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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:18 am 
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(Wanted to post this earlier, but got busy)

I agree with you Disney Duster, that Fairest of All is definitely not the queen's official backstory. But I don't think Valentino intended for it to be taken as fact, just a sort of alternate universe, "What if?" kind of book. Similarly, Milton doesn't claim Paradise Lost as what actually happened in the Adam and Eve story. You could watch Snow White in light of Fairest of All and see the movie another way (as these kind of books rely on the source), but you can still see the movie for what it was. They're almost two different stories, to be looked at in different ways.

As for the actual quality of the book, I agree that I don't like when villains are disempowered. I think there's a way to explain a villain's backstory/reasoning without making them any less evil or powerful. Of course, the villain's automatically going to become sympathetic because we are seeing things from their perspective--but what they see and the truth is a bit different (a reader can see that a character's rationalizing their actions). Having the Evil Queen be haunted by the three sisters makes it seem as if she really had no choice but to be the way she was or that she was excusable because she had been driven slightly mad, which ultimately makes her a tool and not a real villain. But I suppose Valentino's book is just a look at an alternate universe where the Evil Queen isn't supposed to be seen as a villain who's rationalizing, but someone whose actions are out of their control.

And, no, I don't really have plans to read this book. 1. The Evil Queen's not interesting enough to read about. 2. Going on a review I've seen, the book isn't very good (in plot or writing). And I never read Wicked, though not for lack of trying (got to the club scene and couldn't go on). Wicked seems more on line with The Wizard of Oz in spirit though, maybe because it becomes so political (where the movie/book have a lot of political subtext).

If anyone wants to read the review I read on Fairest of All, here's the link: http://community.livejournal.com/d_princesses/719741.html

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:39 pm 
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So I just discovered this but there used to be an actual stage show production of Snow White (the Disney version) made for Radio City Music Hall during the late 1970s - early 1980s.

I found the documentary on Youtube. (Part One) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPsE5U5Zdgc

The actress who did Snow White is AMAZING! She almost sounds like Adriana Caselotti when she sings!

I hate the dwarve masks though. Then again this show was made nearly 30 years ago.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:17 pm 
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toonsaspie, I saw clips from that show and the documentary! Some of it looked good, some of it looked bad. The dwarfs masks look okay from far away to me but they could've been better, les creepy. But the witch, her transformation was ingeniusly great and she was very, very scary like some kind of nightmarish psychotic murderer!

Dragonlion, Snow White is supposed to be more innocent than an average person, she is supposed to be pure good and incapable of thinking of anything bad. Her character is a good, kind one, the fairest one of all.

Thanks for the info Rudy Matt, you're probably right about all that, though I still consider those Oscars as also a way of saying, "Your film deserved the Best Picture Oscar, or something almost as signifigant".

Thanks Divinity. I guess it is an alternate view. Did you read Paradise Lost? Not that I did, just wondering if you did. Wicked's really good, if you like the witches and magic of Oz a lot, you would like that book a lot. It's a lot deeper and I do think better than the Broadway show, but I also love the Broadway show.

Even though I have yet to watch Snow White's recent Platinum and see the film again, I don't even have to see the film recently to remember the scenes, showing how good it is, to say:

"Someday My Princes Will Come" and "I'm Wishing" doesn't mean sit and wait for someone to take you away from all your troubles, but that the one who you want and will make you happiest will come, wait for that someone who will make you happiest, and it would be nice to go to the place they live which, castle or other, will be a happier place with you two together. Snow White clearly was happy in the cottage, the Prince didn't bring all her happiness.

Like Sleeping Beauty, the film touches on our hope to overcome death, and says we can, but this film did it first. It's good for a film to tell us that since science cannot measure the soul, and it's not true that the world is a dark place where things only end negatively. The truth is bad things happen but good things will come, too.

The film's shows off nicely what people to day to day. It doesn't just show only dramatic things, but alos shows us that cleaning the house, cooking, washing, and dancing can be interesting, fun, and enjoyable to do and watch. Though I certainly wouldn't argue that the film might be better with something more interesting or dramatic replacing dwarf washing...it also shows us that a film can be made up of mostly happy moments and be entertaining instead of mostly dark, villanous, or sad moments, though other Disney films make daily household doings fun and have more happy than negative moments as well.

The film is powerful. It is one of the best of the best. It can be ranked next to Beauty and the Beast and the greatest films. It's ending is grandly, beatifically breathtaking, and I must admit it may be the best or most powerful happily ever after ending, cinematically and feeling-wise, out of all Disney films and maybe all films. Darn how good it is with it's heavenly castle!

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 Post subject: Snow White Discussion
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:54 pm 
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Hey does anyone know...

I heard that at the end of the film, in or on the closing storybook, you see the comb the Evil Queen tried to poison Snow White with in the original fairy tale, with strands of Snow White's hair. So I looked and...

It looks like on the page where it says "...and they lived happily ever after", there is a shield with white feathers or just designs there. But is that shield the comb and the white curls Snow Whit's hair? It looks like no comb I've ever seen and Snow White's hair would be black.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:11 pm 
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Does anyone know where to hear any of the recordings from this record??? musicradio77?!?!? I can't find any more info than what this site says:

http://filmic-light.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... -1949.html
(via disneylicious.com)


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:58 pm 
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I would love to hear Ilene Woods' interpretation of Snow White....Disney should release this on CD!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:45 pm 
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I too am very curious about this. I had heard about it before, but thanks for the extra detail, my. Now all we need is to hear the darn thing! And see the book that came with it?

I hope Ilene decided to play Snow White noticeably differently from Cinderella.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:54 pm 
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Oh my goodness !! What an unusual choice, to pick Illene to play Snow White. I can see how they were trying to introduce their newest Princess voice, but their voices could not have been more different ?!

I bet the original Snow wouldnt have been very happy about this .... she always seemed so proud about her involvement with Disney and always playing her, even in the theme parks. Were there any other times when someone else took over Snow White / Cinderella / Aurora's voices ?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:26 pm 
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I agree Adriana and Ilene's voices are both extremly different. Ilene has a smooth, deeper voice more akin to singing in a club or a lounge. While Adriana has a very high opreatic soprano voice. I would say Mary Costa would have been a better choice to do Snow White's voice as she has a more opreatic voice like Ms. Caselotti, only her voice is more mature sounding and fuller.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:10 pm 
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Marge Champion in Life Magazine
http://www.cartoonbrew.com/disney/marge ... azine.html


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:34 pm 
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FYI- Snow White will be aired on ABC Family this Saturday (9/11) at 8PM!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:19 am 
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I actually have a DVD of the Radio City Music Hall production, taken from a 2nd generation VHS dub of one of the original TV broadcasts. As such, the quality isn't pristine, but since it's all I have and I'm not about to pay $200+ for a the VHS tape, it'll do. It's got its pros and cons, but if you can track it down, it's worth checking out.

In my boredom, I've made fake Criterion Collection DVD covers tonight - anyone who's seen more than two Criterion DVD's knows that their covers are often very striking and contemporary. While I have no illusions that mine are as good as official ones, I do my best to keep up with the spirit of Criterion's artwork. So here's my Criterion DVD of Snow White. :D You can click the pic to view a more HQ version on my Tumblr.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:51 am 
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I am not reading 12 pages of this to remember if anyone, including me, touched on these two things or not:

Maybe Snow White wasn't 7 when she was married. Maybe she was in that coffin for like 7 years, making her 14 when she finally married the prince, and the very age the Disney one is.

Now, I have a question:
Why does Snow White not go with the prince when she meets him the first time at the castle? I know that originally he was going to be cuaght by the queen and imprisoned, but that leads to a whole 'nother bunch of questions, like why didn't Snow White look for him in her own castle and try to free him? Because she was a weak fmeale? :roll: And then it wouldn't explain why she's so happy picking wildflowers in her princess dress before she almost gets killed and then runs off to the seven dwarfs' house. Anyway, the movie does not have him captured so there's much less of a reason why she doesn't go off to his castle. Is she just too shy at first? But then why does she sing of meeting him again and how she'll go with him soon as he shows up again? Because by that time she wasn't too shy? What?

Well, any thoughts?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:25 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
I too am very curious about this. I had heard about it before, but thanks for the extra detail, my. Now all we need is to hear the darn thing! And see the book that came with it?

I hope Ilene decided to play Snow White noticeably differently from Cinderella.


I have it, if you want to hear it

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:50 am 
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I was watching SW&tSD the other day on Freeform—not the whole thing, just the beginning up to when she runs into the woods (the best scenes)—and I realized how much I always liked SW the character, even though she's a regressive female character. I can definitely see the similarities between Walt’s first 5 features and how they are in a class all their own from his other animated works.

As to your question, Duster, I always assumed the Queen would’ve kept Snow from marrying anyone. I imagine she’d have to give her consent unless Snow and the Prince wanted to try eloping somehow.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:10 am 
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Sicoe Vlad wrote:
Disney Duster wrote:
I too am very curious about this. I had heard about it before, but thanks for the extra detail, my. Now all we need is to hear the darn thing! And see the book that came with it?

I hope Ilene decided to play Snow White noticeably differently from Cinderella.


I have it, if you want to hear it

Oh, yes I would, thank you! Please email it to me! If you don't remember my address, pm me and I'll tell you!

Disney's Divinity wrote:
I was watching SW&tSD the other day on Freeform—not the whole thing, just the beginning up to when she runs into the woods (the best scenes)—and I realized how much I always liked SW the character, even though she's a regressive female character. I can definitely see the similarities between Walt’s first 5 features and how they are in a class all their own from his other animated works.

As to your question, Duster, I always assumed the Queen would’ve kept Snow from marrying anyone. I imagine she’d have to give her consent unless Snow and the Prince wanted to try eloping somehow.

I'm glad you like the character! But then I'm surprised how you don't want to watch the rest of the movie. I know the dwarfs go on a little too long, but Snow White is mostly in the rest, too. But yes, Snow White is an endearing, sweet, caring, lovable character. I don't find her regressive, actually. She had to obey the queen at first, then when she had to run away, she did, and she found a way to live. Who cares that she did typical housewife duties to earn her living? It wouldn't matter if she had to mine like the other dwarfs to earn her living, it's still all earning a living. And it's obvious the men eventually keep her with them because they love her. And who cares if she was naive enough to fall to the queen's trickery? And so what if she dreamed of a better life with the man she loved in "Someday My Prince Will Come"? I suppose the only thing she could have done was get a horse and travel all over to find him. That's the only regressive thing I can think about her.

Thanks for trying to answer my question. Hm...I thought the prince would have the power to marry anyone he wanted, but maybe you're right, that the queen could forbid it because she was in charge of the land he was visiting and of the princess. Great answer. Just wish I knew if that was the true case.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:01 am 
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I think as far as why did Snow White do nothing but sit back for her Prince to come back... She probably had never been outside the castle walls by herself, and wouldn't even know where to begin to go to search for him. Running away to nothing in particular (woods? Wild beasts?) would have been such an unknown concept for her.

The above link (from 2010) wasn't working for the Ilene Woods as Snow White record post, but I found it (and it has a YouTube video at the bottom of the page!!!):

Ilene Woods As Snow White - 1949 RCA-Victor Y-33
http://filmic-light.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... 9-rca.html


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:21 pm 
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Disney Duster wrote:
Hey does anyone know...

I heard that at the end of the film, in or on the closing storybook, you see the comb the Evil Queen tried to poison Snow White with in the original fairy tale, with strands of Snow White's hair. So I looked and...

It looks like on the page where it says "...and they lived happily ever after", there is a shield with white feathers or just designs there. But is that shield the comb and the white curls Snow Whit's hair? It looks like no comb I've ever seen and Snow White's hair would be black.

The comb is on the first storybook page I think.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:26 pm 
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Oh, thank you Amy!!! Ilene didn't do as good a job as Snow White as the original super sweet and endearing Adriana Caselotti, but I loved hearing her speak, sing, and her acting with the apple was great! Likewise, Eleanor Audley was not as great as the evil queen or witch, but she was rather fantastic at being the witch in her own right! Didn't know she could change her voice like that! So we can see now the original voices for Snow White, the Queen, Cinderella, and Lady Tremaine were the best choices.

As for what you said for Snow White not leaving to fidn her prince, you have a good answer, too.

Interesting that the album you linked me to said Snow White was too shy and hoped the prince would come back some day. So perhaps that was the reason she didn't go with him. She was too shy at first. Had to take time to get over it, I guess?

JeanGreyForever, I am certain in that picture that crown is not over a comb but over the brush Snow White had to use to scrub the steps. But maybe you are right in that is what people think was the comb?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:54 pm 
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That's what I thought too but I can't think of what else would be considered the comb then.

Here's a few designs of what the comb could have looked like. The first one is fan-designed and the other is from a storybook.
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