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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:52 am 
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Vanessa turns out to be the skinny white red head we all wanted as the main star in the first place just to mess with us. :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:15 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
So...

Eric may be white and a black Ariel gives up her voice and home and family and risks her life for him. Well, maybe that's not so bad if you don't look into it...

But now, what about Ursula and Vanessa? A white, overweight Melissa McCarthy becomes a black skinny Vanessa to make Eric pick her over Ariel? Or...she becomes a white, skinny Vanessa to make a white Eric pick her over black Ariel? Or she transforms into other ethnicities? I dunno...maybe Eric and Ursula and Vanessa should all also be black?


There is no “picking,” though. Ursula hypnotizes Eric— there’s no free will, no choice. Vanessa doesn’t look the way she does to encourage Eric to fall in love with her, she looks that way because she is Ursula’s avatar— she looks that way because that’s how Ursula, not Prince Eric, wants Vanessa to look.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:39 am 
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UmbrellaFish wrote:
There is no “picking,” though. Ursula hypnotizes Eric— there’s no free will, no choice. Vanessa doesn’t look the way she does to encourage Eric to fall in love with her, she looks that way because she is Ursula’s avatar— she looks that way because that’s how Ursula, not Prince Eric, wants Vanessa to look.

Ursula looks that way as Vanessa so as not to raise suspicion. She may have been able to control Eric but not everyone else. By turning herself into a conventionally attractive young woman, it becomes more plausible that Eric fell in love with her at first sight.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:27 am 
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That is true, but my point is about Eric’s free will in this matter.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:12 pm 
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Kyle wrote:
Vanessa turns out to be the skinny white red head we all wanted as the main star in the first place just to mess with us. :lol:


...eek.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:51 pm 
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It's also possible that Disney takes a page from the original fairy tale and Vanessa won't be Ursula in disguise but just a girl from the kingdom who tricks Eric into believing she was the one who saved him.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:59 pm 
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Kyle wrote:
Vanessa turns out to be the skinny white red head we all wanted as the main star in the first place just to mess with us. :lol:
rotfl

And I can imagine it turning out that way, too. I guess we'd be lucky to have Vanessa in any form. They could take more cues from the stupid Broadway show and cut her out altogether for a singing competition. :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:01 am 
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Eric is controlled into picking Vanessa by magic...but he is still picking and it just...eek.

I always thought Ursula became skinny not just for beauty but to look like the glimpse Eric got of his mystery love, who he could see was skinny.

By the way, this topic is so, well, topical, on the Comedy Central Roast of Alec Baldwin, one guest congratulated Blake Griffin on landing the part of Ariel. rotfl

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:31 am 
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Gavin Leatherwood Auditions For Prince Eric Role In ‘The Little Mermaid’
https://thedisinsider.com/2019/09/17/ga ... e-mermaid/

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:23 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
Eric is controlled into picking Vanessa by magic...but he is still picking and it just...eek.



No, that doesn’t make sense. You’re using the wrong verb because a person who has no choice cannot “pick.” Eric cannot make a problematic “pick” because he’s not “picking” anything. Ursula turns him into a zombie. She could look like herself and it would not matter to Eric because he is under a spell. Eric hears Ariel’s voice and he is done for, it has nothing to do with her appearance— and the spell is only broken when Ariel gets her voice back.

Hypothetically, you could still say Vanessa being a skinny white woman is problematic optics for reasons, but it cannot be problematic that Eric chooses her over a black girl because if the story remains the same... he has no choice. There is no choosing, no picking to be done.

Also, I have to say that I think Ursula’s Vanessa is really reflective of Ursula’s inner ego more than anything else— if she was really trying to choose a form that wouldn’t arouse suspicion, wouldn’t she pick a more conventional, Princess-type? The sexuality of Vanessa seems to be so distinctly Ursula’s calling card— she’s even prominently wearing her nautilus shell so she doesn’t seem all that concerned about Ariel or Sebastian recognizing her. Grimsby may compliment her looks, but he is clearly surprised by the unexpected and speedy engagement and marriage. It seems to me that the principle reason Ursula chose Vanessa’s specific form is because she likes looking that way and she likes being in that body. She’s clearly having a lot of fun as Vanessa— look at the way she plays with her hair and dances in the scene where Scuttle discovers her true identity.

To me, “Vanessa” has everything to do with Ursula and little to do with Eric or anybody else.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:00 am 
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Sotiris wrote:
Gavin Leatherwood Auditions For Prince Eric Role In ‘The Little Mermaid’
https://thedisinsider.com/2019/09/17/ga ... e-mermaid/
Bleh. No thanks.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:47 pm 
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UmbrellaFish wrote:
Eric cannot make a problematic “pick” because he’s not “picking” anything. Ursula turns him into a zombie. She could look like herself and it would not matter to Eric because he is under a spell. Eric hears Ariel’s voice and he is done for, it has nothing to do with her appearance— and the spell is only broken when Ariel gets her voice back.

I agree that it doesn't matter to Eric how Ursula looks when he's under the spell, but I think she also transforms into someone similar to the girl he remembers to catch Eric's attention at first so she could hypnotize him.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:22 pm 
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I’m not sure I buy that. In the scene where Vanessa hypnotizes Eric, he hears Ariel’s voice first and that’s what catches his attention. In fact, he struggles to see Vanessa through the heavy fog— at most he can make out a feminine silhouette— and the moment he appears to finally see her clearly is also the moment when the hypnosis takes effect.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:25 am 
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Eric is hypnotized into picking her. It's not voluntary but it is picking her.

I believe Ursula becomes a sexy girl because she thinks sexy will work better than a princess type even if Ariel seemed the princess type when he glimpsed her.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:33 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
Eric is hypnotized into picking her. It's not voluntary but it is picking her.

I believe Ursula becomes a sexy girl because she thinks sexy will work better than a princess type even if Ariel seemed the princess type when he glimpsed her.


Oooookay.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:54 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
Eric is hypnotized into picking her. It's not voluntary but it is picking her.

You can't involuntary choose something. Choosing something or someone means you have free will. Eric didn't have free will to choose anything since he was under Ursula's spell.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:48 am 
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Sotiris wrote:
Disney Duster wrote:
Eric is hypnotized into picking her. It's not voluntary but it is picking her.

You can't involuntary choose something. Choosing something or someone means you have free will. Eric didn't have free will to choose anything since he was under Ursula's spell.

Agreed. Eric can't pick at all, as evident when Ariel's voice hypnotizes him. The second Ursula's necklace breaks and Ariel's voice returns to her, the magical glow in his eyes disappears and he's back to normal.

As for Vanessa's appearance, I always felt she had a resemblance to Ariel. Especially Ariel in the scene when she's singing the POYW reprise to Eric on the beach. You have to keep in mind that his one view of her is in that scene with the sun streaming down. Her red hair looks more brown or auburn in that scene because of the sunlight.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:28 pm 
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It's true that Eric doesn't make a choice with Vanessa--he's only really concerned about who has The Voice anyway, not looks--but there's no denying Vanessa's design is deliberately similar to Ariel. The hair color, bangs, and Ursula's eyebrows are the only real difference.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:56 pm 
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Ariel and Vanessa don’t resemble each other at all, though, do they? Their entire face shape is different, Ariel has a fuller, rounder face with wide round eyes whereas Vanessa’s face is slim with sharp angles and oval shaped eyes. Look at this fan edit of Ariel’s face on Vanessa’s body and you see the difference— suddenly Vanessa doesn’t look like Vanessa anymore.

http://es.fanpop.com/clubs/disney-princ ... face-photo
Vanessa with Ariel’s face


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:33 pm 
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This is the first time I’ve ever heard anyone argue they don’t look like one another, but okay? There are minor differences, I’ve already said that myself. But, yes, they do look like one another, this isn’t a new thing. The whole point this discussion is even being had is because someone thought about how much they look like one another and wondered if they’ll re-create that in the live-action film.

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