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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:05 pm 
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I've heard the sexual awakening interpretation too (there seems to be a sexual awakening interpretation of every story ever written), and I think it centers around Snow White deciding that freedom was more important than security and so she chose to risk the apple. The prince's kiss is often incorporated into that too. As crunkcourt pointed out, her long sleep doesn't really fit into that theory (she lost her innocence, suffered the consequences, and then a man came along and woke her both literally and symbolicly sexually? I think not.)

Now, Disney Duster's theory is more credible, because it accounts for the sleeping period by saying that Snow White died from childhood and then awoke into adulthood. I still think that the sleep would be an unnecessary step in the equation, though, as our childhood doesn't "die" and then eventually give way to a new life as an adult... it's a transition. Besides, it would certainly be out of Walt's character to communicate the death of childhood prior to entering adulthood.

The fact that a man's kiss is what saves Snow White automatically leads people to associate it with sex. There are actually a lot of ways to interpret it. For example, could we not say that The Prince represents the Messiah? Snow White prophesied his coming ("Someday my prince will come") and when he finally came in, not only did he fulfill the prophecy, he also became her saviour and carried her away to a new golden kingdom in the sky.

I honestly think it's all a little less mysterious than that. Snow White had a dream. She was unloved and neglected in her home life and wished to discover true love. In the end, that's what she gets, and the messages that are imparted are the not necessarily simple but extremely common "True love conquers all", "Dreams come true", and "Things will get better."

I do, however, think that the witch was designed to be representative of Satan and the apple seems to be an obvious Eve allusion. Given the time that the original story was penned, that would certainly make sense.

As for Dan Brown, the man just skates around from one Disnet conspiracy to another, stringing together terms like "Cinderella" and "sacred feminine" without ever bothering to stop and explain what he means and provide any evidence. It should also be noted that neither Aurora nor Snow White were incarcerated. True, they went into hiding, but there's a big difference there.

And of course Mr. Brown has it that the hidden messages are conveniently hidden in the movies that ended up being the studio's biggest hits. What's the hidden message of the Holy Grail in <i>The Monkey's Uncle</i>? Where's the sacred feminine in <i>Saludos Amigos</i>?

-Aaron

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:09 pm 
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Disney Duster wrote:
As for "a loss of innocence, and a regain of innocence", how does Snow White, in any version, regain innocence?

I'm not sure if I agree with it or not, but I think the argument would be that Snow White loses her innocence when she eats the apple and because of it, she dies. She then regains her innocence and is given new life when she finds her salvation and is resurrected.

-Aaron

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:55 pm 
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More evidence backing the theory for fall of man interpretation:
After Snow White's death Disney shows narration on the screen and in the background we see fall change into winter and change into spring. Winter is often used as symbolism for death, and spring as the ressurection, life after death.
Disney Duster said that Disney chose to make Snow White very childish and innocent before her apple experience. However, after she is awakened she doesn't appear very different for the few moments we see her. I think the reason the first audiences, and audiences today have been so touched by the scene where the dwarfs gather around Snow White's coffin, is because that has been us. That signifies the death of man.
What I meant by my statement: "a loss of innocence and a regain of innocence" is that through being saved she returned to how she was designed to be created; she could be viewed that way once again. And sex wasn't designed as an evil thing, so her and the Prince having sex on there wedding night isn't uninnocent. Also while the torturing of the queen may be in some versions, it is not in the orignal of Disney's, which are the two I'm basing my thoughts off of. In Disney's and the Grimm's versions the queen was killed through her own fault. In Disney's she falls off the cliff as she's trying to escape and in the Grimm's she eats some of the apple she gave Snow White herself. This could be said to represent how Satan has no power over us; before Christ Satan had death and he no longer has that anymore. He was defeated, just as the Queen was.
And I'm not trying to use this as a place to preach from, but in real life, in God's eyes, we do return to innocence, the sin is washed away, can't be seen anymore through acceptance of Jesus. Just some food for thought. I'm loving the discussion though.


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 Post subject: Snow White is DEEP, man.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:31 pm 
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AwallaceUNC wrote:
I've heard the sexual awakening interpretation...


Your whole post was very well said, AwallaceUNC! But, I just want to mention that in the french book The Little Prince, the story is about a child who dies from the bite of a snake, and I heard that it's supposed to represent childhood dying before adulthood. Also, Dan Brown said most of Walt's movies retold stories of women who are hidden by evil(Snow White is dressed in rags, Cinderella becomes a servant, Aurora becomes a peasant), like Mary Magdalene was supposedly hidden by the "evil" religious people in power. He didn't say all of Walt's films.

Crunkcourt, you also spoke very well! It's nice to talk to members of a forum who think and respond to deep conversations.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:48 am 
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Disney Duster, thank you very much for the compliment. I read the Little Prince a few years ago and will have to look over it again. Unfortunatley the only copy I have at the moment is in French and it's been a couple of years since I've had to read french so it might take me a little time. And I haven't read The Da Vinci Code yet but I know that Dan Brown tries to present many things as fact that definately aren't, at least he did in the movie, so I'd be hesitant to trust anything he says. Does he use the metaphor of clothes to be hidden by evil, or does he use the women who hide them from the world? Like the stepmother from Cinderella, etc. And does he mention them overcoming the evil in anyway? I'll have to read it myself, I just take a while to get to stuff haha.


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 Post subject: Deep Disney
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:55 am 
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crunkcourt wrote:
...I haven't read The Da Vinci Code yet but I know that Dan Brown tries to present many things as fact that definately aren't, at least he did in the movie, so I'd be hesitant to trust anything he says. Does he use the metaphor of clothes to be hidden by evil, or does he use the women who hide them from the world? Like the stepmother from Cinderella, etc. And does he mention them overcoming the evil in anyway? I'll have to read it myself, I just take a while to get to stuff haha.


You asked, and I think it's rude not to answer. Dan Brown has presented some things as historical fact that aren't, and wrote that Disney tried to tell the story of Mary Magdalene through his films about women being hidden away. Snow White and Sleeping Beauty being hidden from evil with the seven dwarfs or the three fairies is supposed to represent the "Knights Templar" who guarded the secret of Mary Magdalene. So actually I may have been wrong about Cinderella, because she never hides from the stepmother.

These theories could have already existed and Dan Brown heard them from somehwere, but he probably made them up. Either way, he made his main character, Professor Langdon, think of these theories as facts. That doesn't mean they are fact.

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 Post subject: Re: Deep Disney
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:57 pm 
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Disney Duster wrote:
Either way, he made his main character, Professor Langdon, think of these theories as facts. That doesn't mean they are fact.


This is perhaps obvious, but nevertheless important. This sort of "science" is based on philosophy, text, sometimes fiction. The "findings" of this sort of "science" may sometimes be important, but should not always be understood as facts - even if the theoretical backing seems sound.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:19 pm 
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Today I was listening to "the Mousepod" podcast, the episode which covers Snow White. During the show, the host played a phone call he received from a gal who is a Disney fan and who got to meet Adriana Caselotti, the woman who did the voice of Snow White several years ago when she was still alive.

She said Adriana lived in (as she described it) a Polynesian style house with a bridge and a wishing well in the front yard that says "I'm wishing" like in the song.... She said that when Adriana opened the door, she greeted them by singing one of the Snow White songs. Adriana told her the story about how she was discovered by Walt and got to be the voice of Snow White. I'm sure most of this is pretty well-known history so I won't repeat it, but while looking for information on Adriana, I discovered a webpage that has pictures posted of Adriana standing in front of her house dressed as Snow White (I'm guessing it was taken in the 1950s since the house appears to be 1950s vintage?), a picture of her death certificate which gives the house address, and also a picture of the house and wishing well. On her death certificate it still lists the Walt Disney Co. as her employer, yet she was 80 when she passed away! One of the things Adriana told the gal who was recounting this story is that she was paid all this time by Disney to not do anything career-wise because Walt wanted to preserve her forever as the voice of Snow White. Adriana had trained to become an opera singer (like her sister and mother) and because Walt wanted to maintain her mystique as the voice of Snow White, she never got to fulfill her dream to become a singer. As for the house, I hope to drive by there within the next few weeks and see if the house is still there. If it's still there, I'll shoot some pictures. If anyone is curious to see the posted photos, here is the link:

<a href="http://www.findadeath.com/Deceased/c/Adriana%20Caselotti/adriana_caselotti.htm">Find A Death, Adriana Caselotti</a>

BTW, while I was at Amazon.com looking for a good used copy of this DVD, I noticed someone has a list of negative Disney female characters and guess who is #1 on the list? See the list here: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/listmania/fullview/FZTW7L1ROL97/ref=cm_srch_res_rpli_alt/002-2038430-7490404">Negative Female Disney Characters.</a> Peter Pan, Pocahontas and TLM are also on the list.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:34 am 
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I enjoyed Snow White, however I saw it recently and it was SOOOO much more different to when I remember it as a kid.
For one thing, despite the fact it only went for 83 minutes, it felt like it went for 2 hours! Espiecially the washing scene before Snow White served dinner, far out Grumpy, just wash your stupid hands already! :lol:
Then again, most older Disney Movies usually do have a scene that extends for too long, eg

Cinderella (Gus and Jaq collecting the corn)
Alice in Wonderland (The Walrus and The Carpenter story, as told by Tweedledum and Tweedledee)
Peter Pan (The Native-American Ceremony celebrating the return of Tigerlilly)
There's more I just cant remember them :?

However on the whole, Snow White deserves to be considered a 'Classic'. Not just because it was the first feature-length animated movie, but because it turns 70 next year, and still manages to capture the imaginations of young children and entertain millions of people all around the world.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:07 am 
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My love for Snow White has grown in the past years. I really enjoy watching this film. The animation was and still is a true crowning achievement. Everything about it I love. I have recently been watching this movie a lot lately, I like to see and study everything in sight. Since I am majoring in Animation I spend most of my time watching diverse Animation from Anime to American. I like to watch top of the line Animation ( I think that's all I watch). Snow White is amongs one of the best out there. Sure, it looks vintage, but the effort and passion invested in creating this film really crossed borders. Snow White is responsible for setting the standard in Animation.

Scenes I simply adore are the dance sequence. I just enjoy that scene, I like watching Snow White dance, it looks so real. I also like the scene where she's picking wild flowers, that scene is so whimsical and fresh in color it just sets me in a beautiful landscape. But one of my very favorite scenes is when the queen is rushing down the stairs, her cape is heaven, it's so smoothly drawn. Little things such as these really make me realize how modern this film is although it was made years ago. This film can never be topped. It's "classic" status cannot be broken.

Snow White to me is a vintage fairytale that will never dwindle in time. It's gonna outlive all of us. I'm so grateful I own this movie and have the privilege of witnessing one of Walt's most overachieving Top of the line creations.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:07 am 
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I was checking the best Snow White Thread to post in. I wanted to ask a favor, I don't know if anybody would be kind enough to do this for me. Well I was hoping maybe somebody who owns the Snow White "Masterpiece" Laser disc and the Platinum Edition DVD could compare and contrast the differences in quality. You know sort of like the Cinderella comparison someone did a while back comparing the laser disc and DVD. If no one can I understand. It's just I wanna see how different or how similar they look.


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 Post subject: Snow White Question
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:41 pm 
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I have a question about Snow White that I am doing for an online Disney game that I really could use help with. Unfortunately for me, my Disney trivia guru of a friend is the one hosting the game, so I can't ask her.

In Snow White and The 7 Dwarfs, which dwarf has his bed in a seperate room from the other 6?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:26 pm 
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Um, as far as I can remember all of the dwarfs sleep in the same room, in the scene where Snow White goes to bed after cleaning the house, she looks at all the beds and reads the names out engraved on the ends. So ya to sum it all up they all share a room


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:28 pm 
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Yeah they all share the same room, but the one seperated from all of them is Doc's bed. I guess since he's the leader he gets his own spot, while the other six are lined up in two rows of three beds in each.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:29 pm 
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Thanks, and I misread the question. It was which one was seperate from the others, but did not say in another room. Thank you, though ;)


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:02 pm 
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Even though many of us hold respect for this movie, and still claim it fairest of them all, I'm sure not everyone likes ever aspect of this movie. I enjoy the story and the characters, but Snow White herself has always made me cringe. It's just that voice! I would love a softer-tone in her voice. So, if you would change anything, what would it be?



P.S. I want everyone to know that this thread was not made to be disrespectful. Just write would you would change. :)


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:30 pm 
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Let's see Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. Funny I just made a cool fan art last night lol. But anyways I don't I think I would want to change any of because it would lose it's Classic status. Perhaps if I was involved in production of this movie, I would have wanted to picke a different voice actress. Her voice now is okay but it is a little strange sounding. But in respect to what Adriana Casseloti once said "I mite not live forever but my voice will be eternal" or something like that, so it would be very sad if her voice was changed, which I wouldnt want to do. I think another thing I would change is give the Prince more involved in the story and some more lines.

Other then that I think Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs is a great film.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:09 pm 
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HER VOICE!!!!!!

:)

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:14 pm 
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There was a change in snow white during the '90's. A Disney artist , Sandra Bhardwaj, redesigned Snow White to look more comtemporary, including a bustline. That raised all kinds of eyebrows, and another Disney artist overseeing the princess line combined both Sandras' and the classic Snow White into yet another design which became the current version used for advertising commercial products.
Sandra's original version still crops up now and then in some older consumer products.

My apologies for the bandwidth issues the example URL I had posted raised. That link has been removed...the description below should suffice.

Clues to Sandra's Snow White are; modernized eyes with shaded lids, more detail in hair (but hair mass is a little smaller), a __lot__ more detail in the skirt which is folded over the waist belt, slightly stronger chin, and of course, the bust (most like Belle's when she is in work dress).

As for Snow's voice, Disney himself chose Adriana Caselotti for Snow White. Many of the choices for Snow's voice and look were heavily influenced by the 30's era, as was Cinderella by the 50's.

Oh yeah, one other little tidbit; Snow White is one of the very few Disney heroines to have fully jointed fingers for the whole movie (base, mid, tip). Usually, a single joint finger (base, tip) was used as it has a more stylish look (though in some scenes Cinderella also had fully jointed fingers)

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Last edited by kurtadisneyite on Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:12 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:27 pm 
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Her speaking voice isn't bad, but her singing could do with a little improvement. Still, I wouldn't want it changed now.


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