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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:44 am 
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Disney debuted new scenes at an animation festival in France this week. More details here:

https://variety.com/2019/film/festivals ... 203243367/


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:32 am 
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The French poster is so much better!

All of the scenes sounds great! Glad we're getting a scene of the main 4 just hanging out, playing a game. And I hope the beginning is a opening number. I would love to hear the King sing and it would really set the mood for the movie.


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:10 pm 
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The new poster is beautiful. As someone here mentioned, there's such a difference between the posters for the first movie and the ones for Frozen 2.

megustajake wrote:
Disney debuted new scenes at an animation festival in France this week. More details here:

https://variety.com/2019/film/festivals ... 203243367/

Thanks, megustajake. The Hollywood Reporter also gives some details about the presentation: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/ ... cy-1218383

And an attendee has recorded a video in which she describes the footage shown in more detail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oit1bWok8bI

Though they showed several scenes, they still didn't reveal much about the mystery or any new characters aside from the Nokk. What they revealed was interesting though.


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:11 pm 
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Lithograph given at Annecy.

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Source: https://twitter.com/LePrinceKido/status ... 4645757953

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:19 pm 
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^Great piece of concept art!

This article gives more details about the Annecy presentation, including the news that singer Aurora sings in the movie: https://www.ed92.org/exclusive-enchante ... -spoilers/


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:39 pm 
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I prefer the first poster, personally, but this is alright. I like that it relates to the title. The forest is "frozen." Although I'm jealous France gets to call it The Snow Queen the way it should be.

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:47 pm 
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Becky Bresee and Marlon West, head of animation and head of effects animation respectively, pretty much confirmed at Annecy that Elsa won't have a romantic relationship in the film and also that there will be seven new songs:

Quote:
Will Elsa find love in this second installment?

Marlon West: Elsa is not the kind of character that is defined by a romantic relationship. She is on a personal quest, she is still trying to find out who she is ... She has more in mind the idea of ​​protecting her family and uncovering the origin of her powers.
Source: https://www.programme-tv.net/news/cinem ... lm-repond/

Quote:
The only thing missing from the presentation was the music and the songs. Robert Lopez and Kristen Anderson Lopez have not been idle. "They wrote seven original titles as strong as those of Frozen," announces Chris Bresee. What make you want to be already in November.
Source: https://www.20minutes.fr/arts-stars/cin ... val-annecy


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:43 pm 
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Repeating Sotrisis, I didn't believe in lesbian Elsa for a second. Disney would not risk its biggest franchise by angering the consumers, which are the parents of little kids. And like someone said, Elsa's sexuality is a "Damn if you do, damn if you don't." Elsa not having a love interest (for now anyway) is the safest route to please everybody. To the poster who said there wouldn't be real anger with straight Elsa, you have not met the SJWs of Tumblr and Twitter. :huh:

Sorry for not looking up the names, I'm tired :lol:

Could there be a side gay character? Sure, but again: It's all about consumerism and outrage from Mom and Dad. Any mention is enough to set a fire at Fox News and Conservative Social Media.


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:55 am 
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disneyprincess11 wrote:
Repeating Sotrisis, I didn't believe in lesbian Elsa for a second. Disney would not risk its biggest franchise by angering the consumers, which are the parents of little kids. And like someone said, Elsa's sexuality is a "Damn if you do, damn if you don't." Elsa not having a love interest (for now anyway) is the safest route to please everybody. To the poster who said there wouldn't be real anger with straight Elsa, you have not met the SJWs of Tumblr and Twitter. :huh:
And I do not need to. I feel very confident in saying there wouldn’t be a boycott even by these dreaded “Social Justice Warriors” if Elsa had a male love interest. Just typing that out, the idea sounds incredibly stupid on its face and it's actually disgusting to even read it talked about seriously. But clearly people here believe lots of things are possible that sound stupid to me all the time, like the whole to-do over "Be Prepared" that turned out to be a lie.

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Could there be a side gay character? Sure, but again: It's all about consumerism and outrage from Mom and Dad. Any mention is enough to set a fire at Fox News and Conservative Social Media.
I'm guessing that crowd hates Frozen already anyway. I'm just going by the SJW-laced rants here about Kristoff asking Anna if he could kiss her, the anger over Anna's insta-love with Hans turning out to be a comment poking at Disney's past, and the mob that went after Kristen Bell.

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:55 am 
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I really wish sometimes that the conversation around Frozen wasn't so hyperbolic. I feel like I can't say anything positive or negative cause someone is going to yell at me.

I liked the French poster and I like the fact that there'll be 7 new songs, hopefully this time they'll spread them throughout the film and not 5 in the beginning, 2 in the middle and then nothing. The first Frozen could have benefited from having a few reprises.

I still feel like the concept of Frozen 2 is contrived. All this spirits and fantastical creatures might not contradict the film's world since we know there is magic and trolls, but the first film was really about humans, Elsa's powers were not the conflict but what created the conflict. The true conflict was the relationship between the sisters. Frozen 2 seems to make Elsa's powers the focus and it's the two sisters against evil spirits, but no real conflict between them. They really are afraid to put a bad light on them or have some kind of moral ambiguity (which is why I think Life's Too Short was cut, a mistake in my opinion).

Long story short, I feel like Frozen 2 really is about making the story to be an "epic fantasy" and I personally never felt like Frozen is a "Lord of the Rings" kind of story, but more a smaller intimate story about a relationship between two sisters. I don't know how I feel about this direction, I guess I'll have to wait and see.


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:29 am 
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I’m just sitting here, wondering how this movie is going to top its predecessor and that one’s songs. The first Frozen is a Disney juggernaut and its anthem “Let It Go” has more covers than Anna Kendrick’s “Cups”.


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:39 am 
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DisneyJedi wrote:
I’m just sitting here, wondering how this movie is going to top its predecessor and that one’s songs. The first Frozen is a Disney juggernaut and its anthem “Let It Go” has more covers than Anna Kendrick’s “Cups”.


It might not and I hope they don't focus on that instead of doing what's best for the story and characters.


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:07 am 
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I get what you're saying, farerb but what other route could they have gone with instead of opening up the world and its mythology for the sequel? Having something else come between Anna and Elsa would come off as contrived and drama just for the sake of it. I suppose they could have dealt with the trauma both of them endured during their years of isolation and how it still affects their relationship but Disney doesn't do nuance like that. You are right about Life's Too Short; it was too real and raw and uncomfortable and that's why it was cut. They opted for something that doesn't require any unpleasant sentiments and moral complexity from its characters.

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:36 am 
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I guess you're right Sotiris, expanding the world is really their best option, better than having some misunderstanding coming between the sisters.
Regardless, I can't wait to have our first taste of the songs. It has been a long time since the last Disney musical and those are my favorites.


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:10 pm 
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Irrespective of Disney ‘playing it safe’ but not having Elsa have a partner at all, I firmly believe it’s for the best anyway. You don’t HAVE to be coupled up ! It isn’t the sole aim of life; feel good about you, and what makes you..well, you ! There isn’t anything wrong with that, and it should be so celebrated.


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:29 pm 
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I agree that's an important message but if we're treating fictional characters as real people is it really fair to deprive Elsa of romance? Why does Anna get to experience that but not her? Can allosexual people who never had a romantic partner or a love life be genuinely happy and fulfilled?

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:15 pm 
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farerb wrote:
I still feel like the concept of Frozen 2 is contrived. All this spirits and fantastical creatures might not contradict the film's world since we know there is magic and trolls, but the first film was really about humans, Elsa's powers were not the conflict but what created the conflict. The true conflict was the relationship between the sisters. Frozen 2 seems to make Elsa's powers the focus and it's the two sisters against evil spirits, but no real conflict between them. They really are afraid to put a bad light on them or have some kind of moral ambiguity (which is why I think Life's Too Short was cut, a mistake in my opinion).

I definitely agree that Disney doesn't seem to want to portray the sisterly relationship in any negative light, despite how unrealistic that is. Life's Too Short rightfully demonstrated Anna's anger at being neglected for so long. Her feelings are justified but in the final film, they're whitewashed so that she continues to play the loving and supportive sister and the Frozen shorts since have followed up on that. Lilo & Stitch was able to still convincingly portray a sisterly relationship that was loving but could be fraught with friction as well. We get shades of that from Elsa's point-of-view in Frozen, but never from Anna so it's no wonder people dismiss her as happy-go-lucky or plain stupid.

Sotiris wrote:
I agree that's an important message but if we're treating fictional characters as real people is it really fair to deprive Elsa of romance? Why does Anna get to experience that but not her? Can allosexual people who never had a romantic partner or a love life be genuinely happy and fulfilled?

I think the idea is that unlike Anna, Elsa doesn't really desire additional companionship right now. Part of this is realistic since the character is still finding herself after 21 years so throwing herself into a relationship wouldn't make much sense, especially with her added responsibilities of being a ruler. She's only just learned to accept and love herself and it's more important for her to continue on that path while repairing relations with Anna, especially since she still feels guilt for their emotional distance as seen in the Frozen shorts. In this movie, the premise seems to be fixated around the origin of Elsa's powers and a mystery behind her parents so as she's going to continue discovering herself as well as make peace with her family, a love interest would likely feel shoehorned. Perhaps a possible love interest can be introduced in this film but nothing will really develop until an inevitable Frozen 3.


Last edited by JeanGreyForever on Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:18 pm 
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Quote:
Can allosexual people who never had a romantic partner or a love life be genuinely happy and fulfilled?


^as someone who considers themselves asexual, I feel like I should make a comment regrading this, but that means getting into some really personal stuff that I don't feel comfortable doing here(that and its just not what I'm here for). So I'll just say that yes, I think someone can be happy being alone....



back to Frozen 2...anyone else getting a Princess Mononoke vibe with the whole war b/w the elemental spirits and humans? Kinda odd for Disney to be taking this direction with the depiction of the spiritual side of nature, usually the natural world has been depicted as something positive(think Pocahontas, Moana and Brother Bear) so making them villains(or antagonistic) is really something new for them. I wonder if they've been corrupted somehow (like in Mononoke with the lodged bullets turning the animal gods into demons) and that's what the gang have to set right?

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:51 pm 
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JeanGreyForever wrote:
I definitely agree that Disney doesn't seem to want to portray the sisterly relationship in any negative light, despite how unrealistic that is. Life's Too Short rightfully demonstrated Anna's anger at being neglected for so long. Her feelings are justified but in the final film, they're whitewashed so that she continues to play the loving and supportive sister and the Frozen shorts since have followed up on that. Lilo & Stitch was able to still convincingly portray a sisterly relationship that was loving but could be fraught with friction as well.

Couldn't agree more. They didn't want to deal with the unpleasantness of trauma and how it doesn't just go away after a conflict or a misunderstanding is resolved. Lilo and Nani's relationship is still the most authentic and believable sibling relationship Disney has ever portrayed.

JeanGreyForever wrote:
I think the idea is that unlike Anna, Elsa doesn't really desire additional companionship right now. Part of this is realistic since the character is still finding herself after 21 years so throwing herself into a relationship wouldn't make much sense, especially with her added responsibilities of being a ruler. She's only just learned to accept and love herself and it's more important for her to continue on that path while repairing relations with Anna, especially since she still feels guilt for their emotional distance as seen in the Frozen shorts. In this movie, the premise seems to be fixated around the origin of Elsa's powers and a mystery behind her parents so as she's going to continue discovering herself as well as make peace with her family, a love interest would likely feel shoehorned. Perhaps a possible love interest can be introduced in this film but nothing will really develop until an inevitable Frozen 3.

I agree. Narratively speaking, it's believable she hasn't been interested in romance yet but I was talking in general. Personally, I don't believe they'll ever give her a love interest. People are too divided over this and Disney's aware of that.

unprincess wrote:
As someone who considers themselves asexual.

I specifically and purposefully excluded asexual people from my rhetorical question. If Disney wants to make Elsa asexual, I'm all for it but they haven't addressed her sexuality either way yet. They don't get to take credit for doing nothing.

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:54 pm 
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Regarding the horse in the trailer:

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/06/froze ... 202150295/

Quote:
In the next scene, Elsa is shown running “headlong into dark and ominous water and massive crashing waves. The clip showed an intense and graphically-satisfying magical battle between Elsa and a horse-shaped water spirit on the spirit’s home turf.” Part of that scene has already been shown in the film’s first two trailers.

Per Disney, the sprit is a “Nokk — a mythical water spirit that takes the form of a horse — who uses the power of the ocean to guard the secrets of the forest.”


That's kind of creative freedom. Traditionally the "nokk", apparently called the nix in england, is an evil creature who drowns People, especially children (and most often lived in lakes, ponds and rivers), and can take on various forms, often a white horse:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... et%292.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... t_hest.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... t_hest.jpg


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