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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:37 pm 
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I'm sure most of you are familiar with this topic, Disney Princesses are very criticised online by almost everybody. Their perfect figures and physical appearances, with tiny waists, big breasts, big eyes, with long, seductive eye-lashes will lead little girls to believe that if they're not skinny, they will never get their happily ever after. These posts claim that children were, are, and will always be influenced by Disney movies in their everyday life.

What I find funny and frankly ridiculous is that these people only focus on the Princesses' physical traits, when it comes to realism in Disney movies. I am seriously so sick of posts like, "I wish I could identify with Ariel, but I'm not as skinny as her." rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl

I know children can be influenced by these movies, but in this case, isn't the parents' job to inform them that everything they see in these movies is fictional, and nothing is real? Isn't their parents' job to tell them that the characters are only drawn, they're not flesh and blood? How come matters like talking, dancing and singing animals and household objects are so easily solved, yet this tiny waist thing is so difficult?

Also, in some cases, I have seen grown women saying that they feel threatened by these characters. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Seriously, I saw a confession, in which a grown woman said she asked her boyfriend which of the Princesses he likes the best. He said that he likes them all, basically, because they're hot. Which made her self-conscious. :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

A girl even made a petition in which she asks the Disney Company to create a plus-size princess, in order for plus-size children to have a positive role-model. Other users even went as far as to suggest a disabled Princess, or a handicapped Princess. Don't they think that a Princess like that will never be as successful as Ariel or Cinderella? That Princess will have to sell dolls, and other toys.

I have watched these movies with my sister on a daily basis, when we were kids, and I have never seen my sister pay any attention to the Princesses' physical appearance. She paid attention to other things, like their singing voices, or their hair (as in the case of Ariel).

Anyway, what is your opinion on this topic? Are you in agreement with me, in thinking that this is a stupid, ridiculous problem, or with basically everyone else who claim that these characters ruin children's self-esteem?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:35 pm 
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I'm somewhere in the middle. I think the depiction of unrealistic body types for women is a problem, but at the same time the criticism can go OTT into crazy territory sometimes. Moana, for example, was refreshing because she looked like a normal girl. When people ask for plus-size, disabled, etc. princesses, what they're really asking for is variety that Disney lacks and I don't think more variety among their characters would be a bad thing.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:43 pm 
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Variety is fine and can be a good thing, but as fans you don't get to demand that they tailor make a princess just for you. The tropes are there for a reason, they appeal to a wide audience (not that kind of wide :lol: )


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:04 pm 
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Viewers can demand anything they want. Whether or not Disney will listen is another thing entirely. The only way to get them to listen to a demand is to hit them in the wallet, and unless people are willing to boycott their princess films (past and future) and merchandise, then Disney won't care. *shrug* It's just like with hand-drawn animation. They wouldn't bring it back unless consumers stopped paying to see 3D films en masse and that's not going to happen.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:10 am 
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I think it's silly and not a problem. In art, which films are, especially Disney Animated Classics, we put what we want in, not what is always the truth. Art comes first, not pleasing variety. A fat person usually wants to be skinny. A disabled person usually wants to be fully-abled. So we put in what they want. Some people do like being fat, or whatever else isn't portrayed, but then if they do, why are they complaining in the first place? Shouldn't they already be happy?

Also, I have wondered lately, why are the Disney Princesses seen as bad for little girls? It's not just the body image issue. I would say it's also because of the romance thrown on them and that they have it easy with another's money. It's either a prince's or their parent's money. So I say Tiana is the most feminist and best role model for a princess because it's all her money and a more fleshed out romance.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:35 am 
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I have no problems with their appearances. The Disney Princesses shouldn't be relatable to the average girl imo, because they are a class beyond the general population. While the DPs are a nice ideal to strive to resemble, because they, for the most part, represent the best of us, they aren't real at the end of the day. Hence why they can be afforded this luxury of being such unattainable beauties. We weren't meant to meet their standard (well most of us), because they represent the pinnacle of perfection for both inner and outer beauty. That's the way they were in their original stories and I don't see anything wrong with this, especially since countries like Japan, China, India, etc. still go by this classical standard for princesses. We already had this discussion a little while ago, with how the way the princesses are perceived is really only an issue in the US. Latin America, Europe, Asia, etc. don't have any such issues with them.

Anyway, I think a lot of people really do love the princesses especially because of their beauty, rather than in spite of. The best real life example of this is none other than Princess Diana. She was considered one of the most beautiful women to have ever existed, both because of her looks, but also the way she carried herself. Kate may be liked, but everyone says she isn't Diana and never could be. Even on Kate's wedding day, so many people kept remarking that she doesn't hold a candle to Diana and how beautiful of a bride Diana was on her wedding day. Diana is a cultural phenomenon even now decades after her death, and one could argue that the DPs are as well seeing as how they are a billion dollar industry. So beauty does sell and that doesn't always have to be a bad thing.

I've heard lots of stories about petite girls who get upset when the DPs are shamed for having unrealistic waists and body types, because these girls have those "unrealistic" body types. Frankly Moana already can fulfill the requirements for a "plus-size" princess, so I don't see the point in having one, besides the obvious health reasons.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:41 am 
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I'm so happy to see that people around here are smart, and use their brains for a change. :D :D :D :D

You all make so valid points. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:54 am 
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I too don't understand the obsession with their physical appearances -- they're animated characters, so of course their features are exaggerated in order to be both easier to animate and be appealing to the audiences. Even the term "princess" is sort of mythical in itself and denotes this extraordinary physical beauty, so why wouldn't films based on fairy tales want to reflect that? They're not supposed to be realistic anyway. Also, in most cases their looks correspond to the overall look and design of their respective films (i.e. Meg's column-like figure or Jasmine's hourglass shape). If a person, a parent or a child has issues with the look of a fictional character or tries (and fails) to emulate said look, they have bigger, psychological issues to deal with (see also "Human Barbie" and "Human Ken").

And while everybody's hung up on their physical appearance, they conveniently ignore what these amazing characters can actually teach you. We truly live in the age of shallowness.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:16 pm 
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Sicoe Vlad wrote:
Seriously, I saw a confession, in which a grown woman said she asked her boyfriend which of the Princesses he likes the best. He said that he likes them all, basically, because they're hot. Which made her self-conscious. :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:


Hopefully you don't mean Disney Confessions. :|

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A girl even made a petition in which she asks the Disney Company to create a plus-size princess, in order for plus-size children to have a positive role-model.


This I can get on board with.

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Other users even went as far as to suggest a disabled Princess, or a handicapped Princess.


...but this I will not.

Given how it took Disney 72 years to give us a Black princess, I think the other animation studios should take a try at giving us a non-traditional princess (and I DO NOT mean anything from Shrek!).

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:01 pm 
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Semaj wrote:
This I can get on board with.
Man, plus sized people are not a race or even a minority. It shouldn't be encouraged. I like how in another thread we have people saying marketing to kids via happy meals is making America fat but we are pushing for fatter princesses.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:05 pm 
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I think it's more of a case that the majority of the US is fat. Depicting realistic body shapes doesn't equate to WALL E obesity, jeez, but more something like the cut designs of Bastion for Rapunzel (that became Flynn/Tangled). In that respect, it's comparable to wanting more black or Latino characters to reflect the fact that they are a sizable percentage of the population. People like to see characters who are like themselves; that's not an odd concept. I want more gay characters in film and I don't feel bad about it, which is why I can't then turn around and blame others for wanting something similar.

Another thing is I can't help wondering if, say, a person finds it silly to think impossible body shapes like those of Ariel, Jasmine, and Rapunzel might promote low self-esteem, anorexia, bulimia, warped body ideals, etc., why then assume an overweight character would promote gluttony, obesity, etc.?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:30 pm 
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In character design beauty signatures are exaggerated. So in Ariel's world she does not read as anorexic at all, just young and fit. If she were intended to be that way, you would know it. If you put an overweight character in an animated movie its going to read that way. Which is why when you see them used its usually very intentional, its why you end up with wall-e body types. If they have someone they know they want to be over weight, they're going push it for clarity, for story reasons.

As for the cut Bastion design, I think its important to note that there are two ways you can have a larger male character. One just eats a lot, the other is more of a brute. I see Bastion as the second. You can't really use that body type on a female, it would inherently make her masculine. Like that female coatch from Glee.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:28 am 
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Kyle wrote:
As for the cut Bastion design, I think its important to note that there are two ways you can have a larger male character. One just eats a lot, the other is more of a brute. I see Bastion as the second. You can't really use that body type on a female, it would inherently make her masculine. Like that female coatch from Glee.

Yeah, I never saw Bastion as fat either. He was just built like a hulking young man, something that would have been emphasized when juxtaposed with the more slight Rapunzel. It was meant to make him come off as more worldly and her as someone who requires protection due to her sheltered nature.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:16 am 
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I didn't say Bastion was fat? I said overweight--you can be overweight without being fat or obese, imo. Slightly overweight/chubby falls into plus-size. I used Bastion as an example of realistic body shapes Disney could use more of (considering we didn't get that kind of design in the finished film), but particularly with their female characters. There is a medium between abnormally thin or abnormally large. You haven't met people who are overweight that aren't all blubber and double chins? :? I meet them all the time, in textiles and other heavy-lifting blue collar jobs.

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If she were intended to be that way, you would know it.
Intentions really have nothing to do with the way the audience reacts to a film. She and Ursula are both extremes. And, anyway, you're twisting words. I didn't call her anorexic--I said that you assume an overweight design would promote unhealthy behaviors and then asked how abnormally thin designs somehow aren't capable of doing the same thing?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:26 am 
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You just said they are abnormally thin, that's anorexic. Which they are not (in their world). So these characters do not promote this. You can't compare body types to the real world in a one to one way anyway. That's why there isn't much room for slightly over weight (whatever semantics you want to use, I don't really care).


If the average disney princess looked like this, then yes these people would have a point.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:05 am 
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Semaj wrote:
Sicoe Vlad wrote:
Seriously, I saw a confession, in which a grown woman said she asked her boyfriend which of the Princesses he likes the best. He said that he likes them all, basically, because they're hot. Which made her self-conscious. :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:


Hopefully you don't mean Disney Confessions. :|



Yes, there. I don’t know if it was a joke, or anything. I was actually looking to see if it was posted on april 1st, because I really can’t understand how a grown woman can think like that. But the OP said she was watching The Little Mermaid with her boyfriend, and she asked him which of the Disney Princesses was his faorite, and he said he liked them all, because they’re super beautiful, and hot. The OP is overweight, and said it made her feel terrible, because she will never be as skinny as them.

When it comes to little girls, I can understand why they wanna be like the Princesses, because they look up to them, and maybe don’t know they’re not real, but when we’re talking about a 24 year old woman feeling threatened by them, it’s getting ridiculous and frankly stupid!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:27 am 
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Kyle wrote:
You just said they are abnormally thin, that's anorexic. Which they are not (in their world). So these characters do not promote this.
Ariel, Jasmine, and Rapunzel are impossibly thin. Their heads are twice the size of their waists. :lol: If an overweight character--to whatever degree--would promote overeating, then why don't they promote those things when the only way anybody could actually look like that is to have cosmetic surgery to remove their internal organs?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:17 am 
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I also don't think having overweight or big-figured people will promote bad eating or obesity. I still believe in putting how people want to look in terms of beauty though. And that could include overweight figures. I just don't believe they have to be in for variety's and body image issue's sake.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:09 am 
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I didn't want to hijack the Aladdin live-action thread with general princess talk, so:

JeanGreyForever wrote:
Here are several links from fanpop about Aurora. A lot of them probably start to regurgitate the same information but I posted the main ones I found in case you're interested. The top one is about the classic princesses so you might find some interesting insight on Snow White and Cinderella as well.

http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/disney-prin ... perfection
http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/disney-prin ... t-mary-sue
http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/disney-prin ... ove-aurora
http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/disney-prin ... ra-updated
http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/disney-prin ... ra-college
https://www.fanpop.com/login?redirect_u ... aurora-1-3
http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/disney-prin ... ves-aurora


farerb wrote:
I really like Aurora and I think one important thing people miss about her is that she gave up on being with someone she loved in order to do her duty as a princess.

I also feel like all these competitions of the princesses are very anachronistic. Why can't people celebrate the various female characters Disney gave us over the years without putting one against the other.


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Disney Duster wrote:
Oh wow, thanks JeanGreyForever! I'll have to read those links later. Farerb, I hate to say it, but with Aurora it seemed to me like she felt helpless and unable to make the choice to go with whom she loved over her duty as a princess.

I have to agree with this reasoning. I never felt it was as much out of duty as much as Aurora realizing that there was nothing she could do about it. I've always been curious to see what her reaction would be like if she hadn't been put under the spell by Maleficent and thus Phillip never came back to the castle because he was still in the forest/cottage. They wouldn't be reunited at this point, so how would Aurora take to meeting her parents if all had gone to the fairies' plan? Would she still be weeping? And would her parents sympathize upon learning why she is so miserable?


Quoting from the FanPop articles:

Quote:
Negatives: Snow White is bossy. She comes to the dwarfs’ house and tells them what they have to do and the orders they have to follow to eat. She intrudes on their territory and then tells them what they have to do.

I've never thought of this quite in this way. Snow White originally thought that the Dwarfs were children, so she was going to be maternal to them (wash your hands!); even after finding out that they're adult men, she still feels that maternal instinct- she wants to help them be better, you know? She knows that it's good hygiene to wash your hands before eating- it's another way she's paying them back, in her mind, I think.

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She needs the huntsman to tell her to run away when the Queen is going to kill her. She has to be told to run away!

In traumatic situations, people just don't think clearly, and it's not like Snow White had ever had to run for her life before. I think that it is okay that she was unsure of what to do. I mean, running away was probably infathomable to Snow White, since she had never lived anywhere else, and the Huntsman was just trying to throw a bone to this scared girl.

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Snow is also very naïve. This goes with her optimism, but Snow White really doesn’t understand anything about the world. She doesn’t take any precautions and believes everything will be alright even if she is in a dangerous situation with no protection.

Well, duh. She's a young girl who has only known one way of life. I was fairly naïve and sheltered when I was younger, too. You don't know about something until you learn it/live it, right?

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However, a certain degree of pessimism is a good thing. If a person has absolutely no pessimism, they won’t be able to look at things in a realistic manner. Ultimately, the world is not a perfect place, and so if you can’t see anything bad in the possible outcome, you’re setting yourself up for disappointment.

I feel that Snow White grew up with the expectation that she would clean the castle/be a maid, and that's basically all she knew, so she may not have known if she was being mistreated. Once she learned that she was being hunted, really, that was a fast lesson in, maybe the world isn't as rosy as I thought but there is still good in people. That's why I love Snow White so much- she doesn't think about the 'dark side,' but sees the positive side to everything.

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She is dignified in the way she treats those abusing her, she never sinks to their level. There’s a difference between having dignity and class and being a doormat or pushover, something Cinderella’s often accused of. Cinderella also has a lot of foresight and understands that it will be better in the long run for her to stay with the Tremaines for the time being, and she has the patience to wait out the time.

Cinderella is definitely smart- she knows that she has food and shelter, and she's helping out her animal friends.

Quote:
Cinderella is bitter and truly resentful. You can clearly see her anger she holds against Lady Tremaine. She almost takes it out on Lucifer when he ruins her cleaning, she would have if the bell hadn’t rung right then. She has a chip on her shoulder and knows how to hold a grudge.

I don't condone animal abuse, obviously, but at the same time, Lucifer is the Tremaine to the animals, so Cinderella does hold a grudge against Lucifer, too. I don't see Cinderella being "bitter and truly resentful" as a negative as the writer does; I'd put it under the "neutral" category. It's 100% understandable why she would feel that way.

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Cinderella could have just screamed her head of when the duke was there, but instead she cried and almost let him go without her opportunity. While I’m not saying she really wanted to stay, she was sorry for herself and didn’t really do everything in her power.

While Cinderella can be a "beacon of hope," she also has real emotions, and can't always feel hopeful in her situation. She could have faced real consequences if she did scream, and only the Tremaines heard her.

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Cinderella doesn’t have time to make her dress (though why she didn’t just go in the dress as it was, ignoring fashion of the day, I don’t know.)

I think that maybe people would be able to tell that she wasn't "one of them," so she didn't want to stand out with that dress...? She wanted a special, fancy, beautiful dress that would maybe help her blend in a little bit more with the other fancy, beautiful dresses that people would be wearing...?

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more passive than she needs to be and not stand up for herself in many situations

I think this goes back to how smart Cinderella is; she knows how to pick her battles. She has to live with the Tremaines, so she has learned to put up with some of the harassment but to stick up for herself in the most pressing of situations.

Quote:
Another strong sign of her kindness is the way she acts when she first meets her parents and Phillip’s father. Even after they have created this plot for her that has ended up hurting her so much, she still rushes to her mother’s arms and embraces her. She kisses Phillip’s father. Aurora is just kind.

I pretty much always have this thought when watching this scene, that Aurora doesn't know her parents/King Hubert, but she knows they're family, and that's matters to her.

Quote:
Aurora can also be awkward when she first meets someone

Quote:
Aurora is not really sure how to handle certain situations.

Quote:
Aurora is indecisive

Same. :p I don't see these as a negative, but as realistic! As I've gotten older, Aurora has become one of my favorite princesses.

Quote:
1. Her sense of duty.
By far Aurora's best strength. Few heroines put their people or duty before themselves, because it takes a huge amount of emotional strength to, as humans are basically selfish beings. Some of you say Aurora lacks a backbone, and that is the only reason why she does this. Could be, but I don't think so. We see from what time we have of her onscreen that she is pretty obedient and doesn't like to rebel. This is bad? No, she's being mature. She doesn't like conflict or hurting people's feelings, like her "aunts", who of course would feel bad if she ran away.

This is something I respect a lot in Aurora. She really cares for others and wants to make sure that she can be a benefit to the people around her.

Quote:
She brings the idea...that through sheer willpower you can make the best of your situation no matter how unsatisfying you find it, and that putting others first, even if you don't know them, is the noblest thing to do.


I think that Snow White, Cinderella, and Aurora all share that trait, making the best of their situation. And it's definitely admirable. Sometimes you just don't (initially) have a way out, so you keep doing what you're doing until you find a way to at least try to get out.

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Even though she has lived a very sheltered and isolated life, she is very perceptive and curious to the world around her

I really do love that Aurora is a curious person.

Quote:
I love how she's so comfortable with the animals, and how she plays around with them, but around Phillip she's shy and awkward.

Going back to how relatable Aurora is...

Quote:
Despite her (rather melodramatic) unusual reaction to becoming a princess, Aurora goes back to the kingdom and serves as a princess. Whether you see this as spineless or strong I think says more about you than Aurora, and I've always seen it as a sign of her strength.

I don't see this as spineless at all. Aurora didn't run into the woods to continue living as a peasant to evade her duties. She accepted her responsibility because she likes to be useful, to help others.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:00 pm 
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She just acts as the plot goes, tbh. People are making Aurora to be the Simba of the Walt era, or something like that. Nothing in the movie suggests she did a big, noble sacrifice. Mulan also went along with an arranged marriage but nobody talks about that. We could say that if there was a scene where she goes "alright, I'll go", but nothing of the sort indicates.

Also love the slight passive aggressive comment there of "If you don't get it, then you're in the wrong". Tehehe

Also, honestly, I can't say she's more selfless than most of the Renaissance heroes. I just don't see characters like Quasimodo or Mulan or Tarzan "selfish" compared to her.

Also, shy and awkward? Seems more she felt disturbed by Philip entering into her personal space.

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