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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:03 pm 
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Hi,

So I was thinking about certain Disney movies that have certain stories surroinding them that make me ask you guys your thoughts on them.

In no particular order...

1.The Sword in the Stone and Robin Hood are far from being perfect. However, most of us have them in very high regards as charming and fun. Why is that?

2. The Rescuers and The Rescuers Down Under. I find the first to be the best overall. Has a certain dark atmosphere similar to The Secret of NIMH. It had to be very well received since they made the sequel. I found that one to be quite plain. However, most people enjoy it a lot. Yet, both seem to be forgotten by most. Why is that?

3. The Great Mouse Detective is a great movie. So, why is it so underrated?

4. According to the DVD/BD of Oliver and Company and even on the Extras in The Little Mermaid is told that it was a huge success. If that´s so, why is mostly forgotten? Even plenty of the movies from the 70´s and 80´s are more well known.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:13 pm 
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1. I'm not one of those, so I can't speak for them.

As for The Rescuers, The Great Mouse Detective and Oliver and Company. They were "forgotten" because The Disney Renaissance happened with more superior and critically acclaimed films that feel more cinematic. All three of them have sort of TV cartoons feeling, not that that's bad, I love The Great Mouse Detective, but it's not as visually rich as The Little Mermaid or Beauty and the Beast, etc... (By the way to me the "Renaissance" or whatever anyone wants to call that era started with The Great Mouse Detective and ended with Treasure Planet, with its height being The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin and The Lion King).

Regarding The Rescuers vs The Rescuers Down Under - I'm not really a fan of either, but the animation of the sequel is not like anything that was seen before so I guess it gets credit for its technological achievement. I haven't seen these films in a very long time and I don't plan to so I can't really speak to what worked/didn't work on each.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:32 pm 
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1. As far as The Sword in the Stone & Robin Hood, they were first released on video in the '80s, so many of us were able to grow up with them. I personally grew up with RH, and it's in my Top 10; it's very familiar and comfortable to me. I always had TSitS on my Christmas/birthday wishlists growing up, but I never got it until I was a grownup. So while I enjoy the film, I don't hold it in as high regard as I do RH. (But again, I didn't grow up with TP&tF or Raya, and those are in my Top movies list...)

2. a) I wonder if because both Rescuers films were not on video in the '80s (obviously TRDU didn't exist!), maybe because some people didn't grow up with them, they hold them in less regard. b) I think also that maybe the strengths of the villains are not as strong as what some people like, so they don't like these two films as much as some other Disney films. c) I think the Walt-era films and Princess films have their huge fanbases, and for some reasons, some of the films that don't fit into that mold aren't as popular. (I say that TRDU has the best or one of the best cinematography of any DAC. It's a beautiful film. And I find that McLeach especially, but Medusa too, are more scary to me as an adult then they were when I was a kid. Like, they are committing child abuse, OMG.)

3. a) Same, it was not on video in the '80s. b) While Ratigan is personally one of my favorite villains, it could be the same reason I gave above- that many people prefer other villains, so the film isn't regarded as highly. c) Same, not Walt-era and no Princesses.

4. a) Same (video). b) Same (villain). c) Same (not Walt-era, no Princesses). I have always been obsessed with the O&Co soundtrack. For all of these except RH, while I love them, they're not in my Top 10, but I always enjoy watching them.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:57 pm 
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I wouldn't say most hold TSitS and RH in high regards. I think RH usually gets more attention since it's often said to have a cult following. I don't really care about RH, but I've always loved TSitS. I just find everything about TSitS hilarious and I think several animators from that time have said it has some of the best character animation of Walt's films. I tend to think most people who hate the film expected something along the lines of King Arthur, Guinevere, Lancelot, the Round Table, Mordred, etc., but the book The Sword in the Stone does not cover those parts of the Arthur story. Most of the humor for me comes from Archimedes and Merlin, who are quintessential grouchy, crotchedy old men. :lol: The scene with Mim is the most renowned--deservedly so--but I actually put her third behind those two as my favorite part of this. With RH, on the other hand, the only thing I've ever felt strongly about that film is how funny Lady Kluck is, particularly when she's fighting the Rhino and Elephant guards and they simulate a football field run. :lol: :lol: When I was a child, I was always a little confused why they borrowed Baloo's and Kaa's designs. Being older now, I assume it was a cost-saving decision instead of coming up with something new the animators had to learn to animate, but I don't really like that the characters are so much alike. If the whole cast had been old animal characters re-purposed for a RH re-telling, that would've made more sense.

2. I agree that The Rescuers has an atmosphere to it that reminds me of older Walt films. Tbh, I was one of those who always preferred the sequel. The only things I can think to explain that are that I liked McLeach, Cody, Joanna, and Marahute more than Medusa, her assistant, the crocodiles, and Penny, all of whom I found annoying to varying degrees (not to mention the drunken hick critters, lol). The opening scene with the international gathering of all the mice singing and the scene of Penny down in the hole searching for the Devil's Eye are the only great moments in the film, imo, although I do find Bernard, Orville, and Evinrude funny and/or likable characters. I think another thing is Bianca. I've never been a big fan of the character, and she's more condescending towards Bernard in the first film than the second. That adds to my preference of the second. I think another reason could simply be the setting. Australia with the kangaroos, eagles, etc. is more fun than a dark, insect-ridden, rat-infested swamp.

3. I'm not sure why. I suppose its leads are fairly unconventional for Disney--two old guys and a little girl. I doubt that's the reason it's overlooked though. I do think its animation is a little on the weak side... There are so many moments that look like something you'd see in a TV series rather than a Disney film. For example, The Rescuers and its sequel are both centered on mice just like TGMD, but they never look as bad as many parts of TGMD. I know those early years of the Renaissance (TGMD, O&C, TLM, B&tB), budget and time were an issue. TLK is the first one of the Renaissance that doesn't feel like it has several badly-animated moments sandwiched between scenes of higher quality. And it's such a shame that the moment they hit their peak as far as animation goes, the quality of everything else seems to drop somewhat or at least inspired more of a divided reaction from audiences.

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