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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:30 pm 
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Sotiris wrote:
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Miranda and Menken will write the music together.

Oh, hell no! :angry: Mermaid is Menken's baby. He's perfectly capable of writing new music on his own. He's doing just that for the live-action BatB as we speak! This is unacceptable! :headshake: Miranda has like a gazillion projects in the works. Why does he need to force himself to an iconic musical and 'interfere' with someone else's work? Ugh.


Lol Alan Menken hardly writes his lyrics though. I doubt Miranda is forcing himself into this. I'm excited!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:34 pm 
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I've read many articles on this, and NOT ONE mentions Miranda writing new music for it. He's named because he's producing it. Sure they may add a few songs to flesh it out, but as of now there's no mention of new music, even in that Broadway world article. Simply producing.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:37 pm 
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Sotiris wrote:
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Miranda and Menken will write the music together.

Oh, hell no! :angry: Mermaid is Menken's baby. He's perfectly capable of writing new music on his own. He's doing just that for the live-action BatB as we speak! This is unacceptable! :headshake: Miranda has like a gazillion projects in the works. Why does he need to force himself to an iconic musical and 'interfere' with someone else's work? Ugh.


Wow, you really don't like new music writers for Disney, don't you? (Not to be snarky.) Plus, Menken and Miranda did a "Ham-for-Ham" together and they loved each other's company, so it doesn't surprise me. If Menken approves of Miranda and I won't be surprised if Menken approached him, Miranda isn't forcing himself and interfering.

I'm extremely iffy about these "remixes" of the songs, but it looks like Menken knows what he's doing. Miranda is a greatest artist and a genuinely great guy, so I'm super happy for him.

Besides, lyric-writing isn't errrrm....really Menken's strongest suit.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVADjGMBnMs[/youtube]


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:45 pm 
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I don't have a problem if Miranda only writes the lyrics (although I do believe it's unfair to Glenn Slater) or is involved in some other capacity with the project but that doesn't seem to be the case. Every article is reporting that he'll co-write the music (which means the music of the new songs and/or the new score). There's no mention of him being the new lyricist. I hope it's just a misunderstanding.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:55 pm 
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If he is co-writing the music, that's absolutely ridiculous. **** Disney, seriously. It's one thing to replace him on TP&TF with Randy Newman FFS, put him on Tangled where the filmmakers obviously did not want a musical, banish him from the studio, and not send in anything from Galavant to get an Emmy, but forcing someone to intrude on a musical he created with Ashman 27 years ago crosses the line. (And before we get the Disney positivity police blaring full force, I'm not buying any BS that Menken would ask for help on TLM, much less from someone whose sound is nothing like the film). Jesus, what did Menken do to this company. Did he run over Lasseter's foot or kick Iger in the balls?

disneyprincess11 wrote:
Wow, you really don't like new music writers for Disney, don't you?

What are you talking about? We're not discussing Moana, we're discussing a soundtrack that Menken already created years prior. Disliking the fact that someone is being foisted on him for a soundtrack he already created himself has nothing to do with new music writers at Disney.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:22 pm 
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Guys, this is like Mencken teaming up with Ashman, Zipper, Schwartz, and Slate. Let's not overthink this.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:31 pm 
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I knew it! I knew this live action remake would be announced!

And it would be tempting to claim that teaming up with Miranda is somewhat synergy, due to him being on another Musker/Clements project that is setted on the Ocean.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:52 pm 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
. It's one thing to replace him on TP&TF with Randy Newman FFS, put him on Tangled where the filmmakers obviously did not want a musical, banish him from the studio, and not send in anything from Galavant to get an Emmy, but forcing someone to intrude on a musical he created with Ashman 27 years ago crosses the line.


You say that as if Menken hadn't let someone "intrude" on Ashman's work already. There was definitely no way that Glen Slater could fill Howard Ashman's shoes, and so The Little Mermaid Broadway production got poor reviews for its score. It's easy to see why Disney would want to try someone else for the new movie, especially a person who is well-known by the public for writing clever lyrics (although I do have to admit that I really do like Her Voice and see it as a definite positive addition to the story, that's the only standout good thing I really have to say about Glen Slater's lyrics for the stage production. Compared to Ashman's original work, Slater's generic lyrics fell flat. Anyways, Hamilton's lyrics have impressed me far, far more than anything Glen Slater's name is attached to.)

Also, if it isn't obvious, I do think that Miranda's involvement is good news, whatever his involvement may be. Of course Menken wasn't going to write the lyrics by himself, and he wouldn't bring Slater on just to rehash the Broadway production (or to force Slater to write completely new songs for moments that he already wrote songs for). Also, Alan Menken is 67 years old, yet he's nowhere near retirement since he's still getting lots of work from Disney and non-Disney companies alike. The man isn't a superhuman. It's not surprising to me that he would recruit a capable person to help co-write songs (not only lyrics, but score as well) with him.

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Last edited by Tangled on Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:10 pm 
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Sotiris wrote:
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Miranda and Menken will write the music together.

Oh, hell no! :angry: Mermaid is Menken's baby. He's perfectly capable of writing new music on his own. He's doing just that for the live-action BatB as we speak! This is unacceptable! :headshake: Miranda has like a gazillion projects in the works. Why does he need to force himself to an iconic musical and 'interfere' with someone else's work? Ugh.

I also find it disrespectful to Alan Menken. But I guess it could have been worse; they could've hired only Lin-Manuel Miranda for the project. I hope he's only doing the lyrics.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:18 pm 
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disneyprincess11 wrote:
Besides, lyric-writing isn't errrrm....really Menken's strongest suit.

I wasn't suggesting Menken to write the lyrics for the new songs. Every article reporting the news, including the source, is saying that Miranda will be co-writing the music, not co-writing the songs or that he's the lyricist. If that's what they meant, I'm fine with it. But the way it was phrased is suspicious. I hope I'm wrong about this.

By the way, the lyrics for Love Can't Be Denied were written by Glenn Slater, not Menken. If you want to hear some of Menken's work as a lyricist, try the songs Pink Fish, The Measure of a Man, Count On Me, and To Be Free. He wrote the lyrics for many of his projects early in his career but unfortunately there isn't a recording available for most of them.

Not to influence your judgement but Lehman Engel thought Menken was a great lyricist while NY Times critic Mel Gussow said that "...his lyrics have an acerbity approaching Stephen Sondheim's." :)

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:32 pm 
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@Tangled: I'm sorry, you missed the boat. We were not talking about him as a possible lyricist. And, no, I don't believe Menken would choose to work with him--it's obvious Glenn Slater would be working with him if Menken actually had any choice in the matter. And while Miranda might be okay as a lyricist, no, I don't think the idea of him helping to create the music for this is good news.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:47 pm 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
If he is co-writing the music, that's absolutely ridiculous.

I agree with everything you've said. You expressed how I feel perfectly! :up:

Disney's Divinity wrote:
And, no, I don't believe Menken would choose to work with him--it's obvious Glenn Slater would be working with him if Menken actually had any choice in the matter.

That's true. Whenever Menken is given a choice he always brings on Slater as his lyricist.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:10 pm 
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If Miranda write lyrics for a few new songs (or if he and Menken work together on both lyrics/music for a few new songs) and/or acts as a producer or story guy on this movie I am okay with that. But if he is meant to be co-composing the movie score for this movie, then that's a new low for Disney's shitty treatment of Alan Menken these past years. And they have done a lot to show that they do not think to fondly of him.

Been reading some articles saying the movie will feature most of/several/some of the songs from the 1989 animated classic. This better not be the case. The movie better feature every single song from the movie! If they find room for new songs, then there sure should be enough room for keeping all the classic Menken/Ashman songs.

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Last edited by Prince Edward on Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:13 pm 
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The reports are confusing. If Miranda is co-writing the score with Menken, I agree, not cool. But if Miranda is replacing Slater as lyricist, there's no universe, even the DVDizzy universe, where that should be construed as bad news. Slater is a poor lyricist. Miranda, however, is a Pulitzer Prize winner and the hottest name in town (for good reason), if he's collaborating with Alan Menken on some new songs we may be in for the best Menken musical since Ashman passed.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 8:32 am 
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disneyprincess11 wrote:
Guys, this is like Mencken teaming up with Ashman, Zipper, Schwartz, and Slate. Let's not overthink this.

That's my point of view, too. Menken always collaborates with other songwriters.

Also, why is the immediate assumption that Miranda forced himself onto the project or Disney forced it on him? How do we know Menken didn't personally ask to work with Miranda? He's a hugely respected songwriter and it wouldn't surprise me if, like other Broadway songwriting legends, Alan Menken was a fan of Hamilton: The Musical.

Two hugely respected songwriters collaborating together. Shouldn't that be a cause for celebration, not anger and contempt?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:11 pm 
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estefan wrote:
disneyprincess11 wrote:
Guys, this is like Mencken teaming up with Ashman, Zipper, Schwartz, and Slate. Let's not overthink this.

That's my point of view, too. Menken always collaborates with other songwriters.
There’s only one thing wrong with that point of view. It’s ignoring what the articles are actually saying.

Collaborating on The Little Mermaid soundtrack, which is already a masterpiece and doesn’t need fixing? Yes, I do think that’s cause for contempt. Would Miranda fans celebrate if Menken was asked to help co-write the music for a film version of Hamilton?

I agree with everything you’ve said, Prince Edward. The only song I would be okay with being cut is “Daughters of Triton,” since they might just show that Ariel’s absent without needing the song. But everything else should be there.

@UmbrellaFish: I do think Miranda would be a better songwriter than Slater. My point was that if Menken was actually making any kind of choice in this situation, it’s obvious from his past choices that he would pick Slater.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:33 pm 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:

@UmbrellaFish: I do think Miranda would be a better songwriter than Slater. My point was that if Menken was actually making any kind of choice in this situation, it’s obvious from his past choices that he would pick Slater.


Isn't that a bit of a leap in logic? Menken has stated that, since the passing of Ashman, he best likes working with Slater, but does that mean he'd be adverse to working with any other songwriter? Is Slater such a gold standard of musical partnership that Menken would pass up the opportunity to collab with Miranda, or Sondheim, or the ghost of Hammerstein? All over Glen Slater?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:55 pm 
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UmbrellaFish wrote:
Isn't that a bit of a leap in logic?

Considering he chose Glenn Slater when doing the TLM Broadway musical, I’m thinking… Nope.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:05 pm 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
UmbrellaFish wrote:
Isn't that a bit of a leap in logic?

Considering he chose Glenn Slater when doing the TLM Broadway musical, I’m thinking… Nope.


If this is how it's going to be now, then so be it.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:43 pm 
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There is cause for excitement, because with Alan Menken being involved, at least we know this really will be based on the Disney film, characters, songs, and story, and not be just a different version of the original fairy tale.

As for the Miranda-involvement, I shall await further information, and especially know what some of it sounds like, before I make an opinion. I must say, I am fearful of what someone who writes rap will do with Disney's The Little Mermaid, but who knows what he will do to the music, maybe it won't be bad at all.

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