. Yet when they arrive home and pick up the prince's cap from the floor, the fairies exclaim, "Maleficent!", followed by Merryweather adding, "She's got Prince Phillip!"


Actually Flora(or was it Fauna?) sort of solved that puzzle when King Hubert was talking in his sleep about Phillip meeting a girl "once upon a dream" which was the exact same thing Aurora had said(It was too much of a coincidence). It could be that she told the other two about it while they were on their way to the cottage. We just didn't see it..

As for Maleficent knowing the cottage's whereabouts, you can thank Diablo for that.

Unless you're saying 'How could they suspect Maleficent?' Well, it's Flora, Fauna and Merryweather. If something goes amiss, they always put the blame on Maleficent.. :roll:


Alas, I have nothing to contribute.. I just had urges.. :D

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:15 am 
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Big Disney Fan wrote:
Here's something...

In 101 Dalmatians:
"She's been investigated by Scotland Yard; what more do you want?" Anita asks Roger of Cruella the morning after the dognapping. But Cruella said she called because she just read about it in the paper. Shouldn't this tip off Anita if Cruella was actually investigated the night before? And Scotland Yard's investigative skills haven't improved any since the 1940s films in which Sherlock Holmes immediately knows that anyone suspected by Inspector Lestrade must be innocent. Hell Hall is the first place I would have checked.

Isn't it possible that Scotland Yard's checking around in this case didn't have anything to do with actually interviewing or telephoning her or dropping by her home?

Also, well- the Colonel Dog said Hell Hall was called "the Old DeVil(le) place," meaning several people knew it was not lived-in for some time and in a state of disrepair. Why would Scotland Yard think to check there?

Also, when Cruella said she "just read about it in the papers," she didn't exactly say the reason why she was calling was because she read it in the paper. She could have known about it and thought little of it, but decided to call because she saw her face and how sad she looked. (This is a stretch worthy of Disney_Duster, I know, but it's possible.)

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:56 pm 
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Here's another little something:

In Mary Poppins:
Although the movie's Mary is markedly less rude than Travers', it's bewildering that the Banks family should be so loyal to her. For someone who is "practically perfect in every way," Mary can be quite a pill. A sample of her attitude, spoken to Mr. Banks when he demands an explanation: "I never explain anything."


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:46 pm 
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A little nitpick for Pinocchio: What exactly 'killed' Pinocchio after the chase by Monstro? It doesn't seem he could have drowned, since Pinoc could walk and breath under water for a long time without any trouble. Bumped his head? Well, he was made of wood, could he really be hurt?

Something that puzzled me a bit about Beauty and the Beast: The prince surely must have had cutlery, china, furniture and so forth before the magic spell turned his servants in these kind of things. So I guess only part of it existed of enchanted humans (I don't recall Belle's bed talking :D )? And what happened to Chip's 'brothers and sisters'? Were they turned into humans or did they remain teacups?
Indeed mrs. Potts looks more likely to be Chips' granny than his mother. But some women still get a child at an advanced age, so it's possible.
But how can you compare a fairy tale to real life anyway?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:57 pm 
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BelleGirl wrote:
A little nitpick for Pinocchio: What exactly 'killed' Pinocchio after the chase by Monstro? It doesn't seem he could have drowned, since Pinoc could walk and breath under water for a long time without any trouble. Bumped his head? Well, he was made of wood, could he really be hurt?


Well, you have to remember that Monstro rammed his head pretty good against the rock wall just as Pinocchio and Geppetto escape. This sends up a huge blast of water. Pinocchio may have been thrown against a rock and knocked out cold.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:09 pm 
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Hunchback of Notre Dame

How exactly does Quasimodo's crowning as King of the Fools in what is supposed to be a popular party turns into the humiliating scene we witness? that never made sense to me, especially after the former King of The Fools is apparently well received by the crowd.


Mulan

After the avalanche, how does Shan Yu's sword end up at Shang's hands to deliver to the Emperor ?


Cheers

Carlos


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:13 pm 
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carlossilva wrote:
Hunchback of Notre Dame

How exactly does Quasimodo's crowning as King of the Fools in what is supposed to be a popular party turns into the humiliating scene we witness? that never made sense to me, especially after the former King of The Fools is apparently well received by the crowd.


Carlos


I don't regard this so much as a plot hole, but indeed it doesn't seem to make so much sense. Maybe the crowd became so mean against Quasimodo because he did not wear a mask or made an ugly face like the other candidates, but really had an ugly face. Or there were simply a few really bad apples among the crowd at the time who started to get rotten and were followed by others. Actually, it does make sense to me now I think of it.

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