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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:18 pm 
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i've heard alot of crap about who copied whose idea for the bug movies... dreamowrks or disney? cause this was NOT just a coincidence of two major animation companies, (though dreamowrks wasnt that major back them) end up with the same basic basic plot line: nervous ant save colony.
again this was done with nemo and sharktale.... does anyone know the truth behind the rumors? what idea came first? "A Bug's Life" or "Antz"?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:48 pm 
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I agree that there are many 'coincidences' when it comes to dreamworks. I find it very odd that a large portion of their films have had wuite similar themes. What I find also suspiscious is that there are a fair few people who have been involoved with the dreamworks films who have previously worked at Disney.

As you point out, there is an undeniable similarity between A Bug's Life and Antz, but some other ones I find to be similar are:

Finding Nemo and Shark Tale! 2 films about sea creatures released within a year of each other? OK could be a coincidence.

The Hunchback of Notre Dame and The Prince of Egypt/King of Dreams. Ok these two are not similar in story but this one reallt bugs me, Disney makes an original,edgy, very grown up story and film, and then bam then comes Dreamworks and The Prince of Egypt. Don't get me wrong I adore both of these movies, but it oculd be argued that HND simply inspired the other 2.

The Road to El Dorado and The Emperor's New Groove.
Both love/hate buddy movies set in South America, with big latin american temples etc. OK granted there ain't no Llama's in RtED, but TENG originally had no llamas and was supposed to be an epic!

Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron and Home on the Range. Both set in the wild west! And Home on the Range's original story line was about an indian boy who became friends with a horse who he named bullets! Then all of a sudden it got changed to bounty hunting cows, for some unknown reason! Chances of 2 animation studios making an identical film? = 0.

Treasure Planet and Sinbad:Legend of the Seven Seas

Hmm both pirate movies released within a year! Coinkydink?

The Wild and Madagascar.

Both upcoming films, Madagascar made by dreamworks is a film about a load of zoo animals who are released to the wild.

The Wild being released by Disney features zoos and wild animals and other things that don't seem in any way to be ever remotely similar to the plot of Madagascar.

Flushed Away and That other rat film

OK I've fogotten what that other rat film is called but again similarity?

This last one is merely rumour

Shrek and Chicken Little/Rapunzel Unbraided

Apparently Disnmey have been working a new *modern* fairy tale for years and what progress they had made, were remoulded into Chicken little when Shrek was released!

So IMO is it a coincidence that Dreamworks have had so many similar movies? No!

One similarity OK, 2 similarities perhaps, but this many no way!

Dreamworks have been screwing over every other animation studio since it was founded.

That I why I loathe evry piece of garbage they have ever and will make!

With the exception of The Prince of Egypt, which is actually quite good!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:15 pm 
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i think Bugs was started first but antz was done rushed or something and it premiered first?

Anyway as I've commented in a similar thread and even the ant commented to the grasshopper, just like Widows to Mac, they can copy and copy but it's always the copies that depend and follow in the shadows of the original ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:59 pm 
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doesn't really matter.. isn't it bvious wich one the better film is? :wink: :)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:37 pm 
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Wow ichabod, you really thought that out, huh! :P

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:52 pm 
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Antz I think? :down:

A Bug's Life was by far the better film though!
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:13 pm 
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A BUGS LIFE was in devolopment at Pixar (and they had the deal with Disney at the time) when Jeffrey Katensberg (then-head of Disney's Feature Animation department) huffed and puffed and went to make DreamWorks to see if he could blow the Mouse House down. However, remember Pixar was still puting finishing touches on Toy Story as this happened and still had lots of work to do with Bugs.

Katensberg took the concept with him and rushed it through devolopment and animation and such, and managed to get it out in theaters just under 2 months before A Bug's Life was released by Disney.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:34 pm 
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This has more to do with the subject of this post than with Disney movies.

I've thought about this for a long time about the following movies.

Mission to Mars and Red Planet

Deep Impact and Armageddon

Lord of the Rings and all the epics that are out now (Troy, Kingdom of Heaven, King Arthur, etc)

Coincidence? Some of these movies could have been developed separately because of some news event or something like that, but I definitely think the walls have ears in many of these studios and I'm sure Disney/Pixar and Dreamworks aren't immune.

I do have to say that I see Shark Tale as the most obvious rip off and is probably the most telling that they are trying to keep up and not necessarily come up with original material.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:56 pm 
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It's rampant throughout all of Hollywood but the Disney/Dreamworks connection is the most noticable. :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:58 pm 
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Jake Lipson wrote:
A BUGS LIFE was in devolopment at Pixar (and they had the deal with Disney at the time) when Jeffrey Katensberg (then-head of Disney's Feature Animation department) huffed and puffed and went to make DreamWorks to see if he could blow the Mouse House down. However, remember Pixar was still puting finishing touches on Toy Story as this happened and still had lots of work to do with Bugs.

Katensberg took the concept with him and rushed it through devolopment and animation and such, and managed to get it out in theaters just under 2 months before A Bug's Life was released by Disney.


What about the other movies? Do we know which ones came first?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:34 pm 
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Ah, yes; I've also noticed a strong. . . bond, if you will, between the films of these two studios.

I also used to make comparisons Monsters Inc. and Shrek simply because they both star big scary monster types that aren't really monsters at all.

But I'll always believe that Antz should really have been enititled "Katzenberg's Revenge."

Don't forget that the animation biz is relatively small and animators aren't always under contract. They will often bounce from studio to studio, depending on the amount of money they make and what they'll be working on. This might explain *some* of the similarities. But I honestly feel that Katzenberg is bitter about not getting what he wanted and has tried to one-up Disney ever since.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:26 pm 
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toonaspie wrote:
Jake Lipson wrote:
A BUGS LIFE was in devolopment at Pixar (and they had the deal with Disney at the time) when Jeffrey Katensberg (then-head of Disney's Feature Animation department) huffed and puffed and went to make DreamWorks to see if he could blow the Mouse House down. However, remember Pixar was still puting finishing touches on Toy Story as this happened and still had lots of work to do with Bugs.

Katensberg took the concept with him and rushed it through devolopment and animation and such, and managed to get it out in theaters just under 2 months before A Bug's Life was released by Disney.


What about the other movies? Do we know which ones came first?

Well, some of the movies (Shark Tale, for example) we can tell that they didn't work very long or hard on. And then, to top it all off, they make frequent jokes at fairy tales and Disney throughout both Shrek movies. I don't think Dreamworks is at any place to make cracks about Disney. Other than Prince of Egypt (which I absolutely love) there has not been a single Dreamworks animated movie I've seen that I've liked.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:07 pm 
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there has not been a single Dreamworks animated movie I've seen that I've liked.


me too, these really isn't any dreamworks film i actually like, Shrek and Shrek 2 i got only becuase of the hype and people saying they were the best films this and that, but to tell you the truth, i don't even watch them. Shrek 2 is 90 minutes long, i saw 60 minutes of it when i bought it on its release date, then i truned it off and haven't seen the rest since. Disney and Pixar movies i can watch for days and never get bored, Dreamworks got me tired after only 45 minutes, turned it off at 60 minutes.

this topic question actually made me think of, What Came First, the Chicken or the Egg? who will really know.[/quote]


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:09 pm 
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I remember my dad took us to see Antz and I don't remember much of it. Just that the ant's voice was really annoying and unfitting for an animated film (Woody Allen) and a weird story with gross killer centipedes giant bees or hornets and a trash bin. Then I remember seeing it again on DVD at my cousin's house and noticing all the adult humor in it.

Anyhow, I liked A Bug's Life a lot better and I like how it used the classic Grasshopper and the Ants story and had nice characters and a cartoonic world. I think Antz was a little closer to the real kind. Lol, like the queen ant and all the babies and her big butt :lol: !

also, that's really weird with all the Dreamworks/Disney comparisons! I never noticed some of them! Just mainly Antz, Sharktale, Madagascar and Shrek, which was Disney copying Dreamworks...sort of. I think it's very annoying that they're doing that. I mean Chicken Little seems inevitable to be a comedy but it's hard to imagine a comedic princess movie. I think Disney should treat Rapunzel like a regular fairy tale musical like it has for years and been saved by for years. A nice Alen Menken score and lush animation filled with golden storybook colors, broadway actors and singers, and the cute little sidekicks (well maybe I could do without the latter). It's hard to imagine a 3D Rapunzel to be in the group images of the Disney Princesses. Okay I'm ramlbing so I'll stop. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:00 am 
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ichabod wrote:

Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron and Home on the Range. Both set in the wild west! And Home on the Range's original story line was about an indian boy who became friends with a horse who he named bullets! Then all of a sudden it got changed to bounty hunting cows, for some unknown reason! Chances of 2 animation studios making an identical film? = 0.


well, in this case then it looks like disney's copying dreamworks because home on the range came a good two years after spirit.

ichabod wrote:
The Wild and Madagascar.

Both upcoming films, Madagascar made by dreamworks is a film about a load of zoo animals who are released to the wild.

The Wild being released by Disney features zoos and wild animals and other things that don't seem in any way to be ever remotely similar to the plot of Madagascar.


what?? how havent i heard about "the wild" before?? how long has this been planned? what is it?

ichabod wrote:
Flushed Away and That other rat film

OK I've fogotten what that other rat film is called but again similarity?


the other rat film=rattitoule... somthing like that...

PatrickvD wrote:
doesn't really matter.. isn't it bvious wich one the better film is? :wink: :)


umm i guessing you're reffering to bugs life.. but i thought antz was way better...

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 11:41 am 
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quiden wrote:
Lord of the Rings and all the epics that are out now (Troy, Kingdom of Heaven, King Arthur, etc)

Coincidence? Some of these movies could have been developed separately because of some news event or something like that, but I definitely think the walls have ears in many of these studios and I'm sure Disney/Pixar and Dreamworks aren't immune.

I do have to say that I see Shark Tale as the most obvious rip off and is probably the most telling that they are trying to keep up and not necessarily come up with original material.


For LotR v. Troy and the other epics, I think that the latter group of films are more or less just riding on the coattails of their more successful predecessor.

But for Disney v. DreamWorks (for their original works, anyway), it really seems as though there's some inside funny business going on (and some blatant ripping off).

P.S. For the record, I liked A Bug's Life better. I saw Antz in theatres instead of ABL and enjoyed it a lot, thought it was hilarious, etc. Then I saw ABL on the Disney Channel and thought it had something that Antz lacked. It was just more appealing somehow and had more replay value.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 12:41 pm 
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what i find funny is that i am a disney person, i defend my disney movies but my neighbor is a dreamworks person, she defends her dreamworks movies. we joke back and forth " Finding Nemo was better, NO, Shark Tale was better" etc.... I always have to say the last word, so Finding Nemo was better :)


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 12:57 pm 
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saving107 wrote:
what i find funny is that i am a disney person, i defend my disney movies but my neighbor is a dreamworks person, she defends her dreamworks movies. we joke back and forth " Finding Nemo was better, NO, Shark Tale was better" etc.... I always have to say the last word, so Finding Nemo was better :)


She actually said this!? I do hope you were using a fabricated example.

:headshake:

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:35 pm 
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saving107 wrote:
what i find funny is that i am a disney person, i defend my disney movies but my neighbor is a dreamworks person, she defends her dreamworks movies. we joke back and forth " Finding Nemo was better, NO, Shark Tale was better" etc.... I always have to say the last word, so Finding Nemo was better :)


really?? thats just stupid because she may be a dreamworks fan... but sharktale was just awful! i mean give credit where credit is due and credit is do to finding nemo NOT to sharktale. and im not just saying this being in favor of disney... i love dreamowrks movies. and even earlier in this thread i said antz was better the bugs life. but sharktale was just horrible.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:47 pm 
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everyone is entitled to there own opinion, but she does like Sharktale for some reason. Like i said before, for some reason this is the only thing we disagree on (Disney Vs Dreamworks), besides this we like pretty much like about the same things.

She could just be saying this because she has a 2 year old Daughter, and since she got in on DVD on the release date, her daugter atleast has to see the movie 3 or 4 times a week, so maybe she likes Shark Tale just because it is a Newer movie, something Fresh to watch besides Finding Nemo.

Shark Tale did make alot of money in the Box Office, and it was (i think) #One 2 or 3 weeks in a row, so obviously someone out there does like it.

one thing we did agree on, We Both want Bambi Platinum Edition in March.


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