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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:25 am 
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Regarding her movie having it´s Silver Anniversary this year and regardless of its negative reputation and it´s controversy, it´s still fair to say that she´s regarded as the epitome of a non-Caucasian heroine. I know that I´ve mentioned this priorly, but I´ve noticed how every non-Caucasian heroine gets compared to Pocahontas. Of course we all know that she wasn´t the first non-White heroine from the Renaissance (that honor goes to Princess Jasmine). Nor was she the first non-white female character from Disney to ever grace the screen (Tiger Lily from Peter Pan and Shanti from The Jungle Book).
But at least she was the first female of color to actually lead her movie. But after then, every following non-Caucasian heroine has been frequently compared to Pocahontas. Still, Pocahontas doesn´t just get referenced by Disney lovers, but by people in general. I´ve noticed at a daily basis how people have a general tendency to jokingly refer women of color as Pocahontas (and not necessarily just Native American women).

So do you agree with on this point?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:15 pm 
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I don't really recall Mulan or Tiana being compared to Pocahontas exactly? But I do notice it happens a lot with Moana for some reason. Maybe it's because there are a lot of scenes with Moana with her hair flying in the wind, sort of like Pocahontas? :? She's also in touch with the ocean in a similar way to Pocahontas and the earth, I guess?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:25 pm 
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Lindsay Ellis does a more thoughtful comparison between Moana and Pocahontas in the first minute of this video:

[youtube] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ARX0-AylFI&t=12s [/youtube]


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:35 pm 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
But I do notice it happens a lot with Moana for some reason. Maybe it's because there are a lot of scenes with Moana with her hair flying in the wind, sort of like Pocahontas?

Well, both Moana and Pocahontas are Indigenous and Moana looks a bit like Pocahontas, especially in some concept art. You can only differentiate so much within a certain style. I don't think they're that alike, but I can see why people are drawing comparisons.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:38 pm 
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Well, to be fair, at least the Moana-comparison makes sense. After all, both are daughters of tribal chiefs and both have frankly various similarities in common (which even the always Pocahontas-loathing Lindsay Ellis pointed out in her Pocahontas Was a Mistake-video three years ago). Perhaps Tiana haven´t been compared to Pocahontas as much, but at least Mulan did receive various comparisons. While the comparisons between Mulan and Pocahontas may be shallow, both movies share various similarites, more than people give them credit for: A war between two different races, where the invadors are antagonistic (and frankly, both Ratcliffe and Shan-Yu have similar shapes and black hair). Both heroines having Grandmothers (though Mulan´s case is more literal) and falls in love with a Captain. And besides, in the scene where Fa Zhou gets called to war, Mulan´s hair blows in the wind, just as Pocahontas´(a shallow cue, but still).

Even Esmeralda was somewhat compared to Pocahontas, believe it or not (though personally, I´ve always thought that a Jasmine-comparison would´ve made more sense. Since both originates from races which aren´t too far from each other).

thedisneyspirit wrote:
Lindsay Ellis does a more thoughtful comparison between Moana and Pocahontas in the first minute of this video:

I know ;) :) Even I didn´t noticed all the comparisons before she brought it up :P

Sotiris wrote:
Well, both Moana and Pocahontas are Indigenous and Moana looks a bit like Pocahontas, especially in some concept art. You can only differentiate so much within a certain style. I don't think they're that alike, but I can see why people are drawing comparisons.

Well, technically it would´ve been more fair to compare Moana to Nani. Since both of them are Polynesian, after all.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:45 pm 
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Oh, yeah, they're both daughters of chiefs, how could I forget that. I'll try to watch that video later tonight, thedisneyspirit. I just had a thought that they both have necklaces, although I guess that's a shallow similarity.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:49 am 
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DisneyFan09 wrote:
Even Esmeralda was somewhat compared to Pocahontas, believe it or not (though personally, I´ve always thought that a Jasmine-comparison would´ve made more sense. Since both originates from races which aren´t too far from each other).

Esmeralda and Pocahontas make sense because of the following reasons.

Both are non-princesses (unlike Ariel, Belle, Jasmine, etc.) who aren't teenagers but meant to be older than the prototypical Disney Princess. Pocahontas was designed to feel more mature than her predecessors and Esmeralda was a full-fledged woman in her 20s.

Both of them didn't come from fairy tales but from films with darker themes and more mature content. Pocahontas and Esmeralda both deal with racism, sexism (mostly Esmeralda), and even the genocide of their respective races.

Both stand up against injustice with Pocahontas' impassioned speech to her father, her people and the settlers in the finale and Esmeralda demanding Quasi's release at the Festival of Fools as she blames Frollo for the plight of her people. Both women become symbols for their people through these acts as evident by the finales of their films.

Also both fall in love with an older, blonde captain known for wearing heavy armor and a helmet and even their colors sort of match as John Smith wears silver and Phoebus wears gold. Both Smith and Phoebus have fought in wars and traveled across the world (or Europe in Phoebus' case) so they're more worldly than their heroines but Pocahontas and Esmeralda are more than a match for them.

Even the signature songs of these two heroines preach a moral message, Pocahontas calling for environmentalism and preservation of the earth and Esmeralda asking for humanity to treat each other more kindly regardless of race, religion, gender, etc.

So I don't think it's a surprise at all that Pocahontas and Esmeralda get commonly compared even if Esmeralda has a lot in common with Jasmine just as Pocahontas has a lot in common with Ariel.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:37 am 
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I've only seen Mulan and Moana compared more favorably to Pocahontas, and I've never heard WoC were referred to as "Pocahontas".


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:27 am 
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Donald Trump calls Elizabeth Warren Pocahontas as a slur. I think he's done it to other women as well.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:27 am 
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JeanGreyForever wrote:
Donald Trump calls Elizabeth Warren Pocahontas as a slur. I think he's done it to other women as well.

That's despicable.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:32 am 
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farerb wrote:
JeanGreyForever wrote:
Donald Trump calls Elizabeth Warren Pocahontas as a slur. I think he's done it to other women as well.

That's despicable.

It's par for the course for 45. Can't wait to see him call her that when he's in jail and she's Vice President.

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