Still my second favorite Disney movie, which still ever battles with Sleeping Beauty...
My personal feelings on Ariel were that I was fine with her in the original as a kid, I was more interested in Ursula but that was personal interest, and whenever people didn't like her, I would get defensive, I thought she was fine and was glad she didn't get punished for her actions, I didn't believe in that.
These days, her over-popularity has made me scrutinize her, and now I almost roll my eyes sometimes at the thought or sight of her. Her attitued does bother me, but I don't know if she really should be changed.
In the series, I think I liked her even more there and today I do feel I like her more in that. Maybe it was because she was younger, and maybe it was because it focused more on peace, harmony, and love, but she was more considerate and caring for others in the series and that is not something I can say she was nearly as much in the film.
Also I wouldn't mind her being more "classical" like the past princesses and the original Anderson mermaid. Her eyes are also apart of that. I have a problem with Disney animations general turn to what I think was a more...cartoony allowance in style in their films, starting with this one. But Ariel's eyes are the hugest of all, at least until Rapunzel, which makes no sense, because Rapunzel is older so her eyes should be less big. Bith are Keane's work and I am not a fan of his big cartoony exaggerations, no matter how they still work in the Disney art.
All the previous princesses had bigger than real eyes, but it was subtle, it felt more classical. In Ariel... There is a statue of Ariel that I think shows her eyes a little more like I would want them to be:
Ariel sitting sculpture
Goliath, your post exaggerated and simplified to say that any, any other hero or heroine had as clear goals or were as emotional or great a character as Ariel.
All the previous princesses wanted better lives, some of them in particular having specific goals to have lovers. Specifically to Cinderella, she said her dream was a secret ("Because if you tell a wish, it won't come true") and when dancing with the prince said "this is the miracle that I've been dreaming of". All most all princesses tried to get what they want, to varying degrees, be it wishing which they thought would give them what they want (in fairy tales when anything can happen) or trying to push the people around them to get it, however so subtley. Tiana got to make the people around her give her what she wanted because she had an alligator who could beat them up. It's good you put feminist in quotes because what is or isn't feminist does seem to depend on different women, though there's probably some formal definition somewhere.
Pinocchio wanted to do what he needed to get his goal, got distracted, but finally did do it. Alice's goal was to have complete fun and silliness, when she got too much of it, she wanted to escape, she learned something.
The Darling's didn't want to grow up, and wanted to go to a place to have fun all the time, in fact, their goal could be said to not have to have goals. Bernard and Bianca clearly got good feelings and an adventure out of helping someone, and they clearly wanted it from being part of the rescue society. Also, did you miss that Mulan wanted to be seen for who she was since the very beginning, singing "Reflection"? And Jasmine just didn't want to be a princess because of the rules and not getting to choose her lover, so once she overcame those, hell yea who wouldn't want to be a princess, Aladdin did...
Ariel's goal was to become part of the human world. Somehow. She did not know how at all. It was not clear, not clearer than the others that much, was it? She saw Eric and she had a clear goal that every previous princess had, to have a lover, but it also conveniently joined with her previous desire. Wouldn't it be interesting if she was using him to become part of the human world like the original wanted a soul? But she still had no good plans for getting what she wanted, the closest that she would try to see him again with Flounder splashing to get his attention.
Two eels come up and say, "Hey, that evil sea witch that you know was bad is now good and could help you." She tells Ariel she can become human, and bingo, Ariel has her clear goal and how to get it.
For the most part what I think you should have said was Ariel may have had the most clear goal or done the most to get it or was the most emotional or was the most determined, but not the
only one, just the most, perhaps, in whichever of those areas.
Everything else you said about you love for her and why she's so great I can understand, except that you believe other princess love at first sight romances thanks to the way they were done, and:
Goliath wrote:But it's not only her eyes, it's all her expressions and gestures (sometimes ever so subtle) which reveal a more complex emotional 'structure' than any other Disney character has.
Uh, no, I would not accept that without some really deep, long, explaining and comparing with every other Disney character. Until then, no. But, at least we realize that is what you personally think.
Super Aurora, you're great, I liked everything you said, it was so true, and thanks especially for what you said about my favorite, yay. : )
Super Aurora wrote:Actually if you think about it, Aladdin is the male reversal role of Little Mermaid
And reversal of Cinderella, moreso.
Divinity, you can E-mail me back if you want, I mean, I totally can understand you not we would still be friends but...great analysis of "Part of that World", woah, and your analysis of the whole film as something feminist. In that way, the film can be feminist.
Ariel in the song even says "bright young women" which is great for the film recognizing women in that way, and thus intending to make Ariel bright, but then she makes her not mistake (which could be seen as not so bright but in reality is probably her choosing emotion over thought and she saw it as the only way which it may have been), which two men solve, and a man gives her her goal. However, I understand that it worked both ways, Ariel was wrong but also right, and Triton was right but also wrong. It can be seen that Ariel pushes her father to see her side of things. To do that further, though, they probably could have had Ariel say "I'm sorry for what I did, but see he is good, he loves me, and I deserve him" instead of being sad on a rock, but that would not be as cinematically beautiful, artsy, and emotional.
The other problems are that I would need more explanation as to why Ariel wants to see herself equal to her father and most especially to Eric. Also, her trying to empower herself is to get a man, it is for the sake of the love of a man. And if a man doesn't love her, she becomes a miserable, helpless worm.
Disney's Divinity wrote:Regardless, I think any mistakes Ariel makes are supposed to be indicative of age, not gender. So I guess we can agree the film's ageist.
Not necessarily, because Ariel gives up things and makes mistakes for the love of a man. It could be said teenage boys do not do the same for love, for girls.
What you said on feminism is very right though. It's supposed to be about women being equal to men. Also, what is or isn't feminist does seem to depend on different people, though there's probably some formal definition somewhere.
Eric acted kind of dickish to Ariel when mute, I feel. He just feels dicky. He doesn't have the same fun exuberance or innocence Ariel has. But he doesn't just seem more worldly. He seems dicky.
Lots of princes do though, lol! But with him getting more screentime and development, we can see more of his a**holeness, and compared to Ariel who deserves someone as great as her, he seems even more douchey.