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 Post subject: Peter Pan Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:18 pm 
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I love the story of Peter Pan. When it comes to Disney's adaptation of it, though, I'm slightly less enthusiastic. The most important thing is that the spirit of the original story does come through. The characters, too, are near perfect. Peter, Captain Hook (stands out among Disney's best villains), and Tinkerbell are precisely as they should be, in my opinion.

So where does the film fall short? The plot itself suffers from the same problem as The Jungle Book, in my opinion, in that it becomes boring several times throughout the film.

The animation and imagery is superb, if memory serves (it's been a little over a year since I last saw it). The songs are great, too, and the score is among film history's best, in my opinion, as it succeeds in what all scores aspire to do- capture a film's essence in sound. My favorite song would of course be You Can Fly, followed by The Second Star To The Right (the teeny-bop version on DisneyMania 2 is great, too).

Of course, this is one of the Disney classics I grew up with (and never found it boring when I was younger), so there is a big nostalgia factor there. Still, other adaptations have been better. Overlooking Hook (which isn't so much an adapatation as it is a sequel), Mary Martin's play-on-video is probably my favorite adaptation, narrowly edging out last year's big-budget production, which only narrowly edges out Disney's. All three of them have flaws, though. (Hook is perfect, but again, doesn't have a script to follow, as it's only a very creative sequel).

As far as film history goes, I greatly appreciate the significance of this film to the Disney legacy and to the legacy of the Peter Pan story. With Bobby Driscoll's voice and the animation of Tinkerbell, Disney was able to break stage tradition and use a male instead of a female Peter Pan, and an actual character for Tink, rather than just a light. Also, Tinkerbell has gone on to be Jimminy Cricket-esque in stature, serving as a mascot for all of Disneydom (possibly due to the timing of the film and the beginning of Walt's TV show, where she lit up the top of the castle). Peter Pan's Flight at Disney World is absolutely fantastic, and among my favorites.

I hope to revisit Disney's Peter Pan sometime in the near future, and anxiously await the Platinum DVD release. The imaginative childhood conveyed by J.M. Barrie's story has fascinated the entire world since its conception, which speaks volumes about it. The fact that such a famous story is now so commonly associated with Disney (though not so much as Alice In Wonderland, which I like better than this) speaks volumes about Walt's adaptation as well.

I'd probably give it a 7/10.

-Aaron

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:34 pm 
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Peter Pan's another one of my favorite Disney films. Sure it has some slow spots despite the brief running time, but when the movie flies, it soars. The animation's very beautiful, of course, and the film has a very memorable score. You Can Fly, You Can Fly, You Can Fly is definitely one of the most magical moments in a Disney film ever which isn't surprising since every Disney film from the 50's has that one hugely well known moment, which is why the 50's is my favorite decade of Disney. Although I like the 2003 live action adaptation more, this one is still great and I can't wait to own the Platinum Edition.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:44 am 
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i like the movie Peter Pan. it was truly a great movie. it was suprising to see that Walt Disney had been working on this film for such a long time since after the release of Snow White. I realized that if you watch "The Reluctant Dragon: Behind the Scenes of the Walt Disney Studios" movie, you can see some that some of the clay models were characters from films such as "Peter Pan" and "Lady and the Tramp". still Peter Pan was great with its good music and excellent story-telling. :)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:02 am 
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As you no doubt know, I'm not a big fan of a lot of the Disney narratives during the so-called "golden age". Too many films appear to be a series of events with no overall cohesion to the story. While this is not always a fair criticism, after all Alice in Wonderland and Peter Pan were strongly based on pre-existing works.

However, I do feel Peter Pan suffers from muddled content. Peter Pan is introduced via the plot-thread of him loosing his shadow, but nothing ever comes of this later. It's quickly forgotten and not referenced again. The same can be said for the whole interlude with the Indians and Tiger Lilly's kidnapping. The Indian's specifically have nothing to do with the story before or after this segment, making their whole inclusion appear pointless. They're not even seen in the film's climax!

I also have a problem with the ending of the film. At the start of the film Wendy is resisting having to move out of the nursery, although her reasons are never fully stated. By the time she returns home at the end of the film, she's accepted that she needs to move out. But why? Again the reasons are never stated. Personally I would have thought that the time she was playing "mother" to the lost boys would have made her more convinced than ever that she should be staying in the nursery with her brothers.

To me, and this is my personal point of view, the whole film just adds up to nothing. There's no character development, no real quest and no worthwhile lessons or morals.

Yes, I know it's unfair to blame this on Disney as such, but it is Disney's fault when it was Disney who decided Peter Pan would make a good subject for a film and Disney who didn't insist on changing the story too much for the film medium. After all, Disney had no qualms about enhancing Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs or expanding Sleeping Beauty for the screen, or even (virtually) ignoring the Jungle Book story and making his own for the movie.

While I can, of course, appreciate the art and animation in Peter Pan (although I'm slightly upset that some of the darker designs and concepts showcased in the gallery on the Special Edition DVD didn't find their way into the film), I cannot understand why Peter Pan is so popular.

In my opinion Return to Never Land is a much more satisfying film, with a proper story with a beginning, middle and end. (And no, it's not just a rehash of Peter Pan with a child of a main character. It actually addresses some worthwhile issues).

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:39 am 
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my favorite topic...yay! :) I love Peter Pan, anything to DO with Peter Pan (no I don't have a Tinkerbell poster in my room) but anything to do with the movie, play, or story of Peter Pan, believe me I own. hehehehe I've seen the play over eight times, which anyone in Minnesota should definatley go check out here down in the cities ina few weeks. As far as movies go, I owe my love for Peter Pan TO Walt Disney, I mean, as a kid I was even more obsessed. My favorite Peter Pan movie though would definatley have to be PJ Hogans adaptation that was released this year, wonderfully sweet and well done movie. Awesome movie, I think I went to it like three times in theaters and own it and watch it regularly. That adaptation follows the book way more and its fun to hear lines from the book actually being brought out into the film (ie: "can anything harm us after the night lights are lit?" "no, night lights are something something something that mothers leave behind to watch over their children") Anyone with a love for the book should definatley see this movie.
Return to Neverland is an awesome movie as well, especially for being a sequel. The music is perfect, after seeing the movie for the first time I rushed out to buy the soundtrack. (By the way, the soundtrack from PJ Hogans' film is definatley a must have) Return to Neverland is a beautiful movie, besides from the music. The story, like previously stated, has a lot of real issues that were brought out, but that doesn't take away from Peter Pan, in my opinion. Just because the orginal doesn't have to do with real issues apart from growing up, means nothing, this movie is one of those purly for enjoyment movies, which is perfect for the story.
But yea, that's my big long lecture on Peter Pan. Oh I just love the story. I'm looking forward to JM Barrie's Neverland due out this Christmas starring Johnny Depp, awwww so excited. Johnny Depp AND Peter Pan! :) hehehe well sort of.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:06 am 
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I cant stand Tinkerbell pass anything beyond the original movie


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:49 am 
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Quote:
The story, like previously stated, has a lot of real issues that were brought out, but that doesn't take away from Peter Pan, in my opinion.


There's nothing wrong with liking both of Disney's Peter Pan movies. One does not have to take the place of the other. Neither one is without faults but Return to Neverland actually does have more story development to it and a lot of the visuals are better too.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:49 am 
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As much as I love Peter Pan, it is one of the more juvenile and episodic of all the Disney features. I enjoy the whole theme and message of the film rather than the film itself. I also honestly enjoy the original novel and Return to NeverLand much better.

I've yet to see the new live-action Peter Pan, but I'm really excited about Finding NeverLand w/ Johnny Depp and Kate Winslet.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:46 pm 
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:pan: Peter Pan is my favorite Disney feature of the 50's! It is somewhat like Alice in that it manages to use a wide palette of colors and was heavily influenced by the art of Mary Blair. I'd have to disagree in the point that some plotlines weren't clearly explained or resolved. In Peter Pan, I feel it is the exact opposite of Return to Neverland. Wendy likes living in the nursery and doesn't want to grow up. When Peter Pan finally takes her away to Neverland, Wendy actually acts less like a child and finds she is probably more grown up than she thought:
~ She didn't think anything was funny when Peter was messing with Capt. Hook in the cave
~ She made sure Michael didn't smoke the peace pipe at the Indian encampment
~ She worried about all the lost boys
~ She knew it was important that they returned home whereas John and Michael seemed as if they were to live there forever.
With Return to Neverland, we have the complete opposite with Jane:
~ Probably because of the WWII, Jane felt she she act more grown up in such a time period and did everything she could to protect her family.
~ She tried to push away the fantasies of Peter Pan and didn't believe want to believe any of it even when she is actually there.
~ In this film it turns out that Jane is not as grown up as she thought she was (she sticks her tongue out at Danny and tried to tell a little little boy (Danny of course) that he should grow up because of the war outside! What sensible grown up would do that!?)
~ Peter and the lost boys teach her to be a kid again, something she missed and cut short.

:lol: Lol, okay maybe I analyzed it too much, but that's how I see the story. It is about of course the magical land of NeverNeverland and Wendy's realization that she has to grow up. Anyhow, I always loved these Disney inerpretations of beloved children's tales. As a child, this was what all we had. We never had a traditional fairy-tale story book. We only had the videos and the Disney books. So for my family, this was the original story. It wasn't until I grew up (how ironic ) that I learned the original stories and read non-disney interpretations.

Overall, I'd recommend this movie and it's sequel (which IMO is the best of the Disney sequels, not counting Pixar) to anyone who had read the original play/book, seen the original play, or has heard the story before. Disney's Peter Pan is a great adaptation with great, suiting music (The Second Star to the Right is my favorite), beautiful art and animation.


p.s. I found a trailer for that Finding Neverland movie. It looks like a nice film, but to me it seems like one of those movies with some great scenes and some boring, dragged out scenes.
http://www.apple.com/trailers/miramax/f ... neverland/

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:54 pm 
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Ahh... the last Academy Disney 1.375 Animated classic. No full frame-open matte-pan/scan-widescreen conflicts :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:41 pm 
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Here are some more original lyrics for some Peter Pan songs:

The Second Star to the Right (not too much different)
(first two verses are the same)
Twinkle, twinkle little star
So I'll know where you are
Gleaming in the skies above
Lead me to the one who loves me, (Lead me to the land I dream of)

And when you bring him my way (And when our journey is through)
Each time we say "good night"
We'll thank the littlte star that shines
The second from the right.

You Can Fly! (x3)
Think of the presents you've brought (Think of a wonderful thought!)
Any merry little thought
Think of Christmas, think of snow
Think of sleigh bells. Here we go! (Think of sleigh bells, off we go!)
Like reindeer in the sky!
You can fly! You can fly! You can fly!

( Think of the happiest things!
It's the same as having wings!
Think of paths that moonbeams make
If the moon is still awake!
You'll see him wink his eye!
You can fly! You can fly! You can fly! )

Soon you'll zoom all around the room. (Up you go with a heigh and ho)
All it takes is faith and trust (To the stars beyond the blue.)
But the thing that's a positive must (There's a Neverland waiting for you!)
Is a little bit of Pixie Dust (Where all you're happy dreams come true)
The dust is a positive must. (Every dream that you dream will come true.)

When there's a smile in your heart
There's no better time to start
It's a vert simple plan. (Think of all the joy you'll find)
You can do what birdies can; (When you leave the world behind!)
At least it's worth a try! (And bid your tears good bye!)

You can fly! You can fly! You can fly!

( When there's a smile in your heart
There's no better time to start
Think of all the joy you'll find
When you leave the world behind!
And bid your tears good bye!

You can fly! etc....)


EDIT: Added original lyrics in parenthesis

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:30 pm 
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Thanks for posting those, Kram. The alternate lyrics are interesting, but I think that overall, I like the ones they used better.

-Aaron

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 Post subject: Peter Pan
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:36 pm 
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Oh yes I loved that movie. That is one of my favorites I have the Black Diamond VHS. That lullaby reminds me of a lullaby I used to love as a child.

Here are the lyrics.

Twinkle twinkle
Stars are in the sky
Time to sing a lullaby
Sing you a song
Of a toy balloon
Sailing all around the moon

Twinkle twinkle
'Cross the milky way
Where the stars
Come out to play
Sailing along
Where the moonlight beams
A toy balloon
In a land of dreams

Go to sleep and very soon
You'll be like that toy balloon
Deep in dreamland
Far beyond the sky
Twinkle twinkle
Twinkle hushabye

Deep in dreamland
Far beyond the sky
Twinkle twinkle
Twinkle hushabye
Twinkle twinkle hushabye

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:25 pm 
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I think Peter Pan is a timeless story. We can see ourselves in at least one of the characters. Mr. Darling, who has lost all childish belief whatsoever. Mrs. Darling, who, while she doesn't believe in childish things, still can see through the eyes of a child. Wendy, who is struggling at that age between childhood and adulthood, trying to find her place in the world. John, who is eager to grow up, but still needs to be a child. And Michael, who is happy just to be a child. A jealous pixie. A bloody pirate. And a boy that won't grow up. If I had to pick which character is most like me, I'd say John. I was always eager to act older than I am. But if I could choose who I wanted to be, it'd definitely be Peter. He flies, he has adventures, and he doesn't grow up. I think that's what makes this film so enduring. Every boy wants to be Peter Pan.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 9:25 pm 
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I really like Peter Pan it's one of the best Disney Animation Film since Cinderella came out in the 50's.
This film is so great I really like the Lost Boys and Tinker Bell.
Who could forget Peter Pan and Wendy.
Neverland rocks!!! :pan: :pan:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:22 pm 
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Peter Pan was one of the first movies I got for my collection when i was younger it has a very special place in my heart. To me Peter Pan is like everyones childhood fantasy. I remember thinking when I was younger how luck Wendy, Michale and John were to be able to leave in the middle of the night go flying with Peter Pan to Never Land and how Wendy got to see everything and the mermaids were my favorite. I would go to bed with the hope that I could to do the same. I think its a great movie and I look foward to seeing this as PE realse :D .


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:15 am 
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I'm surprised I haven't bumped this yet, because I love discussing Peter Pan. Obviously, it's my favorite Diseny film. It has everything: Magic, humour, romance, emotional impact, and adventure.

Peter Pan was not my first DAC. I actually think it was my 8th, with the first being Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. Snow White had always been my favorite when I was little. That is, until I discovered the Peter Pan VHS hidden in a cabinet one day. I lulled it out, and pretty much forced my mom to put it on. The moment Peter said, "We're off to Neverland!" I knew I had found something special. From that moment on, I loved it, and it has become my favorite Disney AC, and favorite Disney film, overall.

:)

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Last edited by PeterPanfan on Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:30 pm 
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Peter Pan is actually one of my least favorite Disney films, even as a child. I don't know if it's just Disney's version of the story or simply the story itself, but I can't stand Peter Pan, Hook or Tinkerbell. Peter Pan is very much a brat, which I suppose goes with the "innocent child" label, but he's still very much unlikable and never really changes. Hook is beyond pathetic--it seems the only thing memorable about him is his being chased by the crocodile, which, while hilarious, does not a great villain make. Tinkerbell is probably the best of all three, as she does make a change in the end and has somewhat of an excuse for her actions (can only feel one emotion at a time?). In the end, only Wendy, Mrs. Darling and Nana leave any kind of positive impression on me.

As for the plot, I don't really understand the point of the Indians either, as they are horribly stereotyped and could probably have been filled in with something more entertaining anyway. I also hate how the film treated the female characters, all of whom are jealously attached to a little boy. :roll:

Quote:
I also have a problem with the ending of the film. At the start of the film Wendy is resisting having to move out of the nursery, although her reasons are never fully stated. By the time she returns home at the end of the film, she's accepted that she needs to move out. But why? Again the reasons are never stated. Personally I would have thought that the time she was playing "mother" to the lost boys would have made her more convinced than ever that she should be staying in the nursery with her brothers.


When watching the film, I can definitely understand how Wendy came to her conclusion. After dealing with all the mayhem and insanity of the Lost Boys, she probably realized that, if that was childhood, it was time for her to grow up.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:01 pm 
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My favorite scenes are the ones that don't take place in Neverland :| . Seriously, after the song "You Can Fly! You can Fly! You Can Fly!" I just want to skip to the end when Peter says "at your service, my lady" and they fly home.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:19 pm 
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I always found Peter Pan mediocre. But after I've read Alan Moore's "Lost Girls" recently, I just find it hilarious. I can't watch this old fashioned movie without thinking of Moore's interpretation of the Pan story :lol:.


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