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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:09 pm 
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I specifically and purposefully excluded asexual people from my rhetorical question. If Disney wants to make Elsa asexual, I'm all for it but they haven't addressed her sexuality either way yet. They don't get to take credit for doing nothing.

I'm sorry Sotiris, I had no idea what allosexual was and had never heard of the term (I just looked it up, gawd I feel so dumb!) I thought it was a typo! :oops: :smack:

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:21 pm 
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Atlantica wrote:
Irrespective of Disney ‘playing it safe’ but not having Elsa have a partner at all, I firmly believe it’s for the best anyway. You don’t HAVE to be coupled up ! It isn’t the sole aim of life; feel good about you, and what makes you..well, you ! There isn’t anything wrong with that, and it should be so celebrated.
I don't necessarily believe it's Disney playing safe--Disney seems to do things that piss people here off all the time, which is the opposite of "safe," so I don't think a LGBT romance would've been off the table if that's where Jennifer Lee wanted to go--but I agree with you that part of why Elsa was seen as revolutionary for a "Disney princess" character is both that she was powerful in a way that typically for Disney only female villains have been and romance didn't enter into her storyline whatsoever. She doesn't need a romance, although I was open to whatever direction Lee wanted to go for the sequel.

farerb wrote:
I still feel like the concept of Frozen 2 is contrived. All this spirits and fantastical creatures might not contradict the film's world since we know there is magic and trolls, but the first film was really about humans, Elsa's powers were not the conflict but what created the conflict. The true conflict was the relationship between the sisters. Frozen 2 seems to make Elsa's powers the focus and it's the two sisters against evil spirits, but no real conflict between them. They really are afraid to put a bad light on them or have some kind of moral ambiguity (which is why I think Life's Too Short was cut, a mistake in my opinion).

Long story short, I feel like Frozen 2 really is about making the story to be an "epic fantasy" and I personally never felt like Frozen is a "Lord of the Rings" kind of story, but more a smaller intimate story about a relationship between two sisters. I don't know how I feel about this direction, I guess I'll have to wait and see.

I doubt that's true, considering the first film already did both of those things. As for the rest, I can't say this feels like a deviation from the first film or a move away from what people wanted out of a sequel. Most of the first film is Anna traveling up and down the mountain, meeting the trolls, dealing with Marshmallow, etc., so wandering through woods and exploring isn't a new thing. And I think most people want to see Elsa use her powers in a "big" way--"Let It Go" is the scene that made the film larger-than-life after all--and you can't really do that without some kind of physical conflict. I think the sisters' relationship will still be a focus, but there won't necessarily be a conflict between them this time; it would be hard to create a conflict between them now that they have no secrets between them.

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:31 pm 
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A new French article confirms what you suspected, Sotiris, that all the four elements are represented by sentient spirits. It also gives more details about the symbols representing the four elements, the magic forest, and the fog that surrounds it (translated by an online translator, mild spoilers):

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The spirits

Marlon West: "The Nokk [or Nixe, a water genius in Norse mythology] is one of the biggest challenges we've faced on this film, because it's present under and on the water. He must behave like a horse while also being a spirit. It disintegrates, moves into the shapeless water and then regains its body. Some parts of his body act in a certain way when they are in the open and in another way underwater. It is a translucent horse that swims underwater: how can we see it?

These spirits in relation to the elements [fire, water, wind, earth] are actually quite difficult to animate because they do not correspond to any rigging traditionally used in animation [rigging is a process that allows objects to have a skeleton]. The Nokk looks like a horse, but its tail does not correspond to the rigging.

The spirit of the wind, on the other hand, has no shape: when this character intervenes, it is quite a challenge, because he has a strong personality and we must animate him in the most delicate and subtle way possible, without dialogue, just through clothes that float , leaves that fly away... The spirit of fire, which can be seen in the trailer, also communicates in a different way: it moves like flames, but has been animated like a human being."

Pabbie

Marlon West: "Pabbie was already present in the first film - almost all the characters from the first film make an appearance in the sequel. What's interesting about this character is that the rigging [or flushing] has been updated. The textures of the characters and the detail of the hair are now much more sophisticated than when we made the first film."

Becky Bresee: "The challenge is that these characters look as much as possible as they were five years ago while improving them graphically thanks to the new technologies that were invented between the two films."

Marlon West: "You learn a lot from working on these kinds of films. The studio has released four films [Big Hero 6, Zootopia, Moana, Ralph Breaks the Internet] since the release of Frozen and advances in technology have been very important, especially for everything related to hair animation."

The crystals

Marlon West: "It's the magic created by Elsa."

Becky Bresee: "She's getting stronger and stronger..."

Marlon West: "These symbols that we see in the film - and on the poster of the film - represent the four elements: fire, water, wind, earth. I know they raise a lot of questions on the Internet, but I try not to watch the fan speculations! These crystals emanate from the same place as Elsa's snow and ice. She has no ice reserve: her magic unfolds through what surrounds her."

The magic forest

Becky Bresee: "This is the magical forest in which Elsa, Anna and Kristoff enter. That's where the elements are...

Marlon West: "The forest is shrouded in a fog that keeps people trapped inside, but also outside. The first part of Frozen was actually held in the summer. The kingdom of Arendelle was trapped in an eternal winter so the film was covered with ice and snow. The second part takes place this time in the fall, so we have explored all the orange ranges. We have worked hard to make the sets match both the snow queen and Norway - although Arendelle is a fictional kingdom, we draw on reality to design our world. In the case of Frozen, we were very inspired by Norway, especially the flora that can be found there. Artistic director of the two Frozen films [and many Disney classics like Pocahontas], Michael Giaimo has helped us a lot. He's a genius for all colors and shapes. He excels at finding the perfect color to tell the story."

The mysterious fog

Marlon West: "We wanted this fog to be both friendly and a little threatening. That was our biggest challenge on this stage. We always try to mix these two aspects to surprise the spectators. Anna and Elsa are as attracted to this place. This wall of fog lets the characters in and then close on them... What is on the other side? We have often been asked if Frozen 2 is darker than the first film. The short answer is 'yes', although the film is also not much darker than the first film, which already contained some rather sad moments. This second part will have scenes that are both moving and hilarious."

Becky Bresee: "This mixture works very well. You'll feel like you're seeing the first Frozen! The second has just more scope, it is more epic! And there are six lovely new songs, always written by the [Oscar-winning] duo Kristin and Robert Lopez."


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:23 am 
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In the first film, Anna and Elsa's conflict was Elsa didn't know how to control her powers. They are now dealing with her powers again in this sequel. It fits.

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:30 am 
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If the filmmakers decide to give Elsa a love interest, then they would probably do it in a way that works for the character, rather than because they feel they have to or to earn brownie points. But if they don't give Elsa a love interest, I think that's a good message to send, too. I think society puts too much pressure on people to get romantically involved with someone or married. We see this frequently in movies, where people who aren't in a romantic relationship are portrayed as sad and pathetic until they eventually meet a man or woman who loves them. And that's not a good message to send to people, in my opinion. There are plenty of people who are perfectly content and satisfied being single for the time being.

Maybe romance just isn't a major priority for Elsa. She's certainly got more important things to worry about, rather than finding a man or woman to marry.

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:20 am 
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So the fog is going to be a little like the ocean in Moana?


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:00 am 
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estefan wrote:
If the filmmakers decide to give Elsa a love interest, then they would probably do it in a way that works for the character, rather than because they feel they have to or to earn brownie points. But if they don't give Elsa a love interest, I think that's a good message to send, too. I think society puts too much pressure on people to get romantically involved with someone or married. We see this frequently in movies, where people who aren't in a romantic relationship are portrayed as sad and pathetic until they eventually meet a man or woman who loves them. And that's not a good message to send to people, in my opinion. There are plenty of people who are perfectly content and satisfied being single for the time being.

Maybe romance just isn't a major priority for Elsa. She's certainly got more important things to worry about, rather than finding a man or woman to marry.


Absolutely agree with you, that’s what I was trying to articulate before but not as eloquently as you have :)


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:32 pm 
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So who do you think will get a song?
My guesses are:
A song - Elsa.
A song - Anna.
Duet - Elsa and Anna.
Duet - Anna and Kristof
A song - Olaf
Two songs for new characters or one song for a new character and one song for the trolls (though I really hope not).


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:42 pm 
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Quote:
I think that's a good message to send, too. I think society puts too much pressure on people to get romantically involved with someone or married. We see this frequently in movies, where people who aren't in a romantic relationship are portrayed as sad and pathetic until they eventually meet a man or woman who loves them.


oh boy does it ever! There's even a whole film that whimsically criticizes this called The Lobster. In it anyone who doesn't end up in a relationship before the age of 40(or 35?, I actually haven't seen it yet but its in my Netflix queue) is forced to be turned into an animal. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:30 pm 
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unprincess wrote:

oh boy does it ever! There's even a whole film that whimsically criticizes this called The Lobster. In it anyone who doesn't end up in a relationship before the age of 40(or 35?, I actually haven't seen it yet but its in my Netflix queue) is forced to be turned into an animal. :lol:

I've seen that film and it's a great watch! Super funny as a black comedy but it can be quite disturbing as well. It's from the same director who made the Oscar-nominated The Favourite (and also features two of the same actresses from that film, Rachel Weisz and Olivia Coleman).


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:41 pm 
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It looks like Broadway stars Jessie Mueller (whom I saw twice on stage) and Keala Settle (aka the Bearded Lay in GSM) are in the movie :dance: :dance: :dance: :rock: :rock: :rock:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bw26asRBRpQ/

Plus, Keala just posted this:

https://www.instagram.com/p/ByyJ5iSHp_x ... _copy_link


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:19 pm 
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they released a Kristoff synopsis today and its causing a lil' bit of Tumblr drama. :shock: :P

https://tenshichan1013.tumblr.com/post/ ... 2-kristoff

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:14 pm 
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Oh, yay @ Keala Settle.

Is it true that Frozen 2 takes place three years after the first film? That’s a bigger gap than I’d expect. If it's been that long, then, yes, I expect Anna and Kristoff's relationship to be very far along. Maybe Frozen 3 opens with their wedding? :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:29 pm 
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unprincess wrote:
they released a Kristoff synopsis today and its causing a lil' bit of Tumblr drama. :shock: :P
https://tenshichan1013.tumblr.com/post/ ... 2-kristoff

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Kristoff wants a Family? That's really a big step for his character, due to his former trope as a loner on it's predecessor. And really progressive for a Disney love interest for a Princess, due to that those males has never outrightly stated that they want to have a family (correct me if I'm wrong about this). It truly shows that Disney is getting more sophisticated and progressive with their storylines

Disney's Divinity wrote:
Is it true that Frozen 2 takes place three years after the first film? That’s a bigger gap than I’d expect. If it's been that long, then, yes, I expect Anna and Kristoff's relationship to be very far along. Maybe Frozen 3 opens with their wedding? :wink:

Well, I was expecting a bigger gap, due to the six years between this movie and it's predecessor. But perhaps it may be a deliberate reason, due to not wanting to have Moana have a cameo in the movie and sparking an another theory of a crossover related universe :P


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:40 pm 
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^ I can believe their relationship will be more sophisticated than expected for a Disney film since the first film ended with Anna and Kristoff treating their relationship more realistically in contrast to the fairytale garbage she had with Hans.

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:47 pm 
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DisneyFan09 wrote:
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Kristoff wants a Family? That's really a big step for his character, due to his former trope as a loner on it's predecessor. And really progressive for a Disney love interest for a Princess, due to that those males has never outrightly stated that they want to have a family (correct me if I'm wrong about this). It truly shows that Disney is getting more sophisticated and progressive with their storylines

Well, we've seen Eric and Phoebus as fathers. Aladdin spends King of Thieves reflecting on how he doesn't think he'll be a good father to future kids he has with Jasmine after their marriage because his own was absent. I haven't bothered with the Tangled TV show, but I've heard that Flynn repeatedly has asked Rapunzel to marry him and I think kids were mentioned.


Last edited by JeanGreyForever on Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:16 pm 
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okay I hatethe 3 year gap, I think its way too long! that's about a 2 year gap where Anna and Elsa have had to adjust to their sibling relationship again and Kristoff has had to adjust being in a relationship with someone of royalty. That would seem interesting dramatic material that you'd think Disney would want to show us!? I mean its possible that after 3 years they are still in adjustment mode but, I dunno, its just so odd to me, i guess b/c Im more used to how quickly time moves in animated films(just look at Hotel Transylvania, by the 2nd film Mavis is a married mom with a toddler!.) :o
Dont get me wrong, I like that they are going slow but I dont think they should've chosen to set it 3 years later...

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:37 pm 
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I'm generally surprised about this time gap because the Frozen shorts all take place shortly after the original movie. Frozen Fever is Anna's first birthday since Frozen and the Holiday Special is the sisters' first Christmas together. They mentioned that the short films were set in a linear pattern to lead up to Frozen 2 so I always assumed Frozen 2 would take place just a couple of months after Olaf's Frozen Adventure. Clearly not the case which is a shame. I hope they didn't create such a significant time gap just because they wanted Anna and Kristoff to marry and they felt it wouldn't be acceptable otherwise.


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:50 pm 
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JeanGreyForever wrote:
Clearly not the case which is a shame. I hope they didn't create such a significant time gap just because they wanted Anna and Kristoff to marry and they felt it wouldn't be acceptable otherwise.

That's probably it. I mean they already did it with Tangled in the epilogue.

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:28 pm 
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unprincess wrote:
Dont get me wrong, I like that they are going slow but I dont think they should've chosen to set it 3 years later...
Yeah, I didn't expect there to be more than a 6 month gap. :lol: In real life, people often get married 6 months to a year after they've begun dating. I mean, it can be longer than that and there's nothing wrong with it, but that's probably not as common. I'm just going by a comment in that tumblr link you posted, which is why I said it with a question mark because I was unsure if it was true. Maybe there isn't that big of a gap? Sounds odd.

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