DVDizzy.com

Home | Reviews | Schedule | Cover Art | Search The Site
DVDizzy.com Top Stories:

It is currently Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:38 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 686 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 ... 35  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:45 pm 
Offline
Platinum Edition
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:06 am
Posts: 15417
D82 wrote:
Is Scar supposed to be an albino lion as it was rumored some time ago, or are albino lions whiter?

He doesn't look albino to me. Just a weak, sickly lion with washed out fur.

_________________
ImageImageImageImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:53 pm 
Offline
Walt Disney Treasure

Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:07 pm
Posts: 3567
Location: Spain
I googled "albino lion" and some of them didn't look completely white, but I guess you're right. If he was albino, they would've made it more evident in his design.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:18 pm 
Offline
Platinum Edition
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:17 pm
Posts: 6859
If he was albino he wouldn't be Scar, he'd be Kimba rotfl rotfl rotfl

_________________
Want to Hear How I met Roy E. Disney in 2003? Click the link Below

http://fromscreentotheme.com/ThursdayTr ... isney.aspx


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:33 am 
Offline
Platinum Edition
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:02 am
Posts: 11145
Location: America
Kyle wrote:
nomad2010 wrote:
I think people aren’t realizing that there was backlash about Scar being dark colored and more feminine in his characteristics in the first place. This move makes sense to me from a “Disney trying to be PC” standpoint. They’re gonna get backlash if the only dark colored, non-straight acting character is the villain, and they’re gonna get backlash for changing him to be light colored and masculine. There’s no winning in Twitter culture..

So...why are they trying again then? The trope has existed since the beginning of story telling probably, because it works.

If you mean making a character have a darker presence in hair and clothes, you would be right and it would be fine. But it doesn"t sound like you are. What you are saying sounds racist and homophobic.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:46 pm 
Offline
Walt Disney Treasure
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:47 pm
Posts: 3024
Racist and homophobic? I'm talking about a lion here, so yeah, the darker appearance. I happen to not agree with the whole gay coding thing as a concept. As in I don't think it happens, or if it does, not that much. I certainly never saw scar as gay (or taking on their traits), he's just...british or something. I'm just saying use what works from a story telling perspective, not try to win a twitter war that cannot be won.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:17 pm 
Offline
Platinum Edition
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:06 am
Posts: 15417
Kyle wrote:
I happen to not agree with the whole gay coding thing as a concept. As in I don't think it happens, or if it does, not that much. I certainly never saw scar as gay (or taking on their traits), he's just...British or something.

I don't think gay coding is intentional in Disney's case. Animated villains due to their very nature and function in the story are simply allowed to be more theatrical, campy, and over-the-top. The fact they usually have more caricatured or exaggerated design as opposed to the leads also facilitates and encourages broader performances. Ursula was based on Divine so that's possibly where those perceived gay traits came from and Jafar and Scar were designed and animated by Andreas Deja who may unconsciously inserted certain mannerisms that could be considered feminine. Voice actors and reference models also influence the look and performance of the characters. While I don't want to invalidate people's beliefs in regards to gay coding and Disney, it's something that's subjective and ambiguous. It shouldn't be treated as an indisputable fact.

_________________
ImageImageImageImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:31 pm 
Offline
Platinum Edition
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:29 pm
Posts: 5213
Andreas Deja himself is gay so I really doubt he would portray Jafar and Scar in a homophobic manner. Anyway, most of Disney's male villains are queer-coded. Besides the aforementioned two, Ratigan, Gaston, Ratcliffe, and Hades come to mind.

_________________
ImageImage
We’re a dyad in the Force. Two that are one.
"I offered you my hand once. You wanted to take it." - Kylo Ren
"I did want to take your hand. Ben's hand." - Rey


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:11 pm 
Offline
Platinum Edition
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:06 am
Posts: 15417
JeanGreyForever wrote:
Andreas Deja himself is gay so I really doubt he would portray Jafar and Scar in a homophobic manner.

Andreas has gone on record saying he doesn't consider Scar or Jafar to be gay and never planned or intended to portray them as such. I feel a lot of accusations about gay-coded Disney villains are more indicative of the audience's stereotypical beliefs and perceptions about gay people than any nefarious intend by Disney. Claiming a character is gay solely because they're even a tiny bit theatrical or fun seems homophobic to me. :shrug:

JeanGreyForever wrote:
Anyway, most of Disney's male villains are queer-coded.

You should avoid using that term since it's still considered a slur by people in the gay community.

_________________
ImageImageImageImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:53 pm 
Offline
Platinum Edition
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:29 pm
Posts: 5213
Sotiris wrote:
Andreas has gone on record saying he doesn't consider Scar or Jafar to be gay and never planned or intended to portray them as such. I feel a lot of accusations about gay-coded Disney villains are more indicative of the audience's stereotypical beliefs and perceptions about gay people than any nefarious intend by Disney. Claiming a character is gay solely because they're even a tiny bit theatrical or fun seems homophobic to me. :shrug:

Not to mention Jafar indicates an attraction to Jasmine and in the deleted scenes, Scar is interested in making Nala his bride.

Sotiris wrote:
You should avoid using that term since it's still considered a slur by people in the gay community.

What term is considered a slur?

_________________
ImageImage
We’re a dyad in the Force. Two that are one.
"I offered you my hand once. You wanted to take it." - Kylo Ren
"I did want to take your hand. Ben's hand." - Rey


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:11 pm 
Offline
Walt Disney Treasure
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:53 pm
Posts: 3514
JeanGreyForever wrote:
Andreas Deja himself is gay so I really doubt he would portray Jafar and Scar in a homophobic manner. Anyway, most of Disney's male villains are queer-coded. Besides the aforementioned two, Ratigan, Gaston, Ratcliffe, and Hades come to mind.


Really? Gaston was obviously interested in making Belle his wife and Hades was in a way attracted (?) to Megara.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:17 pm 
Offline
Platinum Edition
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:06 am
Posts: 15417
JeanGreyForever wrote:
Not to mention Jafar indicates an attraction to Jasmine and in the deleted scenes, Scar is interested in making Nala his bride.

The whole thing seems to me like another excuse to vilify and attack Disney. Like how people love to claim X or Y female character is sexist or unfeminist or whatnot. Hating Disney of the past seem to be so popular and "progressive" nowadays.

JeanGreyForever wrote:
What term is considered a slur?

I was referring to the term "queer". I know a lot of people, including academic and journalistic publications have adopted the term but there's a fast-increasing movement claiming that any slur can only be re-appropriated and reclaimed on a personal, individual level and using a slur as a blanket term to refer to the entire LGBT community is not OK.

_________________
ImageImageImageImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:10 am 
Offline
Platinum Edition
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:02 am
Posts: 11145
Location: America
I am sorry to say Kyle is racist or homophobic, but I am not clear on what he is saying. Villains should not have darker skin or male villains have feminine features just to make them more villainous. That is wrong. I'm not saying more dramatic or theatrical features is wrong, but purposely putting more feminine or gay features in to make a male villainous is wrong. I guess darker fur is arguable...

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:54 am 
Offline
Limited Edition
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 4:09 pm
Posts: 1965
DisneyJedi wrote:
JeanGreyForever wrote:
Andreas Deja himself is gay so I really doubt he would portray Jafar and Scar in a homophobic manner. Anyway, most of Disney's male villains are queer-coded. Besides the aforementioned two, Ratigan, Gaston, Ratcliffe, and Hades come to mind.


Really? Gaston was obviously interested in making Belle his wife and Hades was in a way attracted (?) to Megara.


Gaston deasn't want Belle because he's attracted to her. He's not sexually interested in her or any other woman.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:05 am 
Offline
Walt Disney Treasure
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:53 pm
Posts: 3514
farerb wrote:
DisneyJedi wrote:
JeanGreyForever wrote:
Andreas Deja himself is gay so I really doubt he would portray Jafar and Scar in a homophobic manner. Anyway, most of Disney's male villains are queer-coded. Besides the aforementioned two, Ratigan, Gaston, Ratcliffe, and Hades come to mind.


Really? Gaston was obviously interested in making Belle his wife and Hades was in a way attracted (?) to Megara.


Gaston deasn't want Belle because he's attracted to her. He's not sexually interested in her or any other woman.


... did you watch the movie? :|

He stated flat out in the film he wanted to marry Belle, wanted to have six or seven sons with her (telling that directly to Belle) and even wanted to kill the Beast so he could have her all to himself.

Also, in the Broadway show, he told the Bimbettes he’d still date them even when married to Belle (implied affairs)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:33 am 
Offline
Limited Edition
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 4:09 pm
Posts: 1965
DisneyJedi wrote:

... did you watch the movie? :|

He stated flat out in the film he wanted to marry Belle, wanted to have six or seven sons with her (telling that directly to Belle) and even wanted to kill the Beast so he could have her all to himself.

Also, in the Broadway show, he told the Bimbettes he’d still date them even when married to Belle (implied affairs)


I don't care about the Broadway show.
Gaston wants the normative life according to his society, meanig having a little wife and kids and dogs. That doesn't explain why he hasn't shown any sexual attraction to her or any other women, and please don't tell me it's because he respects women and saves himself for his one true love, a guy like Gaston would take sexual advantage of any woman who'd show slight interest in him. I mean compare him to Frollo - Frollo is insane with sexual attraction towards Esmeralda, Gaston is not. Kiiling the beast has to do more with pride. It is also rumored that Ashman got HIV from someone like Gaston and projected that guy into the character.

And please don't tell me stuff like "did you watch the movie?". It's rude, Beauty and the Beast is my favorite film and Gaston being gay is a valid interpretation.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:24 am 
Offline
Walt Disney Treasure
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:47 pm
Posts: 3024
Disney Duster wrote:
I am sorry to say Kyle is racist or homophobic, but I am not clear on what he is saying. Villains should not have darker skin or male villains have feminine features just to make them more villainous. That is wrong. I'm not saying more dramatic or theatrical features is wrong, but purposely putting more feminine or gay features in to make a male villainous is wrong. I guess darker fur is arguable...


Its about design tropes. They work, they will continue to work. They get the point across quickly. They are especially popular in video games. Sonic and shadow, pit and dark pit, samus and dark samus. In the world of art/entertainment, Dark=evil. They can of course be broken and be effective (white storm troopers inside a white walled spaceship dispite being the bad guys) but the tropes are the default, pc police be damned.

As for the feminine thing, really a villain can be masculine or feminine, but what I think you guys are seeing as feminine is really just weakness. Characters like scar appear weak/underfed. It sorta gives them a reason to lust for power. In jafars case, he flips to the opposite direction near the end when he becomes this super muscly character. Scar swiming at the shallow end of the gene pool gives him a sense of jealousy of his macho brother.

And people thinking Gaston as gay in any sense, give me a break. His trope is to take every masculine trait and amplify it to the point of absurdity. He's toxic masculinity personified, that's why Belle is so turned off by him. Any other take on him is bad fan fiction.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:04 am 
Offline
Platinum Edition
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:02 am
Posts: 11145
Location: America
Yes, some dark physical traits is ok to show inner darkness and evil. Darker skin to show evil, NO, that is not ok. Darker fur? Sure, fine, whatever.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:49 am 
Offline
Platinum Edition
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:29 pm
Posts: 5213
Sotiris wrote:
JeanGreyForever wrote:
What term is considered a slur?

I was referring to the term "queer". I know a lot of people, including academic and journalistic publications have adopted the term but there's a fast-increasing movement claiming that any slur can only be re-appropriated and reclaimed on a personal, individual level and using a slur as a blanket term to refer to the entire LGBT community is not OK.

Ah, I see. Funny enough, I'm not fond of the word myself and still prefer LGBT over LGBTQ but I didn't know any other way to word "queer-coding." Most gay people I know use that word to describe themselves and even in my college classes, the term is used by our professors. However, like I said, I don't see the appeal because at its core, the word means odd or weird, and I don't see how being gay can be normalized when it has become synonymous with a word that suggests something out of the ordinary.

farerb wrote:
Gaston wants the normative life according to his society, meanig having a little wife and kids and dogs. That doesn't explain why he hasn't shown any sexual attraction to her or any other women, and please don't tell me it's because he respects women and saves himself for his one true love, a guy like Gaston would take sexual advantage of any woman who'd show slight interest in him. I mean compare him to Frollo - Frollo is insane with sexual attraction towards Esmeralda, Gaston is not. Kiiling the beast has to do more with pride. It is also rumored that Ashman got HIV from someone like Gaston and projected that guy into the character.

This isn't my personal interpretation of the character, but I can definitely see it justified from how he acts in the film. I think the live-action film also fed this theory because Luke Evans is gay himself and of course, there's the whole LeFou business. While I don't think Gaston is gay, I also don't think he showed much of an attraction to anyone from the fairer sex. He really does seem more interested in his own self-image which means a pretty wife and multiple children according to society. Belle is just a prop to boost his bravado and masculinity but he doesn't have any sexual attraction to her it seems, since all his interest in her is the fact that she's regarded as the most beautiful woman in town.

_________________
ImageImage
We’re a dyad in the Force. Two that are one.
"I offered you my hand once. You wanted to take it." - Kylo Ren
"I did want to take your hand. Ben's hand." - Rey


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:21 am 
Offline
Platinum Edition
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:02 am
Posts: 11145
Location: America
Well he thought she was "gorgeous" and he "fell" for her. So I see that as the closest thing to sexual attraction that a Disney film would allow.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:59 am 
Offline
Walt Disney Treasure
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:47 pm
Posts: 3024
JeanGreyForever wrote:
Sotiris wrote:
I don't see the appeal because at its core, the word means odd or weird, and I don't see how being gay can be normalized when it has become synonymous with a word that suggests something out of the ordinary.
The word fits just fine, being gay is out of the ordinary, biologically, socially, etc, despite in recent decades more coming out. The vast majority of people are still straight. It used to be more of a slur, but I think in modern times the word does not carry the negative association it once did.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 686 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 ... 35  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group