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 Post subject: Your ideal Disney movie
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:27 pm 
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I figured this would be a fun topic to discuss. What elements would your ideal Disney movie have?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:47 pm 
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Ideal? Animated, a musical, NOT a road trip, organic comedy, and includes romance.

(while I appreciate the empowerment messages for the last few films, I personally hope it doesn't become THE theme of every Disney movie from here on out - it'd be nice to see them mix things up)


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:56 pm 
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My ideal? Musical, hand-drawn, fairy tale, lots of magic onscreen, female-lead, a magical villainess (or villain, but I'll always prefer a good villainess, I can't help it), a few outfit changes, a prince, a battle where the heroes prove themselves at the end. *shrug* I'm open to other movies though (The Sword in the Stone, Hercules and One Hundred and One Dalmatians are in my top 10, after all), as well as variations on the above, but that is always going to be my "ideal." :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:02 pm 
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I would like to see a movie without the typical animal sidekicks (or any other kinds of sidekicks unless they are essential for the story). And if it was drawn by hand, everything should be that way, like in Ghibli's Ponyo.
It would also be interesting to see Disney use a pefected version of the technique they used in Paperman.

Not making a big deal out of a character's gender. No wacky old ladies who also happens to have a deep spiritual insight regarding magic or nature, or both. No walking on eggshells.

If music, it has to be catchy. But all that depends on personal preferences.

There is no single ideal Disney movie for me, so one could be science fiction, and another one something that felt like it was made between Snow White and Bambi. I would also have liked to see a feature that was 100% innocent, with no villains, true danger or characters hurting each others with words, and still be able to entertain both children and adults. That's a challenge, considering the risk that it could end up being boring. Ponyo and Winnie the Pooh comes close.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:41 pm 
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I mean, pick any movie from the Renaissance and that’s my ideal. Those movies had across the board fantastic music, they weren’t so cynical about romance, the villains were so much better than the ones we have today, CAPS! No road trips! And yes, I like seeing pretty princesses.

But y’know, I like all kinds of Disney movies. I love the music, the artwork, the boldness of Fantasia. I love the crime caper plot and the scratchy Xerox design of 101 Dalmatians. I think The Emperor’s New Groove is the funniest Disney movie and Lilo and Stitch is one of their very best. I think if every Disney movie were like my ideal, the canon would get very boring very quickly.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:15 pm 
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A fairy-tale that is just a fairy-tale. No secret plot twist, no secret villain, no "oh we needed to upgrade this for the 21st century". Pretty songs that don't have to be epic Broadway belting songs, no meta stuff. Oh, and hand-drawn if it isn't too much to ask rotfl


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:41 am 
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I am very...particular. :lol:

— Traditional, hand-drawn animation. Animated with pencil and paper, not tablets and styluses. No use of animation software like Toon Boom and other digital shortcuts. Preferably painted on cels. No rotoscoping. Use of live-action reference footage is acceptable. No animation recycling. It must be perfectly animated and drawn on-model throughout the film, including background characters and crowds.

— Broadway-styled musical. The songs must move the story forward and/or give insight to characters' feelings/motivations/personality. There must be 5-6 songs and 2-3 reprises. An "I Wish" song and a love song are must-haves. Singers must be classically-trained. No use of auto tune or other digital enhancements. The arrangements must be era- and setting-appropriate. Songs and score must be recorded with a live orchestra.

— Female or male lead who's a teenager or young adult. No kids or animals as leads.

— Naturalistic character design that falls within the Disney house style, especially for the leads. Nothing too round, angular or caricatured.

— Lush and detailed backgrounds.

— Based on a fairytale, folktale or myth.

— Pre-modern setting.

— Involves kingdoms and royalty.

— Involves romance, but it doesn't need to be the central focus of the narrative.

— Involves magic.

— Culturally and historically accurate (within reason).

— Intimidating villain, worthy foe for the lead, preferably one who yields magic. No twist villain!

— No buddy, road trip formula!

— No animal sidekicks, no talking animals at all.

— Comedy in moderation. Humor must be clever and tasteful. No slapstick. No toilet humor.

— Nothing metatextual, self-referential or anachronistic.

— Tone must be genuine and sincere. No cynicism or shame for what it is.

— Scope must be grand and epic with high stakes.

— Must take on serious and complex themes while being entertaining and accessible.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:20 am 
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Wow, Sotiris, I really like your specifications! Some in particular are really clever! Aw, but no animal sidekicks? Is there even a Disney movie without them? UmbrellaFish, I also really love what you said! Rodrigo_ca, I also loved what you said, but I do like Broadway belting songs as well. Rumplestiltskin, your description makes me sad, as it means no fairy godmothers are allowed lol.

Sooo...I have autism and it makes me love anything and everything Cinderella - as long as it's European Cinderella, actually. But I also love the 1997 Brandy Cinderella which kind of mixes non-European elements in and I reaaally like that one, so, you know, I guess it's a case-by-case basis for me. So anyway, that means I would love Disney to do Cinderella again. They did it three times already, just two times not animated.

So I would love if they gave their old Cinderella an update. Set in in an imaginary French kingdom of the late 18th century. The painterly Fragonard-inspired CGI of Glen Keane's Rapunzel on the backgrounds, and then try to match those backgrounds in hand drawn animation that is then put within those backgrounds. Something also a little like Sergio Pablos's Klaus on the animation. Songs written as good as the music of, say, Beauty and the Beast, which I consider to have Disney's best soundtrack. So, yeah, get Alan Menken for that. But you can keep like all of the original characters and their personalities, just let's see the Prince's personality, let's see him and Cinderella's relationship more, so let's hear them talking and be convinced they are in love at the ball other than through song and montage, and let's give Cinderella more sewing projects to be into. Oh, and more on the humans, way less on the animals. Something more like the 2015 live-action Cinderella in terms of that. Maybe even rather close to that story. But, yeah, somehow not boring. Somehow keep all that I've described from being boring.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:17 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
Wow, Sotiris, I really like your specifications! Some in particular are really clever! Aw, but no animal sidekicks? Is there even a Disney movie without them?

Well, animals loved Snow White and Aurora, but there were was no one animal in particular that was their pet/sidekick.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:26 am 
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rodrigo_ca wrote:
A fairy-tale that is just a fairy-tale. No secret plot twist, no secret villain, no "oh we needed to upgrade this for the 21st century". Pretty songs that don't have to be epic Broadway belting songs, no meta stuff. Oh, and hand-drawn if it isn't too much to ask rotfl

Exactly all of this. I'll also add that while a romance isn't necessary, I personally would like to see love portrayed in the film especially to push back against this idea that a woman falling in love somehow makes her weaker and less feminist. Patty Jenkins said it best.
"I feel like one of the most ironically sexist things that happened to women heroes for so long was that they had universal storytelling taken away from them. So, male superheroes could have Lois Lane. They can have love, they can have vulnerability, they can have complexity. But women superheroes or strong women characters had to be, 'I don’t need anyone, I’m the toughest person in the world.' That’s not fair to anybody. No human being is an island like that."

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:43 am 
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Sotiris wrote:
Well, animals loved Snow White and Aurora, but there were was no one animal in particular that was their pet/sidekick.

Oh. Yeah I guess I kind of considered those their sidekicks but now I get what you mean.

I like what Patty Jenkins said JeanGreyForever.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:01 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
I like what Patty Jenkins said JeanGreyForever.

Yes, that really spoke to me considering how many female characters have been robbed of their happiness and their agency because the patriarchy has somehow convinced us that women are better and stronger for not having love.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:20 am 
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Sotiris wrote:
— Traditional, hand-drawn animation. Animated with pencil and paper, not tablets and styluses. No use of animation software like Toon Boom and other digital shortcuts. Preferably painted on cels. No rotoscoping. Use of live-action reference footage is OK. No animation recycling. It must be perfectly animated and drawn on-model throughout the film, including background characters and crowds.


Is Xerox allowed?

Disney Duster wrote:
Rumplestiltskin, your description makes me sad, as it means no fairy godmothers are allowed lol.


Not sure what you mean here.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:36 am 
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Rumpelstiltskin wrote:
Is Xerox allowed?

No! :twisted: :lol: Not a fan of the xerox look.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:17 am 
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I guess mine is broader than most. It's basically what I said in the Encanto thread. To me it's a film based on a fairy tale or a story or a myth with music, either the Broadway style like in the Renaissance or the Revival, or music that sets the mood like with Walt's films.

Everything else is really up to execution. I like musicals, but would I call Brother Bear one of the ultimate Disney films? No.
So I don't mind what narrative choices they make as long as they are executed well, whether it's the "road trip" or a twist or romance or comedy.

I also don't think romance is mandatory and I don't think films should be made with that in mind, like Mulan, which didn't really need romance amongst all the war (I guess I just don't find it plausible that something like that would be on someone's mind when they're in a particular situation), it was only put there because that was the formula back then. Half of Walt's films didn't have romance in them and I don't regard them as less than the ones with romance.

Same with the comedic sidekick, they might be executed well and they might not. The latter Renaissance films had that issue mostly.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:12 pm 
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Sotiris wrote:
— Traditional, hand-drawn animation. Animated with pencil and paper, not tablets and styluses. No use of animation software like Toon Boom and other digital shortcuts. Preferably painted on cels. No rotoscoping. Use of live-action reference footage is OK. No animation recycling. It must be perfectly animated and drawn on-model throughout the film, including background characters and crowds.
Oh, yeah, I'm against rotoscoping as well. I'm so-so about animation recycling. If it's done very sparingly, like Bambi's mother at the beginning and the SB dancefloor at the end of B&tB, for example. Not straight up copying an entire scene like Robin Hood's dance simply a re-creation of Snow White's.

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— Broadway-styled musical. The songs must move the story forward and/or give insight to characters' feelings/motivations/personality. There must be 5-6 songs and 2-3 reprises. An "I Wish" song and a love song are must-haves. Singers must be classically-trained. No use of auto tune or other digital enhancements. The arrangements must be era- and setting-appropriate. Songs and score must be recorded with a live orchestra.
Moves the story forward, yeah.

Quote:
— Female or male lead who's a teenager or young adult. No kids or animals as leads.
I simply prefer female characters, which is why I'd list that as my ideal. Still, I'd enjoy a male character or child character in a musical almost as much.

Quote:
— Involves romance, but it doesn't need to be the central focus of the narrative.
I prefer there to be a little romance. I agree it doesn't have to be the central focus; it isn't in Frozen or its sequel, for example. But I do like romance-heavy films, too. *shrug* I can take films that are absent of romance as well, but my "perfect movie" has a little of everything.

Quote:

— No animal sidekicks, no talking animals at all.
Sometimes I like them (Abu and Rajah; Sebastian and F&J; Mushu, Cri-Kee, & Khan; Figaro, etc.), many times not (Timon & Pumbaa, the Gargoyles, Louis, etc.). I'd prefer them to be treated like a legitimate character in their own right, as with Sebastian, rather than solely "comic relief" that is VERY LOUD and gross. I'd almost say I'd prefer them not to talk, but then the animals in Pocahontas annoy the heck out of me despite being non-speaking.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:39 pm 
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Disney Duster wrote:
Rumplestiltskin, your description makes me sad, as it means no fairy godmothers are allowed lol.


Now I see what you mean. Fairy godmothers is not a problem because they are already magical, and they are not "noble savages". Being a little whimsical is not the same as having a tiresome personality with a bit of Yoda thrown in. Like the ancestor trees in Pocahantas, the old lady in Brother Bear or Moana's grandmother (not sure about the old woman in The Princess and the Frog, since I have only seen the movie once an barely remembers anything).
These characters have become so cliche.

Sotiris wrote:
No! :twisted: :lol: Not a fan of the xerox look.


I doesn't bother me, but since we here are talking about what kind of movie one would like to see, one can just as well go all the way back to the golden age.

And it would also be nice to see proper effects animation, like shadows, reflection and ripples on water surfaces, smoke, backlight animation and other handmade techniques, maybe also including stop motion for rigid objects, which was used in The Nutcracker Suite in Fantasia.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:06 am 
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Yes, I agree JeanGreyForever.

Oh, ok Rumplestiltskin. I guess you are ok with magical beings like fairies but not those using religious or nature magic. Or maybe you just don't like nature magic. Mama Odie from Princess and the Frog just used religious magic. What was the stop-motion in The Nutcracker Suite?!

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:17 am 
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Rumpelstiltskin wrote:
Disney Duster wrote:
Rumplestiltskin, your description makes me sad, as it means no fairy godmothers are allowed lol.


Now I see what you mean. Fairy godmothers is not a problem because they are already magical, and they are not "noble savages". Being a little whimsical is not the same as having a tiresome personality with a bit of Yoda thrown in. Like the ancestor trees in Pocahantas, the old lady in Brother Bear or Moana's grandmother (not sure about the old woman in The Princess and the Frog, since I have only seen the movie once an barely remembers anything).
These characters have become so cliche.

I agree with this, its become a tired cliche which Disney uses quite often. And it's not always with magical characters. After Grandmother Willow, there was Grandmother Fa in Mulan and Moana's Grandmother who both spout out wisdom while cracking one-liners. Very repetitive and boring now. The ironic thing is that when Grandmother Willow was created for Pocahontas, they did so because the tired cliche was in fact making a wise old man since originally Pocahontas was supposed to confide in Old Man River.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:36 pm 
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Excellent topic, Sotiris. My personal components for my ideal Disney movie would be:

- First and foremost the movie should have great music. Regardless of the movie should be a musical or not. The score and the songs must be great and sound like Disney.

- Having great, compelling, likable characters. Regardless of them being villains, heroes or sidekicks (but since Disney are practically synonymous with a great villain, it should have one).

- Having great visuals. Regardless of being CGI or hand drawn.

- Overall, the movie must be good enough to warrant several re-watches.

- The movie has to look and feel Disney. All from it´s character designs, environment and ect. And having all the archetypical Disney components that Disney is known for.

- Having a compelling, resonant plot and a good script.

- Being based on a fairy tale, folktale or myth. But I don´t mind exceptions once in a while.


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