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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:57 pm 
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farerb wrote:
As someone who had to survive Hermione Granger’s Beauty and the Beast, You all are going to be fine. Ariel fans got an actress who can sing!

Belle fans had to get a Beast who negs and a clearance rack dress for “empowerment” reasons.


She was great in the role :x


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:08 pm 
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I think this movie wil be good , but i still think it's unnecessary.

The original was a masterpice.

But i have no problem with the casting.

I especially like the choice of Awkwafina as Scuttle :D


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:56 pm 
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^ I agree on Watson and Awkwafina. The latter is the thing I'm most looking forward to with this.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:59 pm 
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farerb wrote:
I never defended Redadoodles when he complained about Keira, I remember saying that while I disagreed with her, it's her prerogative to say what she feels and that I thought it was no big deal.


I don’t have an issue with Keira expressing her opinions at all (as long as she sticks by them) however I think it’s just an odd technique from a business point of view. The fact that she promotes a Disney fairy tale while ranting about another one doesn’t make sense and at the end of the day, The Nutcracker was a box office and critical flop while Cinderella (both versions) were both well received by audience and critics alike. Anyway, to me, it’s just as if she was promoting the new iPhone while saying the first iPod is awful.

Disney's Divinity wrote:
At least this is a friendly reminder that misogyny never seems to get an equal response on this forum, whether it's Belle or Jasmine in the remakes or Raya now. I think Redadoodles has made many posts that I personally perceived as sexism.


If by sexism you mean that I’m 100% per cent for a woman to be completely free to chose how to live her life whether it’s as a housewife who bakes all day or a soldier who defends her country, then sure I’m the biggest sexist bastard you’ll ever talk to. :) :)

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:02 pm 
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If that were true, you wouldn't have a problem with Raya being a warrior or the modern princesses fighting. *shrug* That post was more a sentiment towards the forum at large, not you in particular although people going after you over supposed "racism" seemed like the only moment to express it. I can only imagine the discrepancy in the degrees of reaction comes from a reverence of passive female characters from very old Disney films. It's probably good that SOTS is banned then and we all couldn't have grown up seeing it, or less people probably wouldn't care about perceived racism either. :P

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:44 pm 
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I have a problem with Raya being a warrior the same way I’d have an issue with a prince fighting. Royalty is supposed to lead the army (that is when diplomacy doesn’t work) but not endanger themselves nor promote violence. I didn’t mean that a princess shouldn’t know how to fight but to me royalty should only fight back and not be the ones who attack on the battlefield.
Mulan is not a princess and yet I think she’s an awesome character and the fact that she is a warrior is awesome as well. There’s also Princess Fiona from the Shrek series who is a princess yet she defends herself brilliantly when she has to. Now, of course there are different customs and rules throughout the world for princes and princesses alike and I do not pretend to be familiar with all of them. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:11 am 
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lord-of-sith wrote:
And these posts preferring Ariel to be cast by an actress with red hair. Pretty disqualifying to any black actress, no?

Well, for The Princess and the Frog, they would disqualify any actress who wasn't black for Tiana.

I just wanted a red-haired white actress because I wanted what I felt was an important iconic visual of the original that the remake should keep, just like Maleficent had to keep her horns and Cinderella had to keep her blonde hair and big, poofy blue dress (and yes I know her hair is really strawberry blonde and her dress is silver but blonde is close and her dress sometimes looked blue and it was still big and poofy). And Mowgli in the remake was of Indian descent just like he was designed in the original animation, too.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:42 pm 
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Based on a photo Halle Bailey posted (and then deleted), it seems her hair will be brown-ish instead of red and that she'll be wearing dreadlocks as Ariel. I'm guessing Disney decided to keep Halle's dreads because of how politicized Black hair has become. I imagine if they had her straighten them out to fashion the Farrah Fawcett-inspired hairstyle from the movie, there would be backlash. There's really no excuse for the hair color. I suppose they were going for the more natural ginger look, but it just doesn't work for me. I hope they make her hair look more red-ish in post-production, although if they were planning to do that, they wouldn't have her dye her hair in that shade to begin with. I have to admit, it's a bit disappointing that Ariel's iconic hair color and hairstyle won't be present in the live-action remake.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:29 pm 
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Sotiris wrote:
Based on a photo Halle Bailey posted (and then deleted), it seems her hair will be brown-ish instead of red and that she'll be wearing dreadlocks as Ariel. I'm guessing Disney decided to keep Halle's dreads because of how politicized Black hair has become. I imagine if they had her straighten them out to fashion the Farrah Fawcett-inspired hairstyle from the movie, there would be backlash. There's really no excuse for the hair color. I suppose they were going for the more natural ginger look, but it just doesn't work for me. I hope they make her hair look more red-ish in post-production, although if they were planning to do that, they wouldn't have her dye her hair in that shade to begin with. I have to admit, it's a bit disappointing that Ariel's iconic hair color and hairstyle won't be present in the live-action remake.


If you actually look close on the side of her face you can see straightened strands of hair. I think they actually straightened it and she just has it in twists for maintenance sake to prevent breakage. Which actually shocks me because I feel like they’ll get a lot of backlash for removing her dreadlocks. But from that photo, if you really zoom in close, it sure looks to me like she’s going to have straight or at least loose natural curls. Unless they go with the twists instead. I don’t mind the color, but I do wish they’d gone a little more red.


Last edited by nomad2010 on Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:58 pm 
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I just assumed her hair was going to be the way it is naturally, that they wouldn't be changing it for the role. I think it would look dumb if she dyed her hair, tbh.

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David Archuleta ~ "A Little Too Not Over You" / "The Day After Tomorrow"
David Archuleta ~ "Think of Me" (cover) / "Elevator"
David Archuleta ~ "Up All Night" / "OK, Alright"


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:43 pm 
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nomad2010 wrote:
But from that photo, if you really zoom in close, it sure looks to me like she’s going to have straight or at least loose natural curls. Unless they go with the twists instead. I don’t mind the color, but I do wish they’d gone a little more red.

People online have described the hairstyle as "goddess locs" which is a type of dreadlocks that have loose curly ends. That might be it.

Disney's Divinity wrote:
I think it would look dumb if she dyed her hair, tbh.

Why? Because she's Black? Real-world genetics don't have to apply to fantastical creatures like mermaids.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:19 pm 
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Sotiris wrote:

Disney's Divinity wrote:
I think it would look dumb if she dyed her hair, tbh.

Why? Because she's Black? Real-world genetics don't have to apply to fantastical creatures like mermaids.


It always cracks me up that people act like Ariel’s hair in the movie was a natural color. Crayola red hair doesn’t exist in nature rotfl


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:26 pm 
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Well, I have seen White people with auburn hair before. I didn't say Ariel's hair color in the original film was a natural hair color--likewise the film never calls it a "magical trait" part of her being a fantasy creature either--but I've never seen a Black person with red hair even close to, say, Julia Roberts'. :lol: :lol: Just like a Black person with long golden hair as Rapunzel would look stupid af, too, SNS. :shrug: I think there was a Black woman as Rapunzel on OUAT and they weren't stupid enough to dye her hair because they knew the audience would find it ridiculous.

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David Archuleta ~ "A Little Too Not Over You" / "The Day After Tomorrow"
David Archuleta ~ "Think of Me" (cover) / "Elevator"
David Archuleta ~ "Up All Night" / "OK, Alright"


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:21 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
I just wanted a red-haired white actress because I wanted what I felt was an important iconic visual of the original that the remake should keep, just like Maleficent had to keep her horns and Cinderella had to keep her blonde hair and big, poofy blue dress (and yes I know her hair is really strawberry blonde and her dress is silver but blonde is close and her dress sometimes looked blue and it was still big and poofy). And Mowgli in the remake was of Indian descent just like he was designed in the original animation, too.


You should NOT have to justify yourself. Ariel's hair is an iconic character design choice and it is just as memorable as Cruella's hair. No one can blame you for wanting to see it on the big screen especially when other design choices were reproduced for the remakes such as Belle's dresses or Jasmine's outfit. If Disney has decided to cast a black actress for the part that's great but the fans are allowed to desire to see some of their memories brought up to life. If Ariel's hair is not red and if her tail is not green, then there is no point in calling her Ariel and they should just create a new character for the remake.
Celebrities such as Zendaya and Rihanna have proved that can rock that hair colour and still look drop dead gorgeous and when I was a child, I thought Lil' Kim also looked beautiful in the Lady Marmelade music video with bright red hair as well.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:50 am 
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Well, Zendaya not so much, but, yeah, Rihanna looked pretty with the red hair. If Ariel was a character living in a city in America when it's obvious people wear wigs and dye their hair all the time, I wouldn't find it dumb. But this is a fairy tale set hundreds of years ago; it's not reasonable that the audience should assume Ariel would be wearing a wig or that she'd have dyed her hair. Who knows, maybe she can find the red wig in the sunken ship along with her Dinglehopper and Snorflatt. :lol: But how to keep it from floating off her head while she's underwater? No, I'd prefer Bailey just kept her hair as it is.

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Listening to most often lately:
David Archuleta ~ "A Little Too Not Over You" / "The Day After Tomorrow"
David Archuleta ~ "Think of Me" (cover) / "Elevator"
David Archuleta ~ "Up All Night" / "OK, Alright"


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:33 am 
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Ariel is a mermaid not a human. Mermaids can have "abnormal" hair colours because they're fantastical creatures. For example, Robert Eggers gave his mermaid a (huge!!!) vagina in The Lighthouse.
As for the hair colour, It wouldn't be the first time anyway as seen in Hook (1991)
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It's true that I haven't chosen the best Zendaya picture haha..
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:42 am 
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If her red hair was supposed to be seen as some kind of abnormal magical power because she's a fantasy creature, you'd have thought the people on land who meet her would have commented on it. Much in the same way none of the other characters comment on her eyes being the same size as her waist—it’s a design choice, not some magical trait. Animation exaggerates and "pretties up" everything. So—red hair that's more of a pure red than you'd see in the real world. But it's still red hair. I don't remember any character (background or otherwise) in the film having abnormal hair color.

I hope Bailey just looks like herself... I imagine there would be more controversy if Disney makes a Black woman "change" her own hair to fit the "White" hair of the original film anyway. Let the actress be herself, imo.

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Listening to most often lately:
David Archuleta ~ "A Little Too Not Over You" / "The Day After Tomorrow"
David Archuleta ~ "Think of Me" (cover) / "Elevator"
David Archuleta ~ "Up All Night" / "OK, Alright"


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:12 am 
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Who cares about how people would react to Ariel's hair colour when back then people would be very racist to begin with.
Ariel's hair colour in the remake is the least of Disney's worries if they don't address the skin colour of Halle by having a racist subplot which could very interesting if done correctly.
It already made no sense to have black princesses at the beginning of Beauty And The Beast because the prince is supposed to very judgemental, shallow and cruel. Actually, it's hilarious how the villagers have no issues with the black peasants seen around town but have a huge problem with Belle reading books. It makes zero sense (especially when they hint at Lefou's homosexuality at the end of the film which doesn't seem to bother anyone either). I have the same problem with the remake of Cinderella. I refuse to believe that a woman as cruel and ignorant as Lady Tremaine be accepting of a black man ordering her around at the end of the film. That's why, I would have loved Cinderella to be black in the remake and have a real commentary on race in that film because I do not count the Brandy Cinderella version as one because in that film, Brandy's skin colour is not discussed and many other characters (such as the queen) are black.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:01 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
Well, for The Princess and the Frog, they would disqualify any actress who wasn't black for Tiana.

I just wanted a red-haired white actress because I wanted what I felt was an important iconic visual of the original that the remake should keep, just like Maleficent had to keep her horns and Cinderella had to keep her blonde hair and big, poofy blue dress (and yes I know her hair is really strawberry blonde and her dress is silver but blonde is close and her dress sometimes looked blue and it was still big and poofy). And Mowgli in the remake was of Indian descent just like he was designed in the original animation, too.


To use Tiana as some kind of example on how the roles can't be reversed is so weird to me. Optics are oh so very important. Yes it wouldn't be okay to change Tiana's race, because it would be erasing a black character's ethnicity, when they are already underrepresented. White people and characters will absolutely never be underrepresented, so to change a character from white to any other race isn't erasing white representation. The fact that this is really the first instance of race-bending a character like this in one of these remakes shows how rare it actually is. Are we just supposed to keep casting only white people in every fantasy movie forever because it so happens to be set before the 1900s? I don't want black actors to only be relegated to playing characters where their race is presented as a conflict in the plot. Yes, that has it's place, but it has to be exhausting for them as creative performers.

This thread has already offered up examples of disposable side characters that were cast with non-white actors that people already claimed were "unrealistic." You don't need to point out that it's unrealistic that a black man would be a European Prince's captain of the guard in Cinderella or that black women wouldn't be in the king's court in Beauty and the Beast. We know this. If we're accepting these movies as full fantasy worlds where mermaids, enchantresses, etc. exist, why can't we accept black people in roles of importance? Until now, black actors have really only been cast in these remakes in roles people didn't feel strongly about to begin with (sorry to all of my Wardrobe and Feather Duster stans). I'm happy one has been race-bent for a role that is really significant and important, not just a throwaway "see how diverse we are" moment.

Also I don't see why Bailey being black disqualifies her hair from being red in the movie. I haven't seen these photos of her that indicate they are going with a more natural look (I honestly don't care either way), but if red hair is really your sticking point, a black actress can wear a wig just as easily as anyone else.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:15 am 
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Sotiris wrote:
It would be nice if everyone in general would stop accusing others (directly or indirectly) of being sexist/racist/homophobic etc. "Calling someone out" is actually against the rules as it's a form of personal attack. You can express your position and your perspective on something without making it personal or resorting to name-calling. It's really not that difficult.


I want to make sure the difference is noted between labeling people and labeling actions. I can imply that ideas or posts being made have racist undertones, without saying the user who posted it is racist. Anyone, myself included, can make racist/sexist/etc. comments without malicious intent. Attempting to call them out should not be seen as "you are a bad racist person" however that's normally how it's perceived. Because these topics are becoming so prevalent in our culture, people get very sensitive when they think they are being labeled "racist", "sexist" or any number of other things. It should be okay to debate a point someone made that you think is racist without people reacting with hyperbolic "wow okay you think I'm a racist" and taking it as a personal attack. How can we debate something like this if every single implication is taken as a personal attack?


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