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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:25 am 
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Sotiris wrote:
It's times like these I wish we had a like button.

Me too, though I've ranted about it priorly. But at least I've used smilies now and then as a replacement :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:02 pm 
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I agree almost about everything. Especially the traditional animation. Sometimes I feel like WDAS died with TPATF and Pixar 2 was reborn instead.

What happened with Paperman? I thought Disney is still in development with that technology.

I disagree about DTV sequels. I thought they were unnecessary, especially the BatB ones, it was a self contained story (unlike the rest which you can play either with what happened before or what happened after), with only one conflict which can't be overplayed like how they did with the sequels. Belle and the Beaast can't argue about stupid things (like a bird) over and over, and the Beast can't repeatedly learn not to be a jerk all the time, that's redundant and abusive.

I disagree about adding the songs as well. I like Human Again in and out of itself, but adding it 10 years after the film and the score were completed really ruined the pacing of the film and made the score disjointed. For example, after each major song there's a playoff in the next scene, so what we got when they added Human Again was Something There -> Human Again -> Something There playoff. I'm sure if they had found a way to add it back then, it would have felt more organic to the film. The reason it worked with Pocahontas was because the song was cut really late in production and the score is filled with If I Never Knew You theme many times.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:11 pm 
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farerb wrote:
I disagree about adding the songs as well. I like Human Again in and out of itself, but adding it 10 years after the film and the score were completed really ruined the pacing of the film and made the score disjointed. For example, after each major song there's a playoff in the next scene, so what we got when they added Human Again was Something There -> Human Again -> Something There playoff. I'm sure if they had found a way to add it back then, it would have felt more organic to the film. The reason it worked with Pocahontas was because the song was cut really late in production and the score is filled with If I Never Knew You theme many times.

Agreed. The changes in animation also really stand out to me in Beauty. Mrs. Potts spout is just a tad too long, Cogsworth's glass panel doesn't reflect light that often during the rest of the film, Belle's eyes!, etc. I hate how they added yet another version of Belle to the film. And why did they change the book to Romeo and Juliette? That's a bit too on the nose... Also agreed the film doesn't flow too well with Something There -> Human Again -> Beauty and the Beast.

I usually watch Beauty and the Beast without Human Again. However, I refuse to buy Pocahontas on Blu-Ray so long as If I Never Knew You isn't reinstated. The Morning Report was a mess all around. Should've been Endless Night if you ask me.
I'd agree on To Be Free. Not perfect by any means, But Lea Salonga needs more songs ;)
I read a rumour around the time of the Little Mermaid Platinum release about such a newly animated song for Triton, The Sun Only Shines On Land. I've never seen it mentioned since, does it ring a bell to anyone?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:26 pm 
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I also feel as if Disney missed the boat on giving their animated shows proper home video releases. Shows like Aladdin and The Little Mermaid could've benefitted from a complete series DVD release around the time their Platinum Edition DVDs came out, even if they were available for a limited time only. Even Winnie the Pooh! It's frustrating to know the only official releases of these shows are on VHS.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:45 pm 
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Nandor wrote:
Agreed. The changes in animation also really stand out to me in Beauty. Mrs. Potts spout is just a tad too long, Cogsworth's glass panel doesn't reflect light that often during the rest of the film, Belle's eyes!, etc. I hate how they added yet another version of Belle to the film. And why did they change the book to Romeo and Juliette? That's a bit too on the nose... Also agreed the film doesn't flow too well with Something There -> Human Again -> Beauty and the Beast.


I hated how the Beast didn't know how to read. He's a nobleman, he should know how to read.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:34 pm 
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DisneyFan09 wrote:
Well, to give some thoughts of mine;

I think Disney could've given The Lion King an animated series that was more similar to The Lion Guard back on it's heyday. While I did enjoy Timon and Pumbaa-series, they were still stylistically a departure from the movie. While that show was still enjoyable on it's own merits, it's perhaps not the ideal concept that I've would've pictured The Lion King.

Otherwise, I personally think Bambi could've benefited a series as well. In the same vein as The New Adventures of Winnie the Pooh. I personally thought the characters needed their universe of expansion. Personally I've would've wanted an animated series for both Pocahontas and Hunchback as well, due to my own childhood bias, but I doubt a series would've been relevant for Hunchback. Perhaps a series could've worked for Pocahontas, something akin to The Little Mermaid series, but we all know it's final reputation.

But certain things that I miss about Disney were certain toy franchises, as Disney Tiny Collection, Perfume Princesses and such. I also miss when Mattel was in charge of the Disney toys (but I've ranted about that priorly). Of course I miss the certain amount of Disney merchandise that featured every release of the nineties.

I was never a fan of the Timon and Pumbaa series. It didn't mesh well with the original film for me and I think Disney should have done a more faithful TV series like you suggested. I haven't seen The Lion Guard so maybe I would enjoy that but I've heard it's really more for kids.

I always felt Bambi could use a TV series as well although I imagine most of the artistry of the original film would be stripped. I thought when Disney was promoting their Disney Bunnies line that we would be getting a series on Thumper and his sisters, or at least short episodes like the Pixie Hollow ones. Pocahontas could have worked well in the vein of The Little Mermaid, especially since Disney released some books in the 90s that also dived deeper into village life both before and after the colonists arrived. They could more accurately portray the Powhatan people to redress the complaints they had received (which weren't unanimous anyway). As much as I love Hunchback, I'm not sure what else they could do with it in a TV series format and if the animation would be anything like the sequel, I think I'd prefer Disney not bother spinning it off. I'm not sure there would be enough to focus on Quasi, but I think a series centered on Esmeralda before the events of the movie could work. Especially if they tie some of her backstory from the original film in. This could keep focus on the other popular characters like Clopin and Frollo could make shadowy appearances from time to time, not to mention his presence would be felt throughout due to his persecution of the gypsies. Since the Parisians seemed to be aware of the bellringer of Notre Dame, Quasi could be alluded to as well this way.

The merchandise even for the new movies just doesn't have the same appeal. In the 90s, Zootopia would have gotten massive expansionary playsets of each of the different regions in Zootopia that would all connect together, plus figures for each of the characters.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:50 pm 
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Mooky wrote:
I too enjoyed some of the DTV sequels, and was sad to see them go just as their quality started to improve, especially as it would have been the only way to enjoy hand-drawn animation from Disney in recent years. That scrapped Hercules sequel sounded like real fun, and I also would have liked to see a "true" sequel to Tarzan and a sequel to Treasure Planet.

On a more specific front, I was always kind of annoyed that Beauty and the Beast never got the "2 sequels and a TV show" treatment like the rest of the Big 4 films did (don't mention Sing Me a Story with Belle, I think we all like to pretend it never happened). Belle's Magical World should have remained the TV show it was obviously meant to be, and a different third BatB movie should have been made in its place.

I'm also sad we never got a third theatrical outing for The Rescuers and Fantasia, and we most likely never will.

I also agree with JeanGreyForever about the newly animated song sequences -- that was a practice I hoped would continue after Beauty and the Beast proved it can be done right and the reinstatement of "If I Never Knew You" in Pocahontas. The Lion King definitely deserved a better song than "Morning Report" though. I would have liked to see "Music in Your Soup" put back in Snow White as it just needed to be colored (and it also fixes the Dopey and the soap continuity error), "To Be Free" animated for Aladdin instead of "Proud of Your Boy" (for as much as I LOVE that song, I'm not sure it fits the rest of the final movie's narrative with Aladdin's mother out of the picture), and perhaps "As Long as There's Moon" for HOND even though it kind of slows the plot down but it also explains the way Quasimodo places Esmeralda's and Phoebus' hands together later in the film.


I would have liked the Treasure Planet sequel and TV series. I never missed a Tarzan sequel though because of the TV series which did a good job of capturing the pulp fiction version of him plus all the references to characters from the books and movies. A proper Tarzan sequel wouldn't have been much different from a longer episode of the series, but I would have preferred that over the midquel we got which was just plain awful.

I know BATB: The Enchanted Christmas was at one point meant to be a full-fledged sequel set after the events of the first with Gaston's brother, Avenant, as the villain. I know Disney was afraid that no one was interested in the characters after their transformations, hence why all BATB related spin-offs were set during the time of the curse, but I think it severely constrained the franchise as well. Belle and Beast's relationship became watered down since there were only so many times that he could scream at her and she would forgive him after singing a sad song.

For The Lion King, I always wish we could have seen The Madness of King Scar/Be Prepared (Reprise) included instead of The Morning Report. There is an interesting fanmade project that animates a truncated version of that scene.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kGEz1zDGgY

I would have loved to have seen Music in Your Soup reinserted into Snow White as well. I was hoping they would do that for the 75th or 80th anniversary, but maybe one day we can expect it as part of the 100th anniversary. I also would like to see the scene with the witch and the cauldron reinserted, just because it's only a few seconds more so I never understand why it was deleted. I wouldn't mind the argument scene between Doc and Grumpy being fully colored as well because it shows the more manipulative side of Snow White, proving she isn't the bimbo that people claim her to be, not to mention it fixes the jarring transition from Snow White in the bedroom to racing down to ktichen.

To Be Free would be my choice for a new song added to Aladdin as well. I agree that I don't know if Proud of Your Boy would work very well, however I haven't seen the musical so perhaps it does. Even then though, the musical is heavily based on Ashman's version of the film so that doesn't necessarily mean that the song would work in the final film anyway. I also wouldn't mind if Jafar's Why Me? was used to replace the Prince Ali (Reprise) scene. I don't normally like scenes being replaced (like what The Morning Report did in The Lion King), however since Why Me? is basically just an extended version of the Prince Ali (Reprise), it doesn't bother me as much here and I'd like for Jafar to get a full-fledged villain song.

For Hunchback, my personal choice would be In a Place of Miracles. Although I also like As Long as There's a Moon, I prefer In a Place of Miracles because it gives Phoebus and Esmeralda a duet and dance together and Phoebus really doesn't get a song otherwise. Frankly, Clopin already gets various other songs to sing so he doesn't need another one. The fantasy sequence reminds me of a homage to the original concept for Someday My Prince Will Come and it shows us a softer side of Esmeralda's character, with her yearning for romance but never thinking it was possible in her life. The song also continues Quasi's journey since it also ends with him putting Esmeralda and Phoebus' hands together. I also like how Clopin's remark hints at Quasi's Romani heritage as well as Quasi imagining looking beautiful when staring at his reflection. It's bittersweet but it shows his optimism when he makes his toast to love and friendship. I also would love to see Someday added into the film like the way it is in the musical, with Esmeralda singing it as she walks to her funeral pyre. It's a beautiful song and I wonder if it might have win at the Oscars and Golden Globes if it had been kept since I think it has a more universal message than Out There and God Help the Outcasts.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:12 pm 
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Nandor wrote:
farerb wrote:
I disagree about adding the songs as well. I like Human Again in and out of itself, but adding it 10 years after the film and the score were completed really ruined the pacing of the film and made the score disjointed. For example, after each major song there's a playoff in the next scene, so what we got when they added Human Again was Something There -> Human Again -> Something There playoff. I'm sure if they had found a way to add it back then, it would have felt more organic to the film. The reason it worked with Pocahontas was because the song was cut really late in production and the score is filled with If I Never Knew You theme many times.

Agreed. The changes in animation also really stand out to me in Beauty. Mrs. Potts spout is just a tad too long, Cogsworth's glass panel doesn't reflect light that often during the rest of the film, Belle's eyes!, etc. I hate how they added yet another version of Belle to the film. And why did they change the book to Romeo and Juliette? That's a bit too on the nose... Also agreed the film doesn't flow too well with Something There -> Human Again -> Beauty and the Beast.

I usually watch Beauty and the Beast without Human Again. However, I refuse to buy Pocahontas on Blu-Ray so long as If I Never Knew You isn't reinstated. The Morning Report was a mess all around. Should've been Endless Night if you ask me.
I'd agree on To Be Free. Not perfect by any means, But Lea Salonga needs more songs ;)
I read a rumour around the time of the Little Mermaid Platinum release about such a newly animated song for Triton, The Sun Only Shines On Land. I've never seen it mentioned since, does it ring a bell to anyone?

The animation errors didn't bother me very much since the original film is already fraught with inconsistencies so piling a few more on doesn't make that big of a difference, although Belle's eyes definitely needed to be reduced. They look more like Jasmine's eyes than her own there. I know King Arthur was the book that they read in the Broadway musical but I can't remember what book they read in the original deleted Human Again song. I do think King Arthur worked better just because it fit more with the stories of magic spells and daring sword fights that she talks about at the beginning of the film. The songs do pile on one after another although I suppose that was bound to happen considering that Something There replaced Human Again and all the Something There scenes (teaching the Beast how to eat, going out in the snow) were originally part of Human Again alongside the book reading scene.

Endless Night is another gorgeous song that I would have preferred to see in The Lion King. Shadowlands as well since Nala drops out of the narrative by that point in the film and this would check back in with her. He Lives in You at least gets to make an appearance in the sequel.

I've read about The Sun Only Shines On Land in this forum as well but I'm not sure if it was just a rumor and if there was actual credence to the song's inclusion. I wonder if maybe it was also some Broadway musical concept song, such as perhaps a precursor to If Only. Although I've heard that Disney could only add new sequences to their CAPS films (excluding any scrapped animated sequences like the Snow White ones) so maybe they never would have been able to add anything to The Little Mermaid anyway if that is true.

DisneyFreak5282 wrote:
I also feel as if Disney missed the boat on giving their animated shows proper home video releases. Shows like Aladdin and The Little Mermaid could've benefitted from a complete series DVD release around the time their Platinum Edition DVDs came out, even if they were available for a limited time only. Even Winnie the Pooh! It's frustrating to know the only official releases of these shows are on VHS.

I've been waiting for this for a long time. I remember when then Platinum Edition for The Little Mermaid came out, there were rumors of a DVD called The Little Mermaid: Reflections being released, that would feature all the episodes from the series. Both the Aladdin and Little Mermaid series were still popular in the early 2000s so it would have made sense to release them back then. At least Disney has put all The Little Mermaid episodes on their streaming app now. I hope Aladdin, Winnie the Pooh, Lilo & Stitch, and Tarzan, to name a few, will be added one day as well. Although I'm not even sure if Disney's loss of rights to Tarzan allow them to broadcast the series anymore.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:43 pm 
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Quote:
Disney in the '90s rocked! It was truly a great time to be a Disney fan

Of course it was. Being at the same age group through that time, it was certainly a great time to be a Disney fan (which was one of the main reasons of why I never wanted to grow up :P). Yet my interest for Disney also stems from Walt's era, actually. Uptil the age of ten, I always worshiped old Disney more than the newer ones, mainly because their sheer innocence spoke to me more. Yet when I learned to grew to love newer Disney, it was of course a breakthrough for me and I started to appreciate newer Disney more.
Perhaps Disney was quite derivative through the nineties, but their movies and products were mostly done with real flair and heart. They were good because they were quite Disneyesque and the fact that Disney made Disneyesque products made Disney great, I loved the fact that each release was launched with so much merchandise and were pretty much events. Even the other studios who tried hard to copy Disney managed to copy the true Disney flair and grandness (which is evident in The Swan Princess and Anastasia, though I know the former is less popular than the latter).

While that being said, I miss when the Disney formula wasn't only associated with the Princess formula. That even the non-Princess movies were musicals and followed the same patterns, even the ones with a male protagonist.

I also liked the animated shows that were made in the eighties and nineties. They were quite fun and enjoyable.



Sotiris wrote:
I agree with everything with said Mooky and feel the same way.

So you like the DTV sequels? Don't take this the wrong way, cause I don't mind if you actually do.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:04 pm 
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DisneyFan09 wrote:
So you like the DTV sequels? Don't take this the wrong way, cause I don't mind if you actually do.

I have come to appreciate them more nowadays. My biggest pet peeve about them was their low-quality animation which used to really bother and frustrate me. However, after experiencing the digital 2D animation of today, I now find them decent-looking in comparison and wish animation still looked liked that. Let's face it, Disney's still making DTV sequels; they just premiere on TV instead of on DVD. Tangled Before Ever After, Big Hero 6: Baymax Returns, The Lion Guard: Return of the Roar etc. look worse than any of the DTV projects Disney ever made and yet people are eating them up while still criticizing the DTV sequels of the past which I find unfair, biased, and nonsensical.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:41 am 
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The reason the DTV's are criticized is because they are full-length feature sequels to the films and seen as supposed to have the same quality and prestige. TV shows are not "supposed" to have that at least in the very sense of not being the same as a full-length feature film. Basically, they are not supposed to be the same as a film, they are supposed to have TV quality.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:57 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
The reason the DTV's are criticized is because they are full-length feature sequels to the films and seen as supposed to have the same quality and prestige. TV shows are not "supposed" to have that at least in the very sense of not being the same as a full-length feature film. Basically, they are not supposed to be the same as a film, they are supposed to have TV quality.

I'm not buying that. Plenty of the DTV sequels were part of cancelled TV series such as Cinderella II, Atlantis II, Belle's Magical World while others served as pilots or series finales to TV shows such as The Return of Jafar, Aladdin and the King of Thieves, Stitch! The Movie, Leroy & Stitch etc. Fans know that and yet continue to apply different standards to these movies as opposed to the TV sequel films of today. Also, if people can differentiate between a theatrical and a TV production and have lower expectations for the latter, they can do that same for a DTV production.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:19 am 
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Wait. Ok but like...you don't think a full-length feature sequel should be treated differently than a TV show? And I must say the TV shows being recycled as dtv films is the worst thing they could do!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:57 am 
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farerb wrote:
I disagree about adding the songs as well. I like Human Again in and out of itself, but adding it 10 years after the film and the score were completed really ruined the pacing of the film and made the score disjointed. For example, after each major song there's a playoff in the next scene, so what we got when they added Human Again was Something There -> Human Again -> Something There playoff. I'm sure if they had found a way to add it back then, it would have felt more organic to the film. The reason it worked with Pocahontas was because the song was cut really late in production and the score is filled with If I Never Knew You theme many times.
Nandor wrote:
Agreed. The changes in animation also really stand out to me in Beauty. Mrs. Potts spout is just a tad too long, Cogsworth's glass panel doesn't reflect light that often during the rest of the film, Belle's eyes!, etc. I hate how they added yet another version of Belle to the film. And why did they change the book to Romeo and Juliette? That's a bit too on the nose... Also agreed the film doesn't flow too well with Something There -> Human Again -> Beauty and the Beast.
JeanGreyForever wrote:
The animation errors didn't bother me very much since the original film is already fraught with inconsistencies so piling a few more on doesn't make that big of a difference, although Belle's eyes definitely needed to be reduced. They look more like Jasmine's eyes than her own there. I know King Arthur was the book that they read in the Broadway musical but I can't remember what book they read in the original deleted Human Again song. I do think King Arthur worked better just because it fit more with the stories of magic spells and daring sword fights that she talks about at the beginning of the film. The songs do pile on one after another although I suppose that was bound to happen considering that Something There replaced Human Again and all the Something There scenes (teaching the Beast how to eat, going out in the snow) were originally part of Human Again alongside the book reading scene.

I agree it can be too much to have three songs so close in succession (Frozen had the same issue with "Do You Want to Build a Snowman?", "For the First Time in Forever" and "Love is an Open Door" AND then also "Let It Go" being piled one on top of another.), but they flow into each other well and they're great songs on top of that so I don't mind. Especially since I feel the lyrical themes of "Something There" and "Beauty and the Beast" are similar, so having "Human Again" in-between them keeps things from being repetitive. I also think the original playoff of "Something There" works for "Human Again" as well, as the castle is being cleaned up and decorated for the big ballroom sequence, and so is the Beast just minutes afterwards. The new animation is a bit wonky compared to the original, true, and them reading Romeo & Juliet is a bit of a cliché, but I can overlook the inconsistencies and I really enjoy the way Belle and the Beast are interacting in that scene.

farerb wrote:
I hated how the Beast didn't know how to read. He's a nobleman, he should know how to read.

See, I really liked that. He did know how to read though, he just had difficulties with it. I doubt it was the original intention, but I assumed it was because he was becoming progressively more beast-like, so forgetting how to read was just another way to show the consequences of the curse. He also communicated with roars and grunts with the castle staff throughout the movie, so him not being able to read well wasn't that far off.

farerb wrote:
I disagree about DTV sequels. I thought they were unnecessary, especially the BatB ones, it was a self contained story (unlike the rest which you can play either with what happened before or what happened after), with only one conflict which can't be overplayed like how they did with the sequels. Belle and the Beaast can't argue about stupid things (like a bird) over and over, and the Beast can't repeatedly learn not to be a jerk all the time, that's redundant and abusive.
JeanGreyForever wrote:
I know BATB: The Enchanted Christmas was at one point meant to be a full-fledged sequel set after the events of the first with Gaston's brother, Avenant, as the villain. I know Disney was afraid that no one was interested in the characters after their transformations, hence why all BATB related spin-offs were set during the time of the curse, but I think it severely constrained the franchise as well. Belle and Beast's relationship became watered down since there were only so many times that he could scream at her and she would forgive him after singing a sad song.

Ugh, I would have hated that. I loathe when they bring out never-before-seen-or-mentioned siblings or relatives and we have to pretend they were there off-screen during the events of original films (a bunch of Disney and non-Disney sequels did that). They could have gotten around those limitations by doing what Swan Princess sequels did: have the third BatB see the return of the curse, even more severe than the last one, cast by a new villain this time, have the prince revert to the Beast (but not the rest of the castle staff), lose every trace of his intelligence and humanity and be used as the villain's pawn or a true secondary villain, and the rest of the plot would see the characters trying to save him. The Enchanted Christmas was really dark in places, so this third movie could have continued the same pattern. The "moral lesson of the week" approach could have been used for the BatB TV show instead -- basically Belle's Magical World but with several additional episodes.
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DisneyFan09 wrote:
So you like the DTV sequels? Don't take this the wrong way, cause I don't mind if you actually do.

I have come to appreciate them more nowadays. My biggest pet peeve about them was their low-quality animation which used to really bother and frustrate me. However, after experiencing the digital 2D animation of today, I now find them decent-looking in comparison and wish animation still looked liked that. Let's face it, Disney's still making DTV sequels; they just premier on TV instead on DVD. Tangled Before Ever After, Big Hero 6: Baymax Returns, The Lion Guard: Return of the Roar etc. look worse than any of the DTV projects Disney ever made and yet people are eating them up while still criticizing the DTV sequels of the past which I find unfair, biased, and nonsensical.

Exactly. Of course they range from mediocre to terrible when compared to the originals and most of the plots are rehashed, but it was the only chance of seeing familiar characters in new adventures and new settings. Most of the time characters were also true to their original incarnations and sometimes even more developed (Anastasia in Cinderella II and Cinderella III, and Prince Charming in Cinderella III). Aladdin sequels were truly wonderful for what they were and how they came to be, and if it weren't for inferior animation they could be placed comfortably next to the original film. Granted, it could also be that the lack of new hand-drawn animation from Disney makes me see them through nostalgia-colored glass, but right now, I'd rather have DTV sequels than, say, this never-ending stream of live-action remakes or all those meta cameos in Wreck-It Ralph 2. At least DTVs didn't pretend they had some artistic motives rather than being obvious cash grabs, corporate promotion and fan service.

I forgot to write this earlier, but another way we could have had DTVs (and hand-drawn animation!) continue was through movies like Mickey, Donald, Goofy: The Three Musketeers. That was really fun and I don't know why DisneyToon never attempted anything similar. It also continued the tradition of Mickey's Christmas Carol and The Prince and the Pauper. Stories like The Wizard of Oz, The Man in the Iron Mask, Tom Sawyer, Gulliver's Travels and Treasure Island could all have been adapted for this format.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:45 am 
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By the way, does anyone even know how big was the budget for a dvd sequel? Especially at the end of the line, with movies like Cinderella 3, Ariel's Beginning or Brother Bear 2? And were they animated by Disney or was animation outsourced?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:55 am 
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Sotiris wrote:
I have come to appreciate them more nowadays. My biggest pet peeve about them was their low-quality animation which used to really bother and frustrate me. However, after experiencing the digital 2D animation of today, I now find them decent-looking in comparison and wish animation still looked liked that.

Fair enough.

Personally, I didn't loathe them as passionately as the rest of the Disney fanbase did. As the matter of fact, some of those films had their own perks. Yet no matter what, it was hard to dismiss that they could be awful at their very worst and when they were becoming regular business, they were becoming just worse and worse. The low quality of the animation could be frustrating, yet what was worse was their skimpy plotlines and recycling tropes (that were even more derivative than what was done on the canon films).

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Let's face it, Disney's still making DTV sequels; they just premier on TV instead of on DVD. Tangled Before Ever After, Big Hero 6: Baymax Returns, The Lion Guard: Return of the Roar etc. look worse than any of the DTV projects Disney ever made and yet people are eating them up while still criticizing the DTV sequels of the past which I find unfair, biased, and nonsensical.

That's true, but don't tell the purists that :P Personally I detest the style for Tangled Before Ever After. The style for The Lion Guard is at least more accepting, but it still pales compared to the old hand drawn animation for television.

Mooky wrote:
Exactly. Of course they range from mediocre to terrible when compared to the originals and most of the plots are rehashed, but it was the only chance of seeing familiar characters in new adventures and new settings

Well said. That's was my main con for actually watching the DTV sequels (which is one of the reasons why I don't loathe Hunchback II, because the characterizations from the previous movie are so strong, regardless of it's slim plotline), yet we also had the TV series to serve that mold. Fortunately. And let's not forget that Simba's Pride has a bigger ranking than the regular DTV cheapquel, despite that it's rather flawed and has the same problems that serve the regular DTV cheapquel.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:41 am 
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Raf wrote:
By the way, does anyone even know how big was the budget for a dvd sequel? Especially at the end of the line, with movies like Cinderella 3, Ariel's Beginning or Brother Bear 2? And were they animated by Disney or was animation outsourced?

The Return of Jafar was produced for $3.5 million (not adjusted for inflation) while the average sequel (that wasn't a compilation of a cancelled TV show) cost about $10-15 million. These numbers are for the 2D movies; the CG ones cost about $30-35 million.

Most of them were off-shored to overseas studios set up by Disney. Specifically, they were primarily animated at one or more of the following studios: Walt Disney Animation (Canada), Walt Disney Animation (Australia), Walt Disney Animation (France), and Walt Disney Animation (Japan). When Disney shut these studios down, they outsourced the remaining 2D projects in production (Ariel's Beginning, Enchanted Tales) to Toon City Animation in the Philippines. The CG ones (Tinker Bell, Planes) were outsourced to Prana Studios in India.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:58 am 
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I personally have some guilty pleasures: Return of Jafar & King of thieves...those songs, though not at all great , are with me still. Lilo & Stitch 2 as well as Brother Bear 2 actually had story to tell...To this day I dont understand why Patt Carol was wasted on the abomination that is TLM 2 instead of telling a proper Ursula origin story...101 dalmatians 2 had some really nice animation...though Cruella was very poorly executed..Peter Pan 2 had its merits

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:32 am 
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Well, to give some other thoughts of mine.

I missed when the Art/Making of-books were more varied. Before they came in different sizes and shapes. Now they're basically following the same mold, of having the same setup and designs and I'm sick of it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:03 pm 
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DisneyFan09 wrote:
Well, to give some other thoughts of mine.

I missed when the Art/Making of-books were more varied. Before they came in different sizes and shapes. Now they're basically following the same mold, of having the same setup and designs and I'm sick of it.

As a collector of those books I totally agree...I especially miss the oversized editions that came with a slipcase

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