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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:31 pm 
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Moana is number one for me. I loved the movie, the songs and the characters and in my opinion it's one of the best Disney has made since the 90's. Moana is one of the most layered, three dimensional characters.

As for the rest, I really don't know how to rank them. I feel like each of them has strength in some aspects and weakness in others.

I liked Frozen, but I never thought it was the greatest thing ever. Though I don't think it is "spectacle more than substance", it does feel that way sometimes. It lacks nuance when it tries to "break tropes" and it has weird plot structure.

Brave's strength lies with the relationship between Merida and Elinor, which has a much more genuine relationship than Elsa and Anna, their conflict feels much more real and they have more interaction in the film. Brave's language is much more richer than all the other films as well. It has some of the weakest parts in all films. The humor is terrible and some elements don't fit to the atmosphere of the film (like the witch).

Tangled is fine but pretty much unremarkable. It has a tighter plot
structure than Frozen and Brave, but the music is not great (did we really need a musical number for secondary characters?). It doesn't really bring anything new, it's the most similar to a Renaissance film, but it also pales in comparison (the music is not as good as the Renaissance films and the villain is not as great as Ursula, Jafar and co).

So what is your opinion? How would you rank them?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:14 pm 
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1. Frozen
2. Moana
3. Tangled
4. Brave

Frozen is the only one I'm attached to. A combination of great characters (other than the trolls), great music/singers (other than "Fixer Upper" and the Demi Lovato end credits song), and an interesting story. I love the designs for this film (the characters and the backgrounds), other than Olaf/the trolls. Arendelle's castle is so pretty. Frozen's the only 3D film from Disney that I would call a favorite; the rest of them I could've done without for an alternative universe where hand-drawn animation wasn't killed off.

Moana was a decent film. I loved Tala, Pua, and Moana. The disapproving father plot is old hat, so that was a bit boring. I don't know, I'm just not very fond of these nonstop roadtrip films although everything is fine. The soundtrack was alright, too, although I wouldn't put it on par with Frozen's or most of the '90s soundtracks (or Disney's best, in general). "How Far I'll Go" and "I Am Moana" are my favorite tracks, especially Alessia Cara's version of the former, and "Shiny" is good, too; "We Know the Way" is a standout whenever I watch the film, but I never listen to it outside the film. I'm glad this movie got a title that isn't stupid like the others.

Tangled's been growing on me the past two years--in large part due to the TV series making me like the characters more. I don't think it'll ever be a big favorite of mine, but it's a good movie. The music is good, could be better (although I blame the directors for that). I've always loved Rapunzel (the character) and Mandy Moore is good voice actor. Gothel was always disappointing for me, but Donna Murphy is great.

Brave is...okay. I liked the relationship between Merida and Elinor, and the Mor'du backstory. I've always liked Fergus and Elinor as a couple, too. In general, I've always felt letdown by this film. The male characters are mostly unfunny comic relief and The Witch could've been so much than she was (considering they had Julie Walters).

I'm not fond of 3D, period, but at least Frozen and Moana had visually appealing wintry and ocean scenery. *shrug*

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:49 pm 
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1) Frozen
2) Moana
3) Brave
4) Tangled

Frozen is the only one I loved when it came out, even if my feelings towards it have dialed down since then. I loved the music and the characters and it was my favorite movie since Enchanted and the one that felt most like a return to the 90s. My main issues are the lack of development in the sisterly relationship between Elsa and Anna, the Kristoff romance which is shoehorned in, Hans' character being wasted, and the inclusion of the trolls. I also don't like some of the gross humor related to Kristoff and Anna's valley girl speak. Ideally I would have loved to have seen this movie in 2D animation, moreso than the others because the character designs are all elevated in hand-drawn form from the concept art I've seen.

Moana I enjoyed but it hasn't become a favorite of mine. This may be an unpopular opinion but I still prefer its spiritual predecessor Pocahontas (I don't find much in common between the two films but people always compare them). The humor is too meta for my taste and distasteful towards Disney's legacy. Moana feels too generic, both the titular character and the movie, like a mashup of Disney's past princess films. So it's no wonder that current generations consider this Disney's most perfect film considering how obvious it was tailored to achieve that designation, and the same applies for Moana the character herself. The visuals are stunning however the songs are just ok, not nearly as memorable as Frozen's.

Brave disappointed me when I first saw it and that feeling has only resonated even more since. The visuals are gorgeous though and I love the songs and score. As an Ariel and Jasmine fan, I don't really mind Merida much although her outright poisoning her mother doesn't gel well with me. Her relationship with Eleanor is very well done though and it's nice to see Disney focus on a mother-daughter relationship since that hasn't been done before. I don't care for the gross humor though, especially with the triplets. On top of that basically every male character was boorish. A movie isn't feminist or empowering if the female characters only look good because the male ones are all buffoons.

Tangled is my least favorite of the four, perhaps especially because I always wanted to see Disney do their take on Rapunzel and I wasn't pleased with this adaptation. The visuals have obviously aged the most compared to the others. There's not a single character I care for, from Rapunzel and her animal sidekicks to the villain and the ridiculous supporting cast of thugs and ruffians. The Dreamworks type humor doesn't help, especially Flynn's intro and the ending shot with the cupid thug. The songs are not Menken's best work but I don't blame him for that as much as micromanagement. Even the setting of the kingdom is just a bland mesh of European countries and not unique at all, and the same goes for the fashions. Really wish Glen Keane could have delivered his take on Rapunzel instead of this farce. Imo this is a highly overrated and very unspectacular film.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:44 pm 
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Moana is the last for me. Animation was really great. Plot was good, but nothing too special for me. Music however was unmemorable for me, and from the songs I only liked How Far I'll Go and I Am Moana, and We Know The Way. Also, Moana is really the only character I liked in the movie (except minor ones like her mother or grandma). But once again, I don't find her to be any special, like, you can find her personality in many other princesses before her.

Tangled is a weird one for me. It's not one of my favourites, but I can't exactly say what was wrong with it? I don't know, but even the tv show is so much better in my opinion. Characters are great, songs are good, the movie has very memorable villain, and Rapunzel was a new kind of the princess. During rewatching however, the scenes between Rapunzel leaving the tower and her returning to it with Gothel are kind of boring for me, and it's like half of the movie.

Brave is a success for me when it comes to many aspects. Characters are great and their development amazing. Animation is gorgeous, definitely my favourite from all the CGI princess movies. Music is fantastic. The relationship between Merida and Elinor is something new, as well Merida is a new kind of princess. However, plot could be better. The original version would be amazing. The scenes between Elinor turning into bear and them returning to the Witch's house are really boring during rewatching.

Frozen is probably my favourite from these four, which is actually surprising even for me. When I think about Frozen, I think about many plot holes and how I don't like Elsa character. But it has amazing plot, very likeable main heroine, great animation and amazing music and songs. I guess with Frozen, I'm jest really tired of it, and I don't like some aspects of Disney promotion of it (Anna is a main character. Seriously, Disney, Anna, not Elsa. Don't give Elsa a whole DVD cover when there is place for two characters on it). But the movie is really good.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:11 pm 
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Moana and Tangled probably are my two favorite of the 4...However, both have some flaws that others on this thread have pointed out. Tangled suffers from songs that are not catchy or memorable...a villain who I think would have been better had she more motive than simple vanity..I also thought she should have been magical. The chemistry between the two main leads is what keeps the film afloat in my opinion..after seeing the animated series, they have quickly become ( one of) my favorite Disney couples. Moana (IMO) feels somewhat hodgepodge...I would be interested to see what the original concept/story was for comparison to the final product. The song "Shiny" is the only one, I find myself cringing at...in fact..I did not care for that entire sequence. The ending is what I think gives the film so much heart (and the grandmother)...when Moana begins to sing the song to Te Fiti "Know Who You Are".......it touches me!

Brave...ehh..it's middle of the road for me. I like the character of Merida, but, there are so many plot points, characters, etc. that are wasted or could have been taken out all together. It is pretty to look at though and all of the cast were great choices.

Frozen.....well...I was actually looking forward to this, when it was first announced and would have really liked Elsa to have been more of a villain who finds redemption( which I think is how it was originally intended). However, other than "Let It Go"..the songs suck! and I could go a lifetime without ever hearing the line, "Do You Want to Build A Snowman?"....and the trolls....why were they even in the movie? There must have been scenes cut out including them, because, they seem very "copy and paste" in the film.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:57 am 
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1) Moana
My favourite M&C movie. I've never been a big M&C fan, so it's nice that (for me) their last film was their best. Even with studio (Lasseter) meddling, it turned out so well. I love how the music and moral are succesfully interwoven throughout the story.

2) Tangled
It felt like a return to classic Disney. Farerb may be right that it's most reminiscent of the renaissance movies. I remember the first time seeing the shot where mother Gothel is pulled up into the tower for the first time and thinking 'this is Disney'. That's when I started believing CGI Disney could work.

3) Frozen
This feels like a low placing. I certainly don't dislike Frozen, it just feels rushed. There's no time to stop and let anything have any real impact. Heck, the 'eternal winter' lasted all of three days. The musical unfortunately didn't take the opportunity to expand the emotional journey. Love Idina Menzel in anything she does though, so her finally becoming a Princess, and the most popular one at that, is a good bonus.

4) Brave
Mess of a film, just not interested.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:32 pm 
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I'm gonna most likely repeat myself, but here it goes;

Brave. Despite that it's easy to dismiss it as being irrelevant to this list (since it's a Pixar), I thought Brave was the very best of this generations Princess movies, despite it's faults. At least Brave had a brilliant, seductive score, some good songs and quite some atmosphere to it, despite that it's faults were obvious (a story that was incongruous). The all Scottish voice cast helped also to distinguish the film and the animation was brilliant. Yet for the incongruity to the story, at least I realized afterwards that there was a equal character growth between mother and daughter. I did like King Fergus, though. Too bad that the main story was too simplistic and derivative. Hadn't it been for it having the Pixar-esque designs, it could've easily been purely a Disney property.

Moana. For me it stands between Tangled and Moana, which I both consider to be even. But at least Moana had it's perks. It did have a couple of nice moments and a couple of nice songs. Though Moana even surprised me, as some elements that I thought were going to drag the film down, were tolerable (as Hei Hei, Maui and the comedic song numbers). At least the animation was splendid and the non-love interest element was done better here, which the film didn't center about. Moana herself is a likable heroine and the film was steeped in Disney's traditions, without feeling too derivative. Though I personally detested several elements (Tamatoa and Kakamora), at least Moana was passable enough, though it could've been truly outstanding instead.

Tangled. Tangled is a mixed bag, for while having it's moments, it was just okay and nothing beyond that. It did have it's moments, but perhaps not enough to truly take it to the next level. At least it's steeped in what makes Disney Disney. Flynn Rider was the sexiest lead character since John Smith and the animation was good. Pascal was truly a likable sidekick. I did like I See The Light and Healing Incantation, but the others were just meh. However, I personally thought that Tangled was more dramatically uneven than it's peers, but at least it was passable enough.

Frozen. Not only I consider it to be quite overrated, but underwhelming as a whole. It struggles with dramatic inconsistency, yet what people have ranted about The Princess and the Frog (a busy storyline) they haven't ranted about Frozen's, which is even more hampering in the latter movie. Besides, the film is filled with certain norms that break the fairy tale tropes, though they've would've been more needed in a storyline that actually has room for it. The catalyst of the events (Elsa) is reduced to a subplot, when it actually would've benefited from being the main storyline. Besides, the designs for the humans are awfully generic, even by Disney standards. Some of the songs works (For the First Time in Forever, Frozen Heart and of course the main anthem Let it Go), while the other ares meh, as it the score, which never takes truly advantage of it's cultural setting.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:26 am 
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farerb wrote:
The humor is terrible and some elements don't fit to the atmosphere of the film (like the witch).

I don't...what? The witch is a magical character like the magic will o' the wisps and bears transforming. She's the one who brings about the bear stuff in the first place. Is it you didn't like the way they portrayed her?

farerb wrote:
(did we really need a musical number for secondary characters?).

But secondary character songs are great like "Under the Sea" and "Be Our Guest"!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:44 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
farerb wrote:
(did we really need a musical number for secondary characters?).

But secondary character songs are great like "Under the Sea" and "Be Our Guest"!

There's a difference between the Snugly Duckling thugs and Sebastian or the enchanted objects. For that matter, there's also a difference between I've Got a Dream and those songs you mentioned.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:42 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
farerb wrote:
The humor is terrible and some elements don't fit to the atmosphere of the film (like the witch).

I don't...what? The witch is a magical character like the magic will o' the wisps and bears transforming. She's the one who brings about the bear stuff in the first place. Is it you didn't like the way they portrayed her?


I thought the will o' the wisp felt really mystical and mysterious and all they did was to lead Merida to a comical witch. I thought it would have been better if Elinor was turned into a bear by unexplained mystical mysterious forces, it would have fitted the film better. I thought the whole sequence from the point where Merida enters the witch's cottage to the point where she and bear-Elinor leaves the cottage (including the way Elinor got turned into a bear and the comical chase scene) felt out of place.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:56 am 
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1. Brave. Scotland looks awesome, I like Merida's character, and I appreciate a movie where the mom has a role outside of the wicked stepmother, the angelic corpse or the "waste of space" / "load mom" (Aurora's mom, Mulan's mom, Moana's mom). I don't even care if this film is not liked by many in the fandom, I personally enjoy it.

2. Moana. Too commercial, but the Polynesian aspect makes it more engaging. The character of Moana is really dull and generic tho.

3. Frozen. Again, the animation and design is rather generic, and I don't care for the humor, but I like what they suggest with Elsa being gay or having depression or what have you, and I like her and Hans. Anna is boring tho, and kinda desconsiderate. The other characters feel also useless.

4. Tangled. Too commercial, and I don't really like all the bright colors for the design of the film and unspecified location for the setting. It makes me think too much of a Barbie movie.

Brave is the only one I genuinely like about these, tbh. The rest are just rather "meh" for me.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:39 am 
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JeanGreyForever yeah they aren't as good but it sounded like he thought no secondary characters should ever get songs.

Ok farerb, sounds like you just didn't like the comical stuff. If the witch had been more mysterious and mystical maybe you would have liked it. But the witch is very important to the plot and random forces changing Elinor wouldn't work.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:19 am 
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My problem with the ruffians is that, unlike Sebastian and the enchanted objects, they don't play a major role throuout the film (They could have had Flynn escape with different means). We just have a whole song about THEIR dream unlike TLM/BatB where the songs are for or about the main characters. Plus the ruffians are not really sidekicks and they lower the film with their dreamworksy humor.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:44 pm 
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farerb wrote:
My problem with the ruffians is that, unlike Sebastian and the enchanted objects, they don't play a major role throuout the film (They could have had Flynn escape with different means). We just have a whole song about THEIR dream unlike TLM/BatB where the songs are for or about the main characters. Plus the ruffians are not really sidekicks and they lower the film with their dreamworksy humor.

I definitely agree with this. They feel shoehorned in first of all and contribute nothing besides stale humor so I don't really have an interest in hearing a song of theirs. They are neither important or interesting enough to warrant a full song especially on their dreams. I also hate the ending shot of the film with a ruffian playing Cupid. That felt like a very Dreamworks moment.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:31 pm 
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JeanGreyForever wrote:
I also hate the ending shot of the film with a ruffian playing Cupid. That felt like a very Dreamworks moment.


Agreed. I just don't understand why a musical film doesn't end with a song (same thing with Frozen and Mulan).
To be honest, I feel like Flynn should have stayed dead at the end with Rapunzel reuniting with her parents. It would have been bittersweet but Disney would have never taken that risk.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:17 pm 
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Disney really tried to underplay that Tangled was a musical so I'm not surprised they ended on that note. Especially considering the introduction for the film.

Yeah, I can't imagine Disney ending one of their fairy tale films with an unhappy ending. Especially not Tangled considering how all the darkness and bleakness of the original tale was sugarcoated anyway. Disney's Rapunzel doesn't acted at all like a socially isolated character which is another reason I wish we could have seen Glen Keane's original version.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:06 pm 
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JeanGreyForever wrote:
Which is another reason I wish we could have seen Glen Keane's original version.

Me too, but I've ranted about it priorly.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:27 am 
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Yeah, me too.

farerb wrote:
To be honest, I feel like Flynn should have stayed dead at the end with Rapunzel reuniting with her parents.

Why?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:29 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
Yeah, me too.

farerb wrote:
To be honest, I feel like Flynn should have stayed dead at the end with Rapunzel reuniting with her parents.

Why?


It feels like it would make sense for the characters, Flynn succeeds setting Rapunzel free but he doesn't get to enjoy that. In some way his final act was to help another person while he only cared about himself his entire life.

I realize I'm over exaggerating but I really wish the film had a different ending than that epilogue with Flynn explaining everything about everyone including the ruffians I don't care about. I remember something about Cinderella and how Walt wanted the happy ending to be short otherwise you lose something (I don't remember what exactly was said but it was something along those lines) and in Tangled it really shows.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:18 am 
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farerb wrote:
I realize I'm over exaggerating but I really wish the film had a different ending than that epilogue with Flynn explaining everything about everyone including the ruffians I don't care about. I remember something about Cinderella and how Walt wanted the happy ending to be short otherwise you lose something (I don't remember what exactly was said but it was something along those lines) and in Tangled it really shows.

I like that idea of a selfish character ultimately helping someone else's dreams come true through a selfless act which ultimately sacrifices their life.

From what I've heard about Cinderella, the plan was that after Cinderella puts on the glass slipper, she would then be presented to the prince at the palace. She worries that the prince will not accept her when he sees her in rags but he does so anyway. At that moment the fairy godmother would appear and transform her back into her ballgown. Walt felt that this was unnecessary especially because the audience would have to question for another minute or so if Cinderella would truly get her happy ending. Thus, skipping ahead to the wedding spared them that.

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