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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:10 pm 
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All I can say is finally lol. BTW, there are possible spoilers in the comments section so I wouldn't recommend reading them. I'm not pleased at all with what I read so I hope it's just the ramblings of a delusional person. It's just a comment on a Youtube video so it's not really credible but I wouldn't put it past Disney to do something like this either.

Apparently Disney is using their twist villain trope in their live-action films as well now. Someone read one of the picture books and the Sugar Plum Fairy is the real villain, not Mother Ginger.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:39 pm 
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JeanGreyForever wrote:
All I can say is finally lol. BTW, there are possible spoilers in the comments section so I wouldn't recommend reading them. I'm not pleased at all with what I read so I hope it's just the ramblings of a delusional person. It's just a comment on a Youtube video so it's not really credible but I wouldn't put it past Disney to do something like this either.

Apparently Disney is using their twist villain trope in their live-action films as well now. Someone read one of the picture books and the Sugar Plum Fairy is the real villain, not Mother Ginger.


That’s really funny because I’ve suspected that for a long time because there’s no way they got Keira Knightley to play *just* a goofy fairy who prances around and shows her the realms. There has to be a lot more to her character. And the voice in and of itself practically seems set up for a major twist in which it gets really deep and creepy. I’m more than fine with it, I just wish it didn’t seem so blatantly obvious due to casting such a huge start in the role. She’s got top billing on the posters and in the movie for a reason. I’m sure that means there’s a lot of movie we haven’t seen yet in trailers, and that excites me.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:07 am 
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Disneyprincess11, what is life-spin? What is the twist? I'm not reading the spoilers.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:48 am 
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I like the idea of Keira Knightley playing a villain. I'm much more interested in this now than I was.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:31 am 
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I knew this wasn't going to be a traditional take on the original story but I'm not really a fan of an iconic character like the Sugar Plum Fairy being turned into a villain. I get too many Maleficent vibes from that since this is sort of the inverse of that. It will be nice to see Keira play a villain though so it's not a total loss. I really hope Disney learns that the surprise villain trope already felt old several movies ago and it's completely unnecessary now. I'm sure future films like Frozen 2 and Safe will end up employing this tired trope as well.


Last edited by JeanGreyForever on Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:35 am 
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JeanGreyForever wrote:
Apparently Disney is using their twist villain trope in their live-action films as well now. Someone read one of the picture books and the Sugar Plum Fairy is the real villain, not Mother Ginger.

Oh boy. I hope that's not true. I'm so tired of that lazy Lasseterian trope. It's now infecting the live-action films too? It sacrifices character development and foreshadowing for a cheap twist and makes the movie dated and less rewatchable.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:39 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
Disneyprincess11, what is life-spin? What is the twist? I'm not reading the spoilers.


The Nutcracker is life-size, instead of this tiny time.

Well, my half-awake 3am butt read the spoiler and while I'm kicking myself for it, I'm totally not surprised. It was a theory a long ago. I just didn't expect it to happen. I just don't know why they made one of the most iconic Nutcracker characters the true villain. It's like making Aurora the villain in Maleficent. I don't know what is wrong with making Mother Ginger the villain. She sounded cool. And plus: Evil Sugar Plum Fairy will be hard to be taken seriously with that squeaky voice.

nomad2010 wrote:
And the voice in and of itself practically seems set up for a major twist in which it gets really deep and creepy.


Ah, true. I hope it gets deep, but the cute squeakiness will be creepy, but annoying and...cute

Sotiris wrote:
Oh boy. I hope that's not true. I'm so tired of that lazy Lasseterian trope. It's now infecting the live-action films too?


Right?! Why are they pulling the trope in every Disney studio now? First, Pixar. Then, WDAS. And now, the live action studio? What's next: Belle and the Beast being the real villains in Descendants 3?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:18 am 
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Does that mean that Mother Ginger is just another pointless red herring like the Duke of Weselton?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:25 pm 
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farerb wrote:
Does that mean that Mother Ginger is just another pointless red herring like the Duke of Weselton?

That seems to be the case. It's also possible that it'll turn out that Mother Ginger is actually a good guy who has been painted to be a bad guy by the "good guys" like the Sugar Plum Fairy. Sort of like Elphaba in Wicked or even Glinda in Oz the Great and Powerful.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:50 pm 
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The film's director has shared a couple of new pieces of concept art on Instagram and a video that shows how the tribute to Fantasia was planned:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BoW6_0LB14o ... ehallstrom
https://www.instagram.com/p/BoZEPUQhs6D ... ehallstrom
https://www.instagram.com/p/BoOyNYwhTse ... ehallstrom


Sotiris wrote:
I don't believe this character poster has been posted here before.

No, it hadn't been posted. Thanks for sharing it!


disneyprincess11 wrote:
The Nutcracker is life-size, instead of this tiny time.

Maybe we won't see his Nutcracker form in the film then. Perhaps that image of a white Nutcracker is only for the merchandise. If that's the case, I'm relieved he won't be a white Nutcracker, but a bit disappointed there won't be an actual Nutcracker in the movie.


JeanGreyForever wrote:
In the original, he's got multiple heads so I figured this was their take on that, but I have the same feeling you do that he'll just be composed of an army of mindless and voiceless mice who will serve as henchmen and nothing else.

I think I read that about the Mouse King in a summary of the book's story, but I didn't remember it. Yes, maybe that's what inspired them to make him composed of lots of mice.


JeanGreyForever wrote:
BTW, there are possible spoilers in the comments section so I wouldn't recommend reading them. I'm not pleased at all with what I read so I hope it's just the ramblings of a delusional person. It's just a comment on a Youtube video so it's not really credible but I wouldn't put it past Disney to do something like this either.

I stopped reading comments on Youtube when I found out that Ray dies in The Princess and the Frog from a comment on a trailer or featurette of the film. But I clicked on the spoiler too. I don't know why, because I usually try to avoid major spoilers. I'll never learn. :lol: Anyway, If it's true, I think I would've been surprised seeing it because I didn't expect there would be a surprise villain in this movie. If anyone wants to find out if it's true or not and doesn't mind spoilers, there's a video on Youtube with the whole content of the Disney Read Along Movie Storybook.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:22 pm 
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Thanks for the mention of the video, D82. I managed to get the information on the twist villain. And yup, like Frozen, it comes the heck out of nowhere and at the very last second. :roll: Her last line is soooooooo bad. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:38 pm 
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I went ahead and read the movie storybook on Youtube and I almost wish I hadn't just because I left quite disappointed. Basically if you've seen Oz the Great and Powerful, then you've basically seen this film as well because the general plotline is the same. It feels very derivative, but the movie's one highlight sounds like it'll be the ballet performance if that's any consolation. I did like the various little tidbits and references that come from both the ballet and original novella, but they don't make up for the overall lackluster and predictable story.

I know some people said that they would have preferred the title to just be "The Nutcracker" and not "The Nutcracker and the Four Realms" but after reading the story, it becomes clear why Disney changed the title. Frankly "The Nutcracker" would not have been an accurate title at all. Spoilers on the actual plot are below.

So the villain is in fact Keira's character. I don't even think she's a fairy in this. She's just called Sugar Plum, regent of the Land of Sweets. Every realm has had a regent after Clara's mother, Queen Marie, the inventor of the four realms, died. Predictably, Sugar Plum wants to be the one ruler so she makes Mother Ginger out to be the villain, which reminded me way too much of what Evanora does in Oz the Great and Powerful with Glinda. Apparently all the characters were toys originally until Marie brought them to life and Sugar Plum's plan is to turn all the other regents into toys using Marie's machine. The Mouse King seems to have a minor role with him just serving as a henchman. Philip is Clara's companion and is indeed a full-size "Nutcracker" but there doesn't appear to be any actual nutcracker doll. Clara's Christmas present is the egg shown in all the promos, not a nutcracker. Another important point is that Clara and Philip show no signs of any attraction to each other, at least in the storybook. When Clara leaves the magical realms, I expected that she would return to the ball and meet Philip in the real world as Droselmeyer's nephew but that didn't happen. I guess Disney's continuing their trend of their heroines not having love interests anymore. There's a lot of emphasis on her relationship with her father, which frankly I didn't find particularly interesting. I'd rather she be reunited with Philip at the end then with her father, but I suppose that's the romantic in me. One thing I did enjoy was that the four realms are all located in Drosselmeyer's grandfather clock. When Clara is inside, she can see the ball/real world on the outside with everything moving slowly because time moves faster in the four realms. The world building overall seems quite well done if nothing else and I'm sure that feeling will be intensified once I see the actual movie and am not just reading about it.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:52 am 
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disneyprincess11 wrote:
Thanks for the mention of the video, D82. I managed to get the information on the twist villain. And yup, like Frozen, it comes the heck out of nowhere and at the very last second. :roll: Her last line is soooooooo bad. :lol: :lol: :lol:



"Oh shhhhhhh...ugar!"

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Really? I mean really? They actually got Keira to say that line? :lol:



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:39 am 
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Well, I gave in, because everybody's been talking about the spollers. I'm not mad, but, guys, you could have spoiler tagged talking about the spoilers as well... Anyway, I don't mind the twist, because this has been so different from the original story or ballet the more and more we have heard, and I actually think the Sugar Plum Fairy being a villain and played by Keira Knightly is going to be fun. I hope she is still a fairy more than anything, actually. But I must agree with JeanGreyForever, I miss Clara going back to the ball and meeting "the real" Nutcracker who is actually Drosselmeyer's nephew. So I'm miffed about theat. It's so stupid if they did it just because they don't want the romance aspect for a girl in another one of their films. And I actually don't mind the line "Oh ssssugar!" I think it's funny myself. Not clever, but funny. And the idea of the realms in Drosselmeyer's clock, which is clever, is really cool. But I will not read anymore spoilers. I may even stay out of this thread so I don't find out how the battle is won and how everything happens.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:57 am 
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Oh, I'm sorry if there was anything that I should have spoiler-tagged but didn't. I know I commented on how this film disappointed me from being so narratively similar to Oz the Great and Powerful, but I didn't think that was really a huge spoiler since I was talking more about how the film made me feel.

The fact that Clara and Philip are not in a relationship perplexes me a little. I know Disney's newest trend is to keep their female characters as far away from romance as possible (which almost makes me wonder if this is why Disney is relegating Calhoun to such a bit role in Wreck-It Ralph 2), but it's weird that Disney begins this trend in their live-action films just when the main heroine is paired alongside a black male. It would have been more unique and progressive for them to be together because we've never had a major Disney interracial couple where the male character isn't Caucasian.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:03 am 
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I did wish you had spoiler tagged that, because that made me think Clara makes toys to fight the villain and trick her into giving up, like the Wizard's machines and what he did to the witches, which I don't if it's true or not, but I just mean be careful because even little things about spoilers can reveal a lot, or lead a person to think a certain way and ruin the movie. But you can tell me you don't feel it was too spoilerish and you don't feel you needed to tag it, and I really would be ok with that. I have to learn how people feel and what they want to be free to do. The whole Phillip (Philip?) thing, I didn't even realize it was because Disney's against romance now. And yes, this was a bad time for that because it would have been progressive in another way. But it's also a bad time for that because at it's heart The Nutracker is a romantic story!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:09 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
I did wish you had spoiler tagged that, because that made me think Clara makes toys to fight the villain and trick her into giving up, which I don't if it's true or not, but I just mean be careful because even little things about spoilers and reveal a lot. But you can tell me you don't feel it was too spoilerish, and I really would be ok with that. I have to learn how people feel and what they want to be free to do. The whole Phillip (Philip?) thing, I didn't even realize it was because Disney's against romance now. And yes, this was a bad time for that because it would have been progressive in another way. But it's also a bad time for that because at it's heart The Nutracker is a romantic story!


I actually wasn't talking about the ending when it comes to that so you are spoiler-free there. The ending hasn't been spoiled for you at least. I honestly don't remember too much about the ending fight scene because I had lost interest at that point, but the ending of Oz wasn't like the ending in The Nutcracker if that's any consolation. Once again, sorry to you and anyone else who feels that comparing the film to Oz the Great and Powerful gave away too many details. When I used that as a comparison, I meant more how the film's general storyline feels very similar, just as many people complained that Oz felt very much like the live-action Alice in Wonderland. I didn't think it would be a major spoiler since people having been comparing this movie to Alice, Oz, Narnia, etc. since the trailer came out.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:17 am 
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Oh, ok, thank goodness. I wanna see how it all turns out. I see why you felt your comparison shouldn't have caused any spoilers. It's just you said if you've seen that film, you've seen this one, so I felt the plot was a lot like it and that it gave it away! I personally don't think it's like it, but in the future...still be careful! :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:31 am 
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I'll do better next time!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:42 pm 
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• New TV spot: https://twitter.com/thenutcracker/statu ... 6507462658

• International banner: https://www.facebook.com/WaltDisneyThai ... permPage=1

• And the movie will come to The El Capitan Theatre: https://www.laughingplace.com/w/news/20 ... n-theatre/


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