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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:27 pm 
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I thinks this has been done before many times but I thought of bringing it back. With a twist.

Favorites:

Aladdin - Always has been my favorite. Don´t know what it has but I always loved it.
The Little Mermaid - The last of the 80´s movies. Adore the underwater setting and how obscure it is.
The Hunchback of Notre Dame - Discovered it much later but quickly loved it because of it´s adult and obscure tones. The gargoyles ruin it.
Treasure Planet - Enjoy the adventure, the space setting is great and I can relate to the story. Wish there was more adventure though.
Sleeping Beauty- Can´t believe it´s now in my top 5. But slowly learned to appreciate it as the masterpiece it is.

Dislike:

Home on the Range - Hate everything about it.
Chicken Little - Disney trying to copy Dreamworks doing it very poorly and the story is a mess.
The Fox and the Hound - Feels lacking, incomplete, the songs are bad, the animation is bad at moments and it´s a depressing movie just because. Have never understood it´s appeal.
Oliver and Company - Should like it because of it´s 80s setting and most songs are very good. But probably because as a Disney movie should be timeless, the songs that are bad are bad. Never have enjoyed the story and characters.
Meet the Robinsons - Another movie that I can´t find the appeal. I know the intentions are there but never can get them. And for a movie named after the Robinsons it takes a while to get to them and you barely remember only the mother since they´re never well established. And the jokes are pretty bad.

Surprisingly enjoyable; these are the movies that you aren´t that interested in but enjoy them anyways. Just name 5.

...in no particular order in this case...

The Rescuers - Charming movie that offers a very good story/mystery.
Pocahontas - A movie that takes an effort on me to watch but once I´m watching it I never regret it.
Tarzan - Never I´ve liked the Tarzan stories. Yet this one grabs my attention all the time. Probably the incredible animation adds to it.
Fantasia 2000 - Don´t like it´s concept. The original one, despite been much better, takes so much of me to watch but once I finish it I´m glad I did. However, probably because this one offers more or less the same as the original with the perfect running time I can manage to watch it much easily.
Snow White: I hated this one for the longest time. So much so that didn´t even want to get it. But learned to like it each time more. The animation is amazing. The music, even with SW´s high voice, is iconic. If it wasn´t for the scene with the dwarves cleaning themselves would have been much better as it drags for me.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:31 pm 
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Wow, we have similar favorites.

My favorites:
1) The Little Mermaid - my absolute favorite of all time! I can see why this movie spoke to a whole new generation and Ariel will always be my idol.
2) Aladdin - Love this one after Mermaid probably because of the similarities that stem from the same filmmakers. The setting is so sumptuous with the bold colors. Only wish Jasmine had her own song.
3) Sleeping Beauty - The ultimate fairy tale. I don't mind the lack of character development because the character designs, visuals, and music more than make up for all that.
4) The Hunchback of Notre Dame - I think the peak of Disney animation. It's such an ambitious film and it mostly works with the exception of the gargoyles, Hugo namely. I also wish they kept some of the original deleted songs over clunkers like A Guy Like You and The Court of Miracles.
5) Alice in Wonderland - this film gets a lot of undue hate but those claiming it is episodic or unhinged would clearly not like the book either. It's one of my favorite books and I find this the most faithful adaptation since it actually uses Carroll's original text.

If I could fill out my top ten, they would be Beauty and the Beast, Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, Cinderella, Pocahontas, and Tarzan, although not necessarily in that order.

My least favorites:
1) Robin Hood - I despise this film. Could barely get through it the other day on Disney+. The characters are all bland, the animation that isn't recycled is garbage, and the songs are abysmal. Making the cast animals is a twist I don't care for especially since none of the characters are really affected by being a new species besides Sir Hiss. There's something wrong with a film when the only enjoyable characters are the two villains whose greed is leaving everyone else penniless.
2) The Sword in the Stone - the animation is a real drop after Sleeping Beauty and Dalmatians. The characters are not enjoyable at all except for Archimedes and the songs are lackluster and a poor showing for the Sherman Brothers' debut. Really wish they had gone for a tighter story like in the alternate opening. The lack of Walt is very evident here.
3) Tangled - I know people love this film but it's easily one of my least favs. It butchers the source material for a final product that isn't nearly as clever as it likes to think it is. I don't like any of the characters, barely any of the songs, and the setting is so cliche.
4) Peter Pan - used to be one of my favorites but I don't think it's a good adaptation of the book anymore. The story loses all its depth and the characters frankly are not sympathetic, beyond an overly comical villain. Even Neverland isn't very magical or captivating surprisingly unlike the opening nursery scenes. Walt Disney's films get accused of racism or sexism a lot but this is one of his few films that I think is a legitimate example of not just one but both accusations. Probably his film that has aged the least well.
5) Hercules - you can tell that the makers of this film were not interested in working with Greek Mythology. Some of the lines are pretty funny zingers but there's so many of them that they overwhelm and take away from the heart of the story which is pretty much nonexistent. The songs are pretty weak, I'm not a fan of the visual style, and the CGI is detestable and was frankly outdated even when the film came out.

Flawed but enjoyable:
1) Frozen - I actually love this film but the story has a lot of issues and you can tell that they only finalized it a few months before release. I really don't like how Elsa doesn't get much of a focus or how Hans' character was wasted. Kristoff is an utter bore and unfortunately we're saddled with him for the sequel as well. What's worse is the hypocrisy of the film's message claiming that Hans cannot be Anna's true love because they've only known each other for a day but it immediately works around to make Kristoff her true love when he's known her maybe an hour longer.
2) The Great Mouse Detective - This film has a lot of charm and I adore the characters, especially Basil. However, the visuals are very weak and this film looks pretty ugly. The songs are not that mindblowing either. Definitely could have used that extra year to be made as well as the budget not being slashed in half.
3) The Fox and the Hound - I love the message of this film and it really resonated with me after watching it on Disney+ for the first time since I was a child. However, the music is very forgettable and the ending is robbed of its power from Chief's survival. I actually think this film would be better regarded had the original ending been retained.
4) Atlantis: The Lost Empire - I know this film gets a pretty terrible reputation but I actually never minded it. The Emperor's New Groove was a film that I never felt seemed like Disney but I was more accepting of Atlantis for some reason. I love the mystery aspect of Atlantis and the actual civilization which is a nice twist from what it usually presented in films. I don't think it deserves the reputation it gets.
5) Meet the Robinsons - was torn between this film or Treasure Planet but I actually don't find Treasure Planet very flawed at all and think the film was more harmed because of its marketing and release date. As for Meet the Robinsons, I've always loved this one but the visuals have aged really badly. I wish it was better regarded because I love how it uses Walt's mantra and the adoption storyline in particular really moved me.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:36 pm 
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Off the top of my head—and without consulting lists I’ve made in the past, just picking in the moment—I’d say:

Favorite:
- The Little Mermaid ~ I love everything about this film. Music, characters, designs, plot, dialogue, vocal performances. The theme is probably the one I most connect to of any Disney film. Ariel and Ursula are two of Disney's best characters, and Sebastian and Triton are also very strong characters, too. I love nearly every scene in the film, but "Poor Unfortunate Souls," "Part of Your World," and the climax with Ursula (from Ariel's re-gaining her voice on the boat to Ursula's death) are my favorites. Then Triton in Ariel's grotto, Ariel singing on the rock, and Ursula's introduction and post-KtG scene would be the next favorites. I like the humor, too. Ariel not knowing what the heck anything is (probably worse off with Scuttle than if she had been left on her own; the blind leading the blind :lol: ), Sebastian having meltdowns over what Triton will say or do, Ursula's disdain for Ariel in her veiled comments and expressions, everything with Chef Louie. Scuttle is actually the least funny. The only scene he really makes me laugh is when he starts slamming Sebastian into the ground when he's trying to explain about Ursula being Vanessa--I think it's partly funny because of how mean Sebastian is to Scuttle the whole film. Anyway, the film is also very visually striking. It doesn't have the best animation in Disney's history by any means, but Triton's palace, Ursula's tentacles, the special effects, Flotsam and Jetsam with their mirrored eyes, Ariel in her grotto, the ghost hands that steal Ariel's voice, Ursula's golden scroll, the neon blue of the whirlpool in the final battle, Ursula's giant head emerging from below Ariel and Eric--the images really stick with you.
- Hercules ~ I love the animation, design, comedy, music ("I Won't Say (I'm in Love)" is definitely the highlight), voice acting, everything. Hades, Megara, and Hercules are some of my absolute favorite Disney characters. Hercules and Megara are one of the few Disney romances I actually enjoy, where both characters are likable and interesting to me. The Titans, Muses, and Fates are also great parts of the film for me. Like Ursula in TLM and Monstro in Pinocchio, they do a good job giving the gigantic Titans and Cyclops so much weight on the screen. I only wish they'd had a little more fighting from the Titans on Mt. Olympus before they're destroyed.
- The Sword in the Stone ~ Merlin, Archimedes, and Mim are all hilarious. I love the "Higitus Figitus," dishwashing, and wizard's duel scenes. I also love Merlin in the tilting tower with the leaky roof, being chased by the wolf at the beginning, blasting off to Bermuda at the end, and getting his beard caught in everything. "That's What Makes the World Go 'Round" is my favorite of the songs. Archimedes is easily the funniest part of the movie to me; he's an even more ornery, crotchety old man than Merlin is. :lol: When he's nearly killed when the bird house is shrinking on him, then him laughing at Merlin's crashed airplane, trying to teach Wart how to write, etc.--I'm dying. Funniest moment in the film for me is when Archimedes is "rescuing" fish!Wart--or was he only fighting over lunch?--and blows up like a balloon afterwards when called out for "caring" about the boy by Merlin. Probably the next moment would be Mim turning herself beautiful, shaking her voluptuousness around and mesmerizing Wart, only to end with "I'M AN UGLY OLD CREEP!!" :lol: It's an episodic film, but I do like the mini-lesson of brains versus brawn, too. I prefer it to other episodic films they've made (like Alice and TJB).
- Pinocchio ~ This film is one of their greatest masterpieces, imo. I'm never bored throughout everything that happens. I've always loved Figaro, and he's still one of the best Disney "sidekicks," imo. Geppetto is a really sweet character, too--much more than other doddering fool father figures like the Sultan or Maurice. I don't really care about the Coachman as much as others on this forum do; I remember that was everyone's favorite part, particularly that all the villains get away with their behavior. No, my favorite part was always the ocean scene. Monstro's amazing. Honest John's probably my next favorite of the villains. "I've Got No Strings" is a great scene, too.
- One Hundred and One Dalmatians ~ Cruella is the best thing, of course--including her car--but I also love Pongo, Sgt. Tibbs, Nanny (my favorite Verna Felton character by far--this is what she'd sounded like playing Merryweather in SB, I suppose. :P ), Roger and Anita. The most disappointing part of the film for me is Perdita. She's such a non-entity. She might as well be "Mother" for all the personality she has. The film is one of their best-animated, imo. The car, the way the dogs move, the snow / mush / icy rivers--really amazing to watch even now. Like the bubbles in TLM, I'm always amazed that they animated the backgrounds to show the evidence left behind from every movement (whether from a car or animal). One of my favorite parts is when Cruella drives down a snow bank in the chase at the end. And then is backing up and forwards. The snow is so fantastic and so are the twitchy car movements from her shifting gears.

The top 3 never shift. They were favorites when I was a child, and I only felt more strongly about them as I got older. Everything below does. But Pinocchio, Dalmatians, and Cinderella have always been my consistent next-favorites. I think Mulan has shifted around a bit for me. I think I used to have it in my top 5, then lower top 10, now probably right around the edge of top 10. Depends on the day or how recently I've seen it.

Least Favorite:
- Big Hero 6 ~ I love Tadashi and Baymax is cute, but… The rest of it? Blah…. Hiro is one of the worst Disney protagonists.
- Chicken Little ~ I think I’ve only seen this once and have zero interest in ever seeing it again. Same with The Wild if that counts.
- Brother Bear ~ Kenai and Coda are both super annoying.
-Peter Pan ~ So many things annoy me about this film that it’s not a pleasant viewing experience. I do love Hook, Nana, Smee, Tik Tok, and Wendy. Even the parents are pretty entertaining. The bad: Tinker Bell, Peter Pan, the Native American characters, Wendy being told to work while Peter makes out with Tiger Lily, and the female jealousy between Tink, the mermaids, Tiger Lily and Wendy all irritate me. John is also annoying. I usually want Peter and Tink to die in the bomb explosion. :lol: I never root for them.
- Wreck-It Ralph ~ This one is just… I don’t even hate it, I just can’t bear to sit and re-watch it again. The parts at the beginning with Ralph wanting to be a part of the party especially make me cringe.

Tangled and Lilo & Stitch both used to be in this category—I used to hate hate hate Flynn and wished Nani would smack the heck out of Lilo—but my opinion has shifted on them the last few times I’ve watched them.

Movies I’m not very interested in, but enjoy:
- Tarzan ~ The music is great ("Son of Man" is my favorite), Tony Goldwyn as Tarzan and Glenn Close as Kala are great, Sabor is amazing. I've always loved how "dangerous" everything feels in this movie, which suits it well. I'm not too crazy about Terk (even though I like Rosie O'Donnell in real life). Tantor is much funnier. I don't know why I don't ever get the urge to watch this. I think it's because I don't really care for Clayton, Jane, or her father and their introduction is pretty early in the film. I mean, Jane is hilarious in her first scene when she's in the yellow dress. But everything else after that, she's just sort of... There.
- The Hunchback of Notre Dame ~ I always have negative feelings for this movie that never bear out when I'm watching it. I think it comes from how overrated the film was on this forum back in the day. I never really liked Esmeralda or Phoebus that much either.... The music is great and I love Tony Jay. I loved him from ReBoot before I ever saw Hunchback; Megabyte is better than Frollo for me, although Frollo is great and more complex than most animated villains. Clopin is also a fun character. I like how he skirts in the background around everything else that's going on.
- Tangled ~ While I don't dislike it anymore, I don't really love it either. :lol: I do like Rapunzel herself a great deal. Maximus is funny. Zachary Levi in real life makes me like Flynn more and more. (I just saw Shazam a couple of weeks ago. He's so adorable.)
- Home On the Range ~ I know people hate it because cows, but... I don't hate it? It's just not one of my favorites. I think Buck, the goat, Alameda Slim and the nephews are funny (the yodeling song is so WTF it's hilarious), I've always liked Jennifer Tilly, and I enjoy the design and animation of the whole thing. The "conflict" between the sleazy Roseanne and stuck-up proper lady Judi Dench characters is probably my least favorite aspect of the whole thing. Of course I do like Dench in general despite that, and I used to like Roseanne before she went nutso the past 4 years. The music is good, too, imo. I love "Will the Sun Ever Shine Again," "Little Patch of Heaven," and "Wherever the Trail May Lead."
- The Aristocats ~ I actually don't hate it. There are good parts. The dogs are funny, Thomas O'Malley and Duchess are really sweet together, and I like the human characters. The geese are SOOOO annoying, but they're the only part I hate although the kittens get on my nerves occasionally. Everything else is boring, but inoffensive. I hate that we don't have a better all-cat movie from Disney than this, as a Cat Lover. :lol:
- The Rescuers ~ I've never been too fond of Medusa; everything about the character feels like they were trying way too hard. And I've always found Penny and Bianca irritating and the swamp scenes with all the hick vermin are hard to get through they're so boring. I do really like Bernard though and Orville being sucked up by Medusa's boat is so so funny. And, despite my dislike of Bianca, my favorite scene is the beginning is with the society singing and she arrives late and all the other mice are in love with her like she's the greatest thing that graced the earth. I've always liked that trope of a female character that all the other characters just love beyond understanding, she lights up the room, everyone would die as long as she's happy, etc. Several of the princesses have that same trope (Snow White with the dwarfs and Huntsman and prince, Rapunzel with all the criminals at the Ugly Duckling and Maximus, Ariel when all the fish and sea birds come to her rescue at the end, Triton sacrifices himself, Eric, Sebastian, and Flounder all risk their lives for her--but even more in the series when she's wishing good morning to all the sea creatures and singing "In Harmony"; Cinderella has the same thing aside from her jealous stepfamily and Lucifer--even the guards are in love with her as she walks into the palace, the Grand Duke seems taken with her when she comes down the stairs at the end, the King blushing when she kisses him, and of course the mice; I'd say Belle, too, except nearly the whole town hates her :P ). It reminds me of a lot of Broadway shows, too, like Hello Dolly! when they sing for her never to go away again or the title song in Mame. I think the only reason I don't like Bianca overall despite that and even despite the vocal performance which is rather charming, is that she comes across condescending like she's mocking Bernard at points even though he's practically killing himself trying to take care of her. :lol:
- Fantasia

I never really want to put any of these on, but when I am watching them, I enjoy them.

DC Fan wrote:
Treasure Planet - Enjoy the adventure, the space setting is great and I can relate to the story. Wish there was more adventure though.
I'm glad someone else likes TP besides me, although you've ranked it higher. :up:

Quote:
The Fox and the Hound - Feels lacking, incomplete, the songs are bad, the animation is bad at moments and it´s a depressing movie just because. Have never understood it´s appeal.
While I like the film much more than you do, I agree that it's a shame the soundtrack isn't better. It's a shame because I really enjoy Pearl Bailey's voice. "Best of Friends" is sort of boring. "Lack of Education" is horrendous. :o That said, I do love the talk-sung "Goodbye May Seem Forever." It never fails to make me cry.

I like most of the songs for Oliver & Company though, although they have a cheesy feel to them like everything else about the movie.

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Listening to most often lately:
Sam Smith ~ "To Die For"
Conan Gray ~ "Crush Culture"
Halsey ~ "Nightmare"


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:46 am 
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Top 5:
1. Beauty and the Beast - I love everything about this film. The characters, the music, the animation. I also like how layered this film is, you can always learn something from rewatching it and I also feel like Disney dared to take risks with it. Like making the Beast morally ambiguous and criticizing society. I also find the stories behind the scene are as interesting as the film.

2. Sleeping Beauty - This is in my opinion Walt's Magnum Opus. Features the best animation out of any traditionally animated film, features all the things we like in fairytales and combine them elegantly alongside Tchaikovsky's music. I even like all the characters, especially Merryweather.

3. Moana - My favorite Revival film. Great characters - especially Moana, great music. I'm not a fan of CGI, but this is probably the closest CGI looked like traditional animation. And the M&C humor that really reminds you of the humor in Aladdin or Hercules.

4. Aladdin - I think if I met someone who hasn't seen a Disney film ever, I'd tell them to start with Aladdin. It features everything that's great about a Disney film. Adventure, romance, great music, great humor.

5. The Little Mermaid - It was probably my favorite film as a kid and I like how sincere and emotional it is and Ariel probably has the best song.

Honorable Mentions for Top 10: Bambi, The Lion King, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, Cinderella, Lady and the Tramp.

Dislike:
1. Chicken Little - such a spiteful film. Every character is so unlikable. Easily the worst thing to come out from WDAS. I still can't believe this is listed together in the canon alongside Snow White and etc...

2. Home on the Range - another careless and lazily made film. It was clear by watching it that Disney was done with traditional animation.

3. Robin Hood - I don't have a problem with bad animation. I have a problem with bland characters and uninspired story.

4. Wreck-It Ralph - I really don't like Ralph. I don't like that the "nicelanders" or whatever this characters were called were validated in their treatment of Ralph, and I found the script baffling because in the end that wasn't Ralph's story. It was Vanellope's, which would have been fine if she wasn't so annoying.

5. Brother Bear - I know this one has its fans but I just do not care about this not-so-good attempt at getting back to Disney Renaissance.

Enjoyable:
(Basically everything from Pocahontas to Treasure Planet minus THoND because I like it and Atlantis because I don't). If I have to choose five it'll be these, but I really don't have anything specific to say about them, they're fine I guess:
1. Mulan
2. Lilo and Stitch
3. The Emperor's New Groove
4. Hercules
5. Tarzan


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:12 am 
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1. Lion King - Half of it is nostalgia, half of it is that I just think everything works in this movie for me. The comedy, the romance, the fantasy, the adventure, the music, the characters, the design of the setting...Everything just clicks right for me.
2. Beauty and the Beast- Like Doug Walker said, it's a fairytale proud of being a fairy-tale and totally engulfs itself in it. I like that the romance is the focus here instead of a tackled-on subplot.
3. Hunchback of Notre Dame- Very ambitious, but despite the uneven tones, I think it paid off.
4. Sleeping Beauty- Like BATB, another totally engulfing fairy tale. There's a dreamlike atmosphere throughout the movie that I don't think I feel in any other Disney film.
5. Fantasia- It's so beautiful.



Hate:

1. Home on the Range- I don't care if it's overrated to hate it, but it's just so childish. Blegh.
2. Dinosaur- Ugly and boring.
3. Peter Pan. Really hasn't aged well.
4. Oliver. Just very mediocre and forgettable, despite the catchy music. Kinda funny since nowadays a lot of 80s media and 80s media inspired have become pop culture icons, yet this is forgotten more and more every day.
5. Chicken Little / Meet the Robinsons / Bolt. Just so bad or bland.


Flawed, but enjoyable / you don't care much but still like:

Almost everything else.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:51 pm 
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Favorites:
#1. The Hunchback of Notre Dame - No surprises here. Y'all know my views. This was the first movie I ever watched on the big screen, and its scope, score and majesty awed me. I trembled at the opening, raw power of Bells of Notre Dame's score. The Hellfire sequence struck fear into me in a good way that left me forever changed as a child. For all of the talk about how "uneven" the tone is of this film is, I think it's funny no one EVER mentions the fact that, narratively, the ENTIRE film is a story-within-a-story: Clopin is narrating this tale, via his puppet-show, to a group of small children. The debate about whether the Gargoyles are real, whether Notre Dame was a living entity, etc., are all moot when you take that into account. This could be Victor Hugo's story LITERALLY re-structured for children, told from the Gypsy Jester's POV. I think that's a great way of Disney having its cake and eating it, too. Furthermore, re-watching the film Post-Trump, it is AMAZING how Frollo's persecution of the Gypsies parallels with what ICE and the Trump DOJ are doing to the Mexican immigrants of the U.S. I was quite chilled when I watched it at the beginning of the year. (And the Kavanaugh hearings didn't help; a Catholic judge with severe sexual hang-ups...) I think the movie is more relevant NOW in its themes of social justice than it ever was in 1996. And I think that Disney is afraid of that. Hence the lack of merchandising, while films like Hercules and Mulan and Emperor's New Groove are getting "redemption" stories vis-à-vis Disney's marketing. But that's a whole other discussion. Hunchback is ambitious and a towering achievement of animation, music, song and character.

#2. Beauty and the Beast - Following VERY closely in Hunchback's footsteps is Beauty and the Beast. People can claim it is overrated. They can claim its Best Picture Nomination was undeserved. People can bellyache all they want. They're wrong. This is a humane, moving, beautiful film. Subtle. SUBTLE. The moment when Gaston begs for his life in the climax, and the Enchantress's leitmotif plays as understanding and sympathy change the Beast's features from hatred to compassion... THAT is what animation and cinema can do: present a marriage of image and sound that propel emotion through the stratosphere. Howard Ashman's lyrics were never better, and knowing the behind-the-scenes struggles he faced... Blinded, bedridden, STILL writing lyrics, slaving over this like Mozart did over his Requiem in "Amadeus"... It ALWAYS makes me cry when I think of it and listen to Alan Menken's mournful score. I can HEAR the weepy quality in that underscore and KNOW, in my heart, it was Alan greiving Howard. The death of the Beast cue... You CANNOT tell me Alan was not channeling his emotions over Howard in that piece of music. It has such soul. Every character in this movie is fully realized, perfect. The romance, the adventure, the music/lyrics and storytelling. Beauty and the Beast is a masterpiece. If you don't agree, you don't know what you're talking about. Period.

#3. Aladdin - I have criticisms of Aladdin. I will probably always wonder what could have been if Ashman had lived to his vision fully realized. This was his baby. And yet... And yet. When I was a child, Aladdin was my first OBSESSION. I was SO obsessed with the VHS tape I had TWO copies. I watched it on repeat. I had all the apparel, the Mattel action figures, dolls. I idolized Jafar and wanted to be him. The songs are some of the best in Disney history, even if they don't QUITE reach the (storied) heights of Beauty... And, many animators agree, this film PROBABLY features the strongest ANIMATION, line for line, of the period. In previous rankings, I put Aladdin further down in the past. Since the passing of Robin Williams, though, I've re-assessed my relationship with the film and embraced my nostalgia for it. I DO still find it weaker than Hunchback, Beauty, and, yes, even some of the films I'll put UNDER it in a second. But. What are you gonna do?

#4. The Little Mermaid - Ashman/Menken. If that weren't enough: Ursula. If that weren't enough: Poor, Unfortunate Souls. Is that enough? I think that's enough. Seriously, though, even if the animation doesn't stand up to the later Renaissance pictures, Mermaid has a lot of heart, a beautiful story and a great cast.

#5. Sleeping Beauty - I've always been of the opinion that this is the pinnacle of hand-drawn animation. It is, essentially, a moving medieval tapestry. There is no other film that LOOKS like this. It is STUNNING. The characters are secondary to the visuals, even though I LIKE the characters, especially Maleficent and the Fairies. Just LOOK at this movie. My LORD.

Honorable mention: Bambi. Probably the second best LOOKING film in the Disney canon. Man.

Ones I hate:
Hate is honestly a word that doesn't enter into a lot of my Disney discussions. I rarely HATE movies in general, honestly.

I will say that I REALLY, REALLY disliked Zootopia. I thought its message was hamfisted, the twist and villain were abhorrently realized and the horrible pop song at the end made me walk away shaking my head. It didn't feel DISNEY. If you had slapped another company's logo on it, I would not have been able to tell. That's the worst thing.

Ralph Wrecks the Internet similarly left a bad taste in my mouth. I HATED the ending, just as I HATED the ending of Toy Story 4. Both films seemed to have the same message, which, to me, felt SO UN-Disney. And with RWTI, I felt the film was padded out once they achieved the objective of getting the money needed for the game part. After that, the film just DRAGGED.

Frozen is another that I just do not care for. The story is a mess. It is all over the place. The characterizations are weak, the setting, animation and score are bland. The twist is offensively awful, the villain sucks, the songs are cloying and the lyrics are goofy. I just thought the whole thing was a bland mess. Like a bad first draft. When comparing it to the Snow Queen, the original story, I find it comes up very, very short.

The ones that I'm kinda, "Meh" about:
Lady and the Tramp - It's GORGEOUS. BEAUTIFULLY animated. It's SUCH a feast for the eyes. But it bores the fuck out of me.

The Sword in the Stone - Love the cast. I just wish something HAPPENED here! There is NO momentum in this story. Mim is hilarious. The Wizard's Duel is an amazing sequence. Archimedes is great. You have all these disparate elements that never gel into anything WOW.

The AristoCats - Loved this one when I was younger. Now? Eh...

Pocahontas - Beautiful animation. Terrific songs. Clunky dialogue. Horrible comic-relief (that damned Raccoon deserves all the hate Victor, Hugo and Laverne get x 10!), goofy "spiritualism," (a talking TREE? C'MON). A wooden romance. Historical inaccuracies. Bland villain. Wow. Do I like anything about it? Lol. I do! But it's very much one of those, gotta be in the mood for it ones for me.

All the Winnie the Pooh stuff - Just not for me.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:08 pm 
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It's interesting how so many of the same films keep popping up in almost everybody's top five. Almost everyone's list features some combination of Sleeping Beauty, The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, or The Hunchback of Notre Dame. My own top five is pretty much that although at the last minute, I replaced BATB with Alice in Wonderland, something I'm still not entirely sure about.

The least favorite films are a lot more varied interestingly enough. There's a few that get multiple mentions but none are as consistently present as the aforementioned five films which almost everybody seems to love here.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:46 pm 
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In my case I´m surprised to have placed Sleeping Beauty on my top 5 favorites.

I remember that I overlooked it when on VHS in the video clubs because the art in the cover looked so different that didn´t think it was Disney. The first time I watched it was when I bought it on DVD and wasn´t impressed.

In terms of story, and overall quality/enjoyment, there are betters that fill that void for me: Beauty and the Beast (in my opinion, and even though Aladdin is my favorite I find it to be perfect), Lion King and others. But it´s true that with time and many viewings you get to appreciate it for the work of art it is despite it´s flaws. It´s the perfect fairy tale animated movie.

I´m starting to believe that it´s a movie that little kids will enjoy and adults that appreciate/love animation. But most people won´t like because the faults really hurt the movie.

...it´s not like Hunchback where the Gargoyles is just one thing to overlook but in SB the lack of character development with Aurora and Phillip, the classical music soundtrack, the scene with the kings (just one but enough to make you realize they could have used it on the meant to be couple), the fairies (as fun as they are also take from Aurora) and the slow pace and lack of strong content is too much. Most people won´t handle it.

BTW, the lack of movement in the background characters...Did that happen because animators felt would be too hard to do/distract from the main characters or it was a choice to go along with tapestry concept? I don´t mind it. Just wondering.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:53 am 
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Ok, now when I did this I ended up writing my personal connections to my favorite films. If DC Fan want me to keep it to just why I love the films, I will change my post to do that. I just started writing it this way and didn’t want to cut it all out because, well, it’s my memories of my favorite films. Ok, here I go!

1. Cinderella - when I was three, I broke my arm falling from a jungle gym, and my parents let me pick out a movie, and I picked this one because of the awesome "Classics" VHS cover with Cinderella in her torn dress and the transforming pumpkin. I love spirals, maybe that had something to do with it since the pumpkin vines formed spirals. Anyway, I fell in love with the movie instantly and forever. I later got the Classics VHS for Christmas, and watched the film too many times to remember and replayed and paused Cinderella's transformation as well as the others too many times to count throughout my childhood. I drew the transformation moments and many other scenes over and over, too. I even made a little book all about just the transformations and drew lots of pictures for it looking at the film frames paused on my TV. My book was like Disney Dust porn, lol. When I was little I knew the film was my favorite, but I said my favorite movie was The Wizard of Oz so people wouldn't think badly of a boy liking the movie. But I still got called "Cinderella Boy" so I guess I couldn't hide it, Lol. These days, I reluctantly tell people it's my favorite, but at least I admit it now. I think it's the perfect story. A girl is forced (yes, forced!) to be a slave in her own home, but then magic and love, as reward for her good deeds and faith, make her a princess. From the very realistic and beautiful animation of Cinderella to the equally realistic but scary animation of the stepmother, to the designs of Cinderella's elegant, regal, poofy, pleated silver dress and the sleek and curly pumpkin coach, to the tallest and most epic Disney castle in history and it’s gigantic, dreamy pink and silver ballroom, to the beautiful and intricate animation, including a trippy, dreamy, gorgeous sequence of Cinderella falling in love, to the warm, tender, soothing, loving voice-acting of Ilene Woods and the chilling, biting voice-acting of Eleanor Audley, and from the deeply sad moment of Cinderella’s dream being ripped to shreds to the elation of her happy ending, it’s a masterpiece. It’s not Disney’s very best, objectively, but to me, it will be always be Disney’s very best.

2. Sleeping Beauty – When I was very young, my aunt rented this for me and my cousin Orianna from the library all the time. We had pink and blue fights (I was blue!). We loved it. Then one day we went to the library and it wasn’t there anymore. I was very sad because the last time I saw it I was so young couldn’t remember all the scenes all that well. A few years later, one time my teacher took a vote from the class about which movie he would bring in for us to watch, and one choice was Sleeping Beauty, so I voted for it. But Lady and the Tramp won and I was so mad. But I was so stupid, I should have just asked if I could borrow Sleeping Beauty from him, oy! When it finally came to home video again, I drew the advertised cover over and over in the summer until it finally came out in the fall. To make my seeing it with older, more remembering eyes more perfect, I invited my aunt and cousins to my house to see it with me. When the fairies bestowed their gifts, my cousin Peter asked me to pass him a drink, and I tried to do it at the same time I watched the film, so I didn’t miss anything, and I spilled it all over the table, lol. You wanna talk about Disney Dust porn, this is that Disney film. There is fairy dust throughout the whole film. There is a whole plot point of the fairies’ hiding spot getting discovered because of a fairy dust fight! Even the ending is a fairy dust fight, lol! This film is Medieval and floral and magical beauty all over. The backgrounds are so detailed, the forest scenes, which bored me as a kid, now take my breath away with how striking and full of detail they are. The character designs are even beautiful. Gotta love them fairy pleats and scarved pointy hats, and Maleficent’s fiery-dagged cloak and cool knobbed staff, and Aurora’s spiral curls and off-the shoulder pointy and, yes, pleated dress. And the score is so beautiful, too. This film is a masterpiece. Not so much for emotion, but for beauty, and great fairy characters.

3. The Little Mermaid – Me and my cousins would watch this film all the time as kids! And my cousins owned it so we could watch it whenever we wanted! Of course, I bought it when it came out on home video for the second time. What a fun, exciting film! And magical! From the beautiful, mysterious under sea kingdom of merpeople to Ursula and all her cool magic, I have always loved this film! I love it mostly for the designs of the merpeople with their hip fins being a cool way to connect their tails to their human halves, and Ursula’s design, the design of her lair (called the Leviathan, I read in a few places, I wonder why?), her magic, and Vanessa’s design. I even like Ariel’s dresses, and her hair with the cool bangs! But Ursula is and always will be my favorite character. There is nothing wrong with Ariel, it’s just that I like princessy types, and Ariel actually is not very much like a princess, which really is a good thing for her because her headstrong, fiery, wide-eyed, excited personality is what I think makes her objectively Disney’s best Disney Princess and probably best female Disney character. But no, it’s Ursula I really love, with her larger than life personality and magical powers of course! Ursula has an amazing design with a sweetheart neckline that leads into black and purple tentacles, and a wavy white and grey hairdo. And you gotta love a magical gold spiral nautilus shell necklace! The music is some of Disney’s best and all that, and the animation is awesome, but the reasons I stated are why I love it so much. This is one of Disney’s masterpieces.

4. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs – The first time I saw this was probably through books and advertisements before it got re-released in 1993, and I saw commercials on TV for it. I was so taken with the Queen transforming into the Witch, however briefly seen in the commercial, with her long hair blowing around her. I asked my mom to draw that scene. I was disappointed she didn’t draw it very well. Kids can be cruel, lol. I feel bad. But she understood I was just a kid. Anyway, I saw the film, and I liked it a good deal. When I got it on home video, I began to like it even more. I had zero interest in Snow White, though I wonder if it’s just because she didn’t look like a blonde beautiful princess to me, because she certainly was kind and caring and I love a kind and innocent character. I had absolutely zero interest in the dwarfs. It was all about the Queen for me. And yes, from an official Disney comic I bought where she’s called Grimhilde, I will think that’s her real name, too. She has a great look, but it’s her magical powers I loved. Her transformation in particular has always been my favorite part of the movie, and it’s certainly one of the best parts. I watched that frame-by-frame and drew it a lot. Her Witch design is an awesome design, not mention it’s pretty scary when her eyes widen. I always thought her magic mirror was an awesome design, too. Today, I think this is Disney’s second best masterpiece. There’s the ominous opening of the Queen’s castle to her mirror spell, aided by its mysterious music, and actually all of the music, from score to songs is rather phenomenal, especially for a first feature film, and that includes my favorite, “I’m Wishing/One Song” which is really sweet and romantic, and I really love how Snow White wishes as one of her actions to change her fate, and it comes true in the end. There’s the chilling exchange between the Queen and the Huntsman, with so much drama, there’s the dark flight through the forest, there’s the cutesy animals, there’s the deep bond between Snow White and the dwarfs which really is what the film is about, and then there’s the deep sadness of Snow White’s death, and then the absolutely cathartic and heavenly happy ending. It truly is Walt Disney’s finest masterpiece. You know, other than Cinderella. Lol.

5. Beauty and the Beast – I first saw this…I can’t even remember when. I just remember seeing the toys and books for it, and I did like the book I had of it. No joke, one time some kid had a birthday party and I also wrapped the large Beauty and the Beast book as a present for myself to open. I was like Cartman from South Park, lol. Anyway, I do remember watching it one day when I was home sick from school, and I really loved how dark and epic it felt. Also, one time I was waiting while my mom talked to a doctor, and I had to do something while I was bored, and the doctor had Beauty and the Beast on CD that I could listen to, and I remember just being struck by how great the music was and told a great story, when usually I didn’t care about music at that age (yes, I was a weird kid). But when watching the film, I loved the magic, but wanted to see more of it. I wanted to see the Prince’s transformation come to life, not as a stained-glass window. And I didn’t like that the magic was only really seen at the end. But it did make me like the Beast. Not like I would have said he was one of my favorite characters ever when not watching the film, but while watching the film, I was interested in him. I was such a dumb kid, though, I thought the handsome man in the painting, and who he turned into at the end, was like a whole other person. I don’t think I’m explaining it well, and I can barely remember what exactly I thought of the Beast and the Prince, but I just know when Belle says, “It is you!” I thought she just wanted the hot guy from the painting! Lol. But this film made me want to meet and fall in love with a truly great, deep guy, because the Beast/Prince was a truly great, deep, guy, and explore an epic, enchanted castle. Now a days, I wonder why I didn’t like Belle more, since she is such a princessy princess and even has what I think is the second best gown in Disney history, and she’s kind of the perfect Disney Princess for being a smart nerd and a sophisticated princess together, but what can I say, Ariel’s the best and Cinderella’s my favorite and Belle never really touched me. But I see this as Disney’s greatest, deepest love story and Disney’s best film, truly a masterpiece. The animation is amazing, especially that ballroom shot with the chandelier and then Belle’s dress swinging by, and the Beast’s moving transformation. It’s a tour de force.

The rest of my favorites for a top ten are Bambi, Pinocchio, Tangled, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, and Aladdin.

Ones I don’t like? Hm…

Out of all the Disney films I have seen, there has not been one I greatly dislike. But I have not seen Disney’s worst films, which most people would say are Chicken Little, Brother Bear, Home on the Range, and Meet the Robinsons. Is it ok that I just don’t list any I dislike, because there are none? Or maybe I just forgot which films I don’t like, because I don’t think I liked any of the package features that much, but I barely remember them. Oh, there is one film I dislike:

Song of the South – I’m sorry, but this film kind of rubbed me the wrong way. I didn’t like the little boy, so angry and hating his collar so much, and I didn’t like the little girl being so upset because she fell in the mud and that’s all I can remember about her character, and the animated characters sounded like black stereotypes. I just didn’t like the film.

Oh, and how about these:

Wreck-It-Ralph, I’m sorry, but I find it un-Disney to make a film about a video game and then include product placement up the wall. I hate Ralph. I hate Vanellope. I just liked the humor and the twists. I also liked Fix-It Felix and Sergeant Calhoun.

Ralph Breaks the Internet – Now I REALLY didn’t care for this story and hated the characters even more except Fix-It Felix, and Calhoun. Even the princesses were rendered unlikeable. Thanks Disney.

Frozen II – I said it was good when I first saw it. When I saw it again I just hated it. A whole lot of nothing that doesn’t satisfy those wanting more of what we got from the first film. (By the way, I might have put Bolt here instead if I could just remember how it was and if I liked it or not).

I have to pick one more? Ok, well…

Pocahontas – I just remember thinking it was boring. And I feel like it was kind of simple, like not enough happened. I know people could probably write pages and pages explaining why I’m wrong, but it just felt that way to me. I think John Smith is a dick. Also, it’s Disney making fantasy out of history. Please no, Disney.

Surprisingly Enjoyable? I dunno, I don’t watch that many Disney films over and over that aren’t my favorites, I guess here I’ll try:

The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad – Not big on Mr. Toad, but the short’s fun. Gotta love Ichabod and the scary Halloween stuff.

Fantasia – This is such a great film, it’s always nice to watch that amazing animation with that awesome music. Night on Bald Mountain is the best!

Tangled – I know I said this is in my top ten, and it is, but it’s mostly there because they did Rapunzel in some good ways. But I find myself really loving the film when I watch it.

The Rescuers – This is one of those films I’m not big on, but it really has some great stuff. It’s dark and somber, which is cool.

The Fox and the Hound – This movie made me cry the first time I saw it as an adult, when the Widow Tweed has to leave Tod! Oh, so sad! This is a great movie.

Farerb, what did you mean when you said they made the Beast “morally ambiguous”?

JeanGreyForever, you’re so right about how so many of our favorites are the same! Must be a testament to how good they are!

JeanGreyForever, why is Ariel your idol? I, too, think The Hunchback of Notre Dame is actually the pinnacle of Disney animation, after Sleeping Beauty. I think it is their most ambitious film, too, and it is the story, characters, music that are all combined with that epic, amazing animation that really make it a masterpiece, even if I think Beauty and the Beast, Snow White, and Pinocchio come before it in masterpiece rankings. I guess it's fourth to me! And yes, Alice in Wonderland is the perfect adaption of the story! I didn't even notice it uses the original text, but that's another perfect thing about it. And Alice actually is a great character in my opinion! I like all the music in Robin Hood, and you know, I actually think Robin is cute. No, I am not a furry lol. I like his character and his outfit, even if he's not like an outstanding character in the Disney pantheon. I dunno, I like the film. It kinda sucks, so maybe it's a guilty pleasure. And it's not a favorite, just one I find kind of enjoyable. What's the alternate opening for The Sword in the Stone? I like Meg, and Hercules is so freaking cute to me, and I like "Go the Distance" a lot actually, as well some of the other songs. Has been a long time since I've seen the film, though. I love Frozen a lot, I just think Hans' plan was stupid and way too easily fooled the kingdom, and I hate the trolls.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:21 pm 
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I've read your account about how you were introduced to Cinderella before but I enjoyed reading it again and how an unfortunate incident spawned the great love of your life! That's pretty sad that you were never able to fully disclose your love for this film, even to this day, and it's a real shame that such a gender bias exists. I'm really glad Disney Store has become a bit more progressive and gotten read of labels like boys' costumes or girls' costumes and I hope more toy stores get rid of the "boy section" or the "girl section." Also I love how you mentioned that the ballroom in the final is both pink and silver since pink is a color I associate with this film a lot but most people seem to forget about that and just think of blue. Cinderella may not be Disney's very best film, but I think it still is one of their very best (meaning it may not be #1, but it's definitely up there in the top ten or so).

Wow, I never realized that Sleeping Beauty, a film you love so much, was also one that you nearly forgot because you weren't able to access it from the library. Although I owned a lot of Disney VHS, I also used to rent a lot from the public library and one of the reasons I used to watch The Black Cauldron so much is because it was always readily available. Funny because in my class we also voted to watch a Disney movie and The Jungle Book won out over Sleeping Beauty. I'm glad you finally got to see it afterwards though when it was back even if you did spill your drink. I totally sympathize with not wanting to miss a scene from the movie so not taking my eyes off the screen.

For TLM, the Leviathan name comes from the fact that in an old comic for TLM, that is a huge beast that is killed and Ursula makes a deal to take its skeleton which becomes her lair. It's these comics and you'll find it in the first story arc "Serpent Teen." You should be able to find it online or that Daring to Dream fansite for TLM I've linked to before.
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That's interesting though that you prefer Ursula over Ariel. Ariel may not be as classically princessy as her predecessors but I didn't think you were the type to prefer Ursula. For me Ariel is a fairy tale princess in all the ways that count like her looks, her hopes and dreams and wanting more, and of course, being madly in love at first sight and fighting endlessly for her love to come true.

That's a pretty funny story about Snow White and what you said about your mother's drawing. I always loved that scene myself with her long hair finally visible. Like you I would have preferred Snow White with longer hair, although not blonde because black hair and white skin are such an important part of the lore behind the story. She didn't appeal too much to me as a character as a result. The dwarfs are okay but I'll admit that out of the classic princess sidekicks, they are my least favorite. I think in this case, Disney improved on their sidekicks since I preferred Cinderella's mice over the dwarfs and I preferred Sleeping Beauty's fairies over both the mice and the dwarfs. The Queen was my main appeal for this film too and her scenes were the ones that captivated all my attention so it's neat that you and I both share that in common. For me, the I'm Wishing scene is the perfect way not only to start off the movie but also to start off all the Disney movies ever knowing that every other film owes its existence to the legacy of this film.

That's a funny anecdote about the BATB book. I used to make it a policy to never give someone else a present that I wanted. That's also interesting that you were partially introduced to the film from the music before the actual film itself unless that doctor incident happened after you were home sick from school so you had already seen the movie by then. Do you still wish we had seen the Beast's transformation onscreen now or have you grown to accept the stained glass windows instead? That's pretty interesting though that you had no idea that the Beast and the prince were the same person and I wonder how many other children thought the same. It seems pretty obvious but I can see why someone would make that mistake. For Lilo & Stitch, I always used to think Nani was Lilo's mother which is ironic because the filmmakers were afraid of that happening so they constantly referenced Nani being her older sister and it still didn't connect with me. Belle has a lot in common with me in terms of likes and personality but for some reason she was never my favorite either. Even though I'm a bookworm like her, it used to astonish me that some people made her their favorite just because she likes to read. That didn't seem like a substantial enough reason for her to be my favorite.

For Song of the South, the little boy was angry because his father had left and he wanted to go with him and didn't understand why he left (frankly I still don't understand the purpose of the father leaving. The girl was upset because she had a pretty dress for the first time in her life (made from her mother's wedding dress) and her brothers ruined it so it reminded me of Cinderella's torn dress scene and I really felt for her.

As you know I like the first WIR, but I find everything about WIR2 to be irredeemable lol. Especially what Lasseter did to the princesses.

Maybe if you watch Frozen II again, you'll reconcile your feelings towards it.

Some of the reasons that Ariel was my idol is what I listed above but also for superficial things like her long red hair (as my username may inform you, I clearly tend to idolize fictional red-headed women), being a mermaid and living underwater in a golden palace, etc. Having a TV show for her that I could regularly watch also probably helped.

I agree with you about everything you said about Hunchback and placing it alongside Sleeping Beauty and behind BATB, Snow White, and Pinocchio. Yes, a lot of the songs and dialogue from Alice in Wonderland come straight from the book hence why this film has the most Disney songs and like 50 deleted songs as well. I like Alice as a character too even if some people call her bland. I'm still a bit iffy on whether or not I should have used my #5 for Alice in Wonderland or Beauty and the Beast. I initially put BATB down but then felt it was almost cliche for 4/5 films to be from the 90s and only one from the 50s so I changed it. I can see why some people like Robin but I personally find him very bland. For The Sword in the Stone, the initial opening is on Disney+ and on either the DVD or the Blu-Ray as well as on YouTube. Basically it's a bit closer to the legends because Arthur is actually King Uther's son. When the King dies, Madam Mim (designed to be more like Maleficent or the Queen as a dark, brooding villainess who is gorgeous and not comical, short, and ugly) is after Arthur so Merlin hides him away for his own good. Madam Mim had a villainous sidekick, the Black Knight. From Hercules, I like Meg too and Herc is decent looking although not my taste. I prefer the more princely characters. I forgot about the trolls in Frozen, hate them too.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:51 pm 
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farerb wrote:
5. The Little Mermaid - It was probably my favorite film as a kid and I like how sincere and emotional it is and Ariel probably has the best song.

Dislike:
1. Chicken Little - such a spiteful film. Every character is so unlikable. Easily the worst thing to come out from WDAS. I still can't believe this is listed together in the canon alongside Snow White and etc...
Nice descriptions. I do think of both of them that way. TLM's heart is on its sleeve and CL is some soulless, hateful, disposable garbage (same as many of Dreamworks' early films).

thedisneyspirit wrote:
4. Oliver. Just very mediocre and forgettable, despite the catchy music. Kinda funny since nowadays a lot of 80s media and 80s media inspired have become pop culture icons, yet this is forgotten more and more every day.
I never really thought about it before, but that's true. O&C is just.... A very average movie. Harmless and unmemorable.

Quote:
Flawed, but enjoyable / you don't care much but still like:

Almost everything else.
:lol:

ProfessorRatigan wrote:
Favorites:
#1. The Hunchback of Notre Dame - No surprises here. Y'all know my views. This was the first movie I ever watched on the big screen, and its scope, score and majesty awed me. I trembled at the opening, raw power of Bells of Notre Dame's score. The Hellfire sequence struck fear into me in a good way that left me forever changed as a child. For all of the talk about how "uneven" the tone is of this film is, I think it's funny no one EVER mentions the fact that, narratively, the ENTIRE film is a story-within-a-story: Clopin is narrating this tale, via his puppet-show, to a group of small children. The debate about whether the Gargoyles are real, whether Notre Dame was a living entity, etc., are all moot when you take that into account. This could be Victor Hugo's story LITERALLY re-structured for children, told from the Gypsy Jester's POV. I think that's a great way of Disney having its cake and eating it, too. Furthermore, re-watching the film Post-Trump, it is AMAZING how Frollo's persecution of the Gypsies parallels with what ICE and the Trump DOJ are doing to the Mexican immigrants of the U.S. I was quite chilled when I watched it at the beginning of the year. (And the Kavanaugh hearings didn't help; a Catholic judge with severe sexual hang-ups...) I think the movie is more relevant NOW in its themes of social justice than it ever was in 1996. And I think that Disney is afraid of that. Hence the lack of merchandising, while films like Hercules and Mulan and Emperor's New Groove are getting "redemption" stories vis-à-vis Disney's marketing. But that's a whole other discussion. Hunchback is ambitious and a towering achievement of animation, music, song and character.
I think I wrote something similar in the Hunchback thread in 2017-8, that I thought the film was actually more relevant today than it ever was in the U.S. since I've been alive anyway. It's funny, I used to think the film was very heavy-handed and almost cheesy growing up, particularly the scene where Quasimodo is tied down and has fruit thrown at him. Who knew people really can devolve into acting that way en masse without exaggeration until now. "God Help the Outcasts" is a sentiment I think many people have on their minds these past three years.

Anyway, I remember seeing this film as a child in theaters (around 6 or 7 years old?). Most of it flew over my head. Beauty and the Beast is the same way for me; you can't really appreciate the romance / story as a child, imo. I don't remember being frightened during the "Hellfire" scene, just very confused...

Quote:
The moment when Gaston begs for his life in the climax, and the Enchantress's leitmotif plays as understanding and sympathy change the Beast's features from hatred to compassion...

Wow, I have never noticed that... I mean, of course, I always knew Beast shows mercy on Gaston, but I always thought it was because of Belle's influence (wanting to please her, be better for her), rather than maybe an internal recognition of the mercy he didn't show the old woman who would've died from the cold / Enchantress (or Maurice, for that matter).

Quote:
THAT is what animation and cinema can do: present a marriage of image and sound that propel emotion through the stratosphere. Howard Ashman's lyrics were never better, and knowing the behind-the-scenes struggles he faced... Blinded, bedridden, STILL writing lyrics, slaving over this like Mozart did over his Requiem in "Amadeus"... It ALWAYS makes me cry when I think of it and listen to Alan Menken's mournful score. I can HEAR the weepy quality in that underscore and KNOW, in my heart, it was Alan greiving Howard. The death of the Beast cue... You CANNOT tell me Alan was not channeling his emotions over Howard in that piece of music. It has such soul.
:( :( :(

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I will say that I REALLY, REALLY disliked Zootopia. I thought its message was hamfisted, the twist and villain were abhorrently realized and the horrible pop song at the end made me walk away shaking my head. It didn't feel DISNEY. If you had slapped another company's logo on it, I would not have been able to tell. That's the worst thing.
Yes, I still have a hard time buying the scene where Nick is angry over what Judy said to the reporters, and then she reaches for her spray. And the pop song is awful awful awful. Even worse since the character's compared to Adele, and Adele would never. Still, there are things I enjoy about the movie. I think Judy and Nick are great characters with great chemistry. I liked the twist (even if I could see it coming) of a sheep being the villain, wolf in sheep's clothing and all that, even if the reveal itself... Nearly all PIXAR villains are awful in their delivery even when their motivations / schemes are well-done. The dialogue is just not strong at all. It's always very Scooby Doo with PIXAR's surprise villains (and the PIXAR infestation of the WDAS films, too)--"And I would've got away with it, too, if not for you meddling kids!!"

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Pocahontas - Beautiful animation. Terrific songs. Clunky dialogue. Horrible comic-relief (that damned Raccoon deserves all the hate Victor, Hugo and Laverne get x 10!), goofy "spiritualism," (a talking TREE? C'MON). A wooden romance. Historical inaccuracies. Bland villain. Wow. Do I like anything about it? Lol. I do! But it's very much one of those, gotta be in the mood for it ones for me.
I agree, the talking tree is really a dumb decision even if I can't help but like Grandmother Willow at the same time. Part of it is I love willow trees. :lol: I think Ratcliffe is a good villain... for a completely different movie. But mostly I quoted this to say I agree 100% about the comic relief. Meeko, Flit, and Percy are SO SO annoying. The "If I Never Knew You" scene that's--rightfully--added back into the film is nearly ruined for me because of the maudlin close-up shots of Percy and Meeko during as if we're supposed to compare their enmity for one another to the settlers v. the Native Americans, if they could only get along, because all the fighting between the two groups is just petty squabbling not the beginnings of a genocide... :headshake: :lol: What the world.

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...it´s not like Hunchback where the Gargoyles is just one thing to overlook but in SB the lack of character development with Aurora and Phillip, the classical music soundtrack, the scene with the kings (just one but enough to make you realize they could have used it on the meant to be couple), the fairies (as fun as they are also take from Aurora) and the slow pace and lack of strong content is too much. Most people won´t handle it.
Yes, I think the film is beautiful. I actually like the three fairies and everyone loves Maleficent, but... Overall, the thing is really boring. Sort of like Fantasia. I put it on if I want to go to sleep. Otherwise I skip to the scenes I like and call it a day.

As for Maleficent, I overall think she's a great villain, but I hate one part of the film she's in. It's just after she's finished striking her minions with lightning. I hate when they have her say, "A disgrace to the forces of evil~!" melodramatically. Something about that line makes everything in the film feel so absurd. Like this is all a Dungeons and Dragons game the fairies are playing or something, lol. It reminds me of some stupid line given to Ursula in The Little Mermaid Broadway show when she gets the trident: "And now dark shall reign forever over ocean, sea, and shoal." Of course the characters are evil, but to diminish their motives to serving Satan or whatever is, for me.... Meh. I do think of Maleficent as literally serving the Devil to a large degree whereas with Ursula I can sort of believe that, too (since she uses pretty dark witchcraft, like when she throws a tongue into the cauldron), but her motives are still ultimately about attaining the throne for herself not "the darkness" lol. While doing bad is part of her M.O., Maleficent still curses Aurora out of personal, petty anger and the disgrace of being snubbed by these puny mortals, not simply to start a contest of good v. evil. Anyway, I think it's a poor line is all. *shrug*

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:59 am 
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Disney Duster:

It shouldn´t matter that Cinderella is your favorite movie.

-As you can see, The Little Mermaid is my second. So, if Aladdin didn´t exist it would have been my favorite. And, more so than the story, I appreciate the underwater setting (more so for a hand drawn animated movie of the 80s) and all I mentioned.

-Cinderella was Disney´s favorite movie. The same goes with the transformation scene.

-Lin Manuel Miranda´s favorite movie is The Little Mermaid (a Princess movie).

-I have a friend that´s as masculine as they get. His favorite genre is action and adores all those 90´s action movie stars...yet his favorite Disney movie is Tangled. And he doesn´t shy for saying it.

-Harry Potter has that Cinderella theme added to the story and look how many fans are there of these movies/universe.

-We all love (or at least like) the Cinderella´s story because we either feel are that character or knowing a person/character like that were his/her life changes for the better has a universal appeal.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:32 pm 
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Aww, thanks JeanGreyForever and DC Fan.

Just so all you guys in this thread know, I read everything you said and was very glad to hear all your views and loves and dislikes!

JeanGreyForever, thanks for what you said about my childhood tragedy turning into the love of my life, so right. Yes, the world is gender biased. I like the idea that there are certain things most males or most females like, but the world needs to be ok with everyone liking anything they want. Yes, they need to remove the girl and boy labels. The ballroom actually is mostly pink, purple, and blue, but there's the silver in some insignias on the curtains and a tapestry. I'm glad you think Cinderella is in the top of Disney films.

Yep, all I had to really know what Sleeping Beauty was like for a while was books! I was so glad to finally have it home video as an older kid with a better memory! The Black Cauldron, yeah, it makes sense that would often be available. The Jungle Book? Whatever. I hate to say it, but boys are more ok with The Jungle Book and Lady and the Tramp than Sleeping Beauty so that's probably why they won. Yeah, I should have just realized I could watch the fairy gift scene later since I owned it, but what can I say it was like my first time seeing it!

I read Serpent Teen in a comic book collection I own of many, many Disney Princess comics. I still didn't remember the creature being called the Leviathan. Is that it's name in the comic? When I looked it up, the Leviathan is a Biblical creature. Yes, I like Ariel, but Ursula is my favorite character because of her design and magic powers. Ariel is the first princess to fight endlessly for her true love. I never realized how much like a fairy tale princess she really is. I was thinking of adding another personal connection to The Little Mermaid. My uncle was so glad me and my cousins loved the film and watched it all the time because he loved it, too! And later in my life he and my cousins loved to quote, "Daddy I love him!" "No!" because it was so dramatic! Lol That really is a perfectly dramatic moment.

Oh, Snow White definitely must keep her black hair and white skin because that is how the story goes! I just love blondes. I prefer the fairies as sidekicks, too. I would however say Walt always wanted the dwarfs to be equal stars to Snow White. Oh, I love what you said about the "I'm Wishing" scene!

Oh, I see I should have worded my BatB connecton better, because I did watch the film before I heard the music on CD. I was just saying that time I listened to the music without the fim, which was a rare thing for me to do, was a great experience. As an adult, no, I totally think the stained-glass window treatment of the story was the perfect way to go! Oh, wow, I didn't know that about Lilo and Nani, it's funny it still didn't work on you! Yes, you are a lot like Belle.

Oh, hm, so you told me a lot deeper reasons why the boy and girl acted the way they did in Song of the South. Maybe I would like the film more seeing it again and being more aware. But obviously I will never think the film is that great because I had seen it as an adult and was not impressed. I was reminded of Cinderella's ruined dress from the little girl, too, and I even thought that was how Disney got the idea, but in Cinderella it's a way more dramatic scene.

Yes, we just don't feel the same on Wreck-It-Ralph but both hate the sequel!

I have seen Frozen II twice, and the second time is actually when I started to dislike it.

Oh, yes, you love red-heads like I love blondes, and you love mermaids and the sea, too, that's right!

I get why Robin can be seen as bland, even though I still like him. I watched the alternate opening of The Sword in the Stone online, and is it supposed to end when Merlin opens the door to his home? Anyway, I did like it, but I can't remember how the original film goes enough to know what I prefer. But I think I would have preferred the more traditional The Sword in the Stone. I read the rest of everything you have said, and loved it!

DC Fan, thank you so much for what you said, you are absolutely right! People feel like they are a Cinderella or want to succeed greatly from our lowly lives, or we like characters that do. The only thing I am not sure of is if Cinderella was Walt Disney's favorite movie. It was a big favorite of his and the scene in it is his most favorite scene, but I heard Bambi was his most favorite movie.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:03 am 
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Thank you for clarifying about the ballroom. Without looking at images or videos, I remember it being silvery blue with a lot of pink or red curtains and carpets. And the staircase was pink.

You have a good point about The Jungle Book but classrooms tend to be equally divided between boys and girls so it's a shame that boys still prevail somehow. I feel like the same goes for the real world and how even though women outnumber men, it is still primarily men's tastes that win out. So nobody ever worries that females won't go to a male-oriented movie but if there's a female movie, executives freak out about the lack of male appeal. The Little Mermaid in '89 was an example after Oliver & Company and of course Tangled is infamous for this.

I can't remember the name of the creature in the comics. I want to say yes that was the name, but if it wasn't, it must have been what Ursula's Lair was called somewhere else then. That's neat that your uncle loved TLM too! He must be really cool. And that dramatic moment you mentioned when Ariel accidentally proclaims her love for Eric to her father is one of my favorites.

The dwarfs seem to have as much screentime as Snow White if not even more. Audiences certainly fell for them so they clearly worked their magic.

Ah, thanks for clarifying. I was just a little confused there about your first experience with BATB. I'm glad you've come around to BATB opening with stained glass windows. Luckily as a child, you could have used BATB: The Enchanted Christmas as an alternative since that film does show you the scene where the prince is cursed. Looks awful lol with that terrible animation and I hate the Enchantress' new design.

Yeah if you've seen Song of the South as an adult already and were still not impressed, you probably won't care too much for it anytime soon. I liked it well enough though, animation and live-action. The live-action bits get a lot of flack for not being as good as the animation, but I thought they were about equal. I agree that Cinderella does a more dramatic job with the dress scene.

So I wonder if you saw Frozen II a third time, would you like it better or like it even less...

I think I liked mermaids even more than princesses when I was younger which is saying something.

Yes, The Sword in the Stone alternate opening is longer outside of the brief clip posted on YouTube. The full video is 4 minutes long on Disney+, including introduction. I watched the film recently on Disney+ and am still not a fan. Like you, I'd prefer a more traditional take on the legend like what we briefly saw in this alternate opening than the final film.

As for Walt's favorite film, I've also heard So Dear to My Heart was his favorite film but that may exclude animation and just be his fav out of live-action films. Mary Poppins I've heard a few times as well but that may be made up.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:16 am 
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The ballroom floor is blue, the walls are purple, pink, orange (kind of a coral orange), and yellow, the curtains and carpets and stairs are pink. I guess the only color the ballroom isn't is green!

Yes, it's so weird that "masculine" things can be loved by all, but "feminine" things can only be loved by girls. And yes, they were worried about it with The Little Mermaid, but it was Tangled when they went coward and changed the title. As if they really needed the money.

The creature in the comic is called The Serpentine. I guess Disney sometimes called Ursula's lair The Leviathan because before that comic, they considered the idea the animal her lair was made from was that Biblical creature. My uncle is cool in some ways, but actually he cheated on and divorced my aunt, so he is not exactly a good person. I know you didn't know that though, it's ok. But the moment Ariel says she loves Eric is one of the great scenes of cinema, and I still think of what my uncle and my cousins, who still see him and love him, did with that scene, fondly.

Yup, they made the dwarfs work on the audience all right.

Oh, yeah, the stained-glass windows are a much more clever, cool, and classy way to open the film. I saw the Enchanted Christmas as a kid and was glad to see the Beast transform, but I was so disappointed in the Enchantress's new drab look. I much prefer her stained-glass window look which is truly "a beautiful enchantress".

I'm glad you liked Song of the South even though I didn't.

Frozen II feels like such a dismal film to me, I don't really want to see it a third time, and that makes me think they really should have done something better.

Yes, if you liked mermaids more than princesses that is saying something!

My friend Tim has Disney+, so maybe I can see the whole Sword in the Stone alternate opening when he visits.

I never heard So Dear to My Heart was his favorite! I guess out of live-action films, maybe. Mary Poppins, too. I wish I knew what his favorite was for sure, though I until I do know, I will think it is either Cinderella or Bambi.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:27 am 
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Thank you for the specifics about the ballroom. Yeah, I don't think green would work very well.

It makes me wonder if Tangled would be as big a success as it was with the original title.

Thank you for confirming about Ursula's lair. Oh, I'm sorry to hear about your uncle. I take back what I said, he sounds like a horrible man. I'm glad to hear that your family loves that scene where Ariel proclaims her love.

I love the Enchantress' design in the stained glass windows. Even the live-action version looked quite horrid and boring to me.

Yes, you might prefer the alternate opening for Sword in the Stone if you see it at your friend's.

I know his regard for Snow White increased towards the end of his life, because for a while he hated it because he felt that people kept comparing all of his films to SW and there were so many things he would do differently afterwards. But in those last years or so, he said he made peace with SW and was able to regard it in a positive way again.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:31 am 
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I agree, green in a ballroom for Cinderella doesn't work. Though there was teal used for the palace top and ballroom curtains in the live-action film and that wasn't too jarring. I would have preferred blue, though, especially purplish blue.

Hm, yes I also wonder if Tangled would have been as big as it was if it was originally released with the title Rapunzel.

Yeah, my uncle's a jerk, but his kids, my cousins, still love him, and I remember the Ariel quoting fondly.

The live-action Enchantress design didn't bother me because I thought it fit what she was trying to do - in disguise. But I was hoping we'd see a very beautiful dress when she was her true self. We wouldn't have gotten a clear look at it, because she had to be super bright and hazy with magic so we wouldn't know who she was when we saw her as a beggar later in the movie, but still.

I didn't know that about Snow White and Walt Disney! I mean, I had heard he hated the film because everyone kept comparing his later films to that one, but I am so glad to hear how he thought of it fondly in the years before he passed.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:53 am 
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I never noticed teal in the live-action film's ballroom. I'll have to go back and check that out.

Considering it kept its original title in European markets, it makes me wonder how much of an issue this actually was or perhaps Americans are just more sexist and obsessed with gender norms.

I suppose they're his father so they'll love him but I personally wouldn't be able to if I was in that situation.

I thought after she dropped her disguise, we'd see her true form and some unique design but it was so boring overall. I didn't like it at all.

He did dislike it for a while but he certainly came around to liking SW again near the end.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:45 am 
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I think in the US there is less crossover of girl things and boy things. I think in other countries boys can do things the US sees as feminine, and also like things seen as feminine.

Do you mean you wouldn't be able to love your father if he did that to your mother, or if you were the wife of someone who did that you wouldn't love him?

I was still ok with the live-action Enchantress' design. I guess she was the type who wasn't into wearing fancy clothes. I just really wanted her to.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:24 pm 
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I think that's definitely true. The US is very rigid on gender roles for some reason, maybe from the Puritan base of the country.

Umm, probably both if either or was the case. I can't abide cheaters and that's the one absolute deal-breaker for me in a relationship.

I understand why she would be understated when she's in disguise but it's hard to compare to the stained glass depiction of her which is so iconic and well-done. They basically gave her the live-action Belle treatment with her final design in the movie. It was no more memorable than Emma Watson's yellow dress. I'm glad Emma Watson didn't fight against wearing a corset in Little Women or try to redesign the clothes because she looked absolutely lovely in the pink dress she borrows for her debut.

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