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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2 (2018?)
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 12:37 am 
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My take is just because an actor says something doesn't mean it will come true.


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2 (2018?)
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 2:52 am 
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thelittleursula wrote:
Sky Syndrome wrote:
Noooo! Quite a lot of us love hating on Hans and don't want him to reform!


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Some people ACTUALLY like him as a villian/ character and he's a important character whether they redeem him or not, hence why he's usually on posters and never somebody like the Duke + his henchmen.

I hate Maleficent and you don't see me complaining everytime she's on screen during Sleeping Beauty.

And you don't want him to reform ? Why ? If he does he'll be a BETTER PERSON.

* insert lady cluck mode *

I am one of those people who likes him as a villain/character. Villains are suppose to be for people to love to hate. Ursula is one of my favorite Disney villains even while I'm satisfied by the good gal/guys defeating her. Maleificent is also a favorite Disney villain of mine.

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2 (2018?)
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 5:21 am 
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Exactly! You can love a villain without needing them to have a happy ending :roll: They're villains! And they're not real people :lol:

If anything Hans needed more of a comeuppance than what he got considering how manipulative and evil he had been. A larger scale final battle would have been exciting and added to his character too. The final scene is very dramatic and emotional, but Hans isn't really the focus. Maybe that's why people don't realize what a piece of shit he really is. It's like they're in denial and think that "nice guy" Hans is still in there deep down.

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2 (2018?)
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 8:53 am 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
Fflewduur wrote:

Yeah, I never said that.
Really? Because that's where this whole "off-topic" thing you kept going began. :roll:

Quote:
Why does your opinion matter more than those of the people who actually make motion pictures?
Why do you need to evade the point?

Everything in that page you posted discusses the film as an artistic failure, and did Neal Gabler speak to Walt personally because there is no quote there. The film still made more than its colossal budget, which was a colossal intake. Nothing about its intake was a "failure," more the idea of pouring money a higher degree of animation than normal (even for those days) that was unnecessary was a failure.


What I said was that being a princess film is no guarantee of success. And I'm not evading the point. The general consensus, stated over and over again by authors who have done the research, is that the studio saw the film as neither artistically nor financially successful in its time. Period.

Interestingly, there are sources that say the film only grossed $5.3M on its initial run, which is at odds with the other quoted $7.1M figure and would put the film *well* under recouping its production costs; there are also sources that put the film’s budget at $4M, and Walt is quoted at the film’s premiere as saying to Milt Kahl “Well, Milt, so *that’s* what I spent $4 million for?”

But the actual numbers are irrelevant. What you see as a “colossal intake” was actually a poor enough return that Walt told Eric Larson “I don’t think we can continue [with feature-length animation]; it’s just too expensive.” After Sleeping Beauty, Walt all but turned his back on feature animation. More than 400 artists were laid off from the animation studio, including folks who’d worked for Walt for thirty years—one of them, an inker named Dick Anthony, shot himself after getting pink-slipped. Is that what the aftermath of a *success* looks like?

It's not like this is a new or unusual circumstance--Disney history is littered with films that fared poorly but *endured*; it's a tentpole of the studio's historical narrative. Insisting on one's right to a personal opinion doesn't change the facts any more than saying the sky is yellow.

jazzflower92 wrote:
My take is just because an actor says something doesn't mean it will come true.


Truth.

The unique thing about Frozen is its central conflict, which is more about Elsa’s struggle to accept herself—I don’t think that’s been done in a Disney film before. There are three dimensions of dramatic conflict: man against the world, man against man, and man against self (again, you’ll forgive the potentially unintentional sexist language; that’s just the shorthand in which the concept is typically taught). The core is Elsa’s internal struggle, and it manifests in ways that affect her familial relationships, the way her subjects perceive her, and pretty much the basic survival of her kingdom. That’s pretty rich stuff. It’s hard to see a high-stakes way that can be duplicated in a follow-up.

Redemption usually makes for a good story. But Hans? He’s really not even a hugely important part of the narrative: he doesn’t drive the plot or the main turning events of the story, and his villainy doesn’t play a major role until near the story’s end. And he’s *cold* (you’ll pardon the expression). Keeping his agenda hidden, going so far as to attempt murder to achieve his objective—it’s a real uphill battle to generate enough empathy that an audience would *want* him to be redeemed.

The conflict could somehow revolve around another falling-out between the sisters. That would be high-stakes…but it’s also been dealt with and resolved once already. Or it could involve Elsa’s losing her powers somehow in a context that places everyone at peril, but there’s a real danger that could only seem contrived.

Basically we’ve got to trust that the creatives know these characters better than we do, and that they can come up with a compelling story that’s not going to seem like an artificial extension of the original film. Maybe it’ll happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2 (2018?)
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 9:12 am 
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jazzflower92 wrote:
My take is just because an actor says something doesn't mean it will come true.

Exactly. It's very rare for actors to be involved in the story and decision-making process on animated films, unless they are actively involved in a main production role (e.g. Jerry Seinfeld on Bee Movie).

John C Reilly said at Comic Con 2012 that the Super Mario Bros weren't in Wreck-It Ralph because they were too expensive, a joke that was then reported in the media as true and then Moore had to clear the whole thing up in many an interview.

Why would the voice-actor for Hans be privy to information for an animated movie that might not happen or, if it does, won't be for another number of years and likely doesn't even have a script written yet. Not to mention the millions of rewrites and changes animated features go through during production (Elsa was even changed from a villain to a more sympathetic figure quite late in the writing process).

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2 (2018?)
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 10:50 am 
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Right now, the writers and the cast only have an idea according to Santino Fontana. Disney is not going to go in a hooplah if Santino Fontana knows about an idea for sequel that hasn't been green-lit. A sequel is plausible and advantageous considering that the original was successful.

Here are two possible outcomes:

1) Disney discovers disinformation about a Frozen sequel (from multiple sources) has been spread and confirms that these are only rumours

2) The sequel become green-lit meaning that Buck and Lee know their shit. But it is not likely it would be put into production quickly like a Cars sequel


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2 (2018?)
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 10:56 am 
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Candy-Bonita95 wrote:
But it is not likely it would be put into production quickly like a Cars sequel


Yeah, there are other films to make between now and then. I imagine the real focus at the moment is putting together a quality stage adaptation for Disney Theatrical.

I'm not hugely fond of these Disney Broadway productions in principle, but they sure do offer designers some amazing opportunities. Spectacle is one of the Aristotelian theatrical elements that tends to get short shrift since the budgetary demands are tremendous. Having the backing to solve the production problem of putting "Let It Go" on a stage must be tremendously exciting.


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2 (2018?)
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 12:37 pm 
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I say we drop Hans and focus on a new villain. Something a little bit more intimidating and powerful, maybe like a sorcerer that fights and is a match against Elsa...

The idea of Elsa losing her powers also sounds interesting.

As long as there's nothing like "Elsa falls in love with the Fire Prince Zuko" or Elsa meeting other benders ala Rise of the Guardians/Avatar everything will be fine.

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2 (2018?)
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 12:49 pm 
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thedisneyspirit wrote:

The idea of Elsa losing her powers also sounds interesting.

As long as there's nothing like "Elsa falls in love with the Fire Prince Zuko" or Elsa meeting other benders ala Rise of the Guardians/Avatar everything will be fine.


My concern is that there would be some sort of explanation where the powers come from--I think the time for that came and went with the first film. Best just to leave it alone at this point. It's not like there was ever a rationale behind the Evil Queen or Maleficent or Ursula...magic is magic. Start codifying it too closely and its no longer magical.


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2 (2018?)
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 1:02 pm 
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I think the idea of a sequel is absurd. The only way I would even think about a sequel is if they treated the first movie like a prequel to Anderson's Snow Queen. There could be three other queens/princesses of each season like in the story. Something could happen causing all of their powers to explode and go insane and then Anna would have to journey through the seasons to find Elsa who is maybe kidnapped by the person causing the extreme powers. Or they could reverse the story and Elsa must journey to find Anna who has been taken for some reason. They could even make the devil/goblin/troll the villain. That's the only place my mind has gone when I hear sequel talk.


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2 (2018?)
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 8:12 pm 
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Lady Cluck wrote:
Exactly! You can love a villain without needing them to have a happy ending :roll:
I agree.

Candy-Bonita95 wrote:
1) Disney discovers disinformation about a Frozen sequel (from multiple sources) has been spread and confirms that these are only rumours
I could see them confirming the information that's swirling as "only rumors," but to me that wouldn't put the kibosh on them considering they'd say that about anything concerning a Frozen sequel since they haven't confirmed its existence yet.

thedisneyspirit wrote:
I say we drop Hans and focus on a new villain. Something a little bit more intimidating and powerful, maybe like a sorcerer that fights and is a match against Elsa...

The idea of Elsa losing her powers also sounds interesting.
I would love both these storyline ideas, so I hope they go with one of them at least. Plus, as far as Frozen's feminist take on some of Disney's main tropes, having Elsa be the only one who can overcome villain X would be fairly new for Disney. The only princesses who really defeated the villain at the end were Mulan and Tiana.

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2 (2018?)
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 8:27 pm 
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But Mulan had assistance from Mushu though.


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2 (2018?)
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 9:31 pm 
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frankf3 wrote:
But Mulan had assistance from Mushu though.


Was still her plan though. Anyways most of the heroes had help too.


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2 (2018?)
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 12:06 am 
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If they did a sequel maybe have the villain be based on a character from the original story. I actually would want the character to be based on the old woman who kept the ever blooming garden. Or maybe do a prequel backstory of the origin of Elsa's powers. Plus have it focus on an ancestor of Elsa and Anna who first got the power of ice. And have it focus on the royal family's history with the trolls as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Snow_Queen


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2 (2018?)
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 8:51 am 
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Here's a possible story line that I posted in the Frozen thread. Not sure if I'd actually want another frozen movie, but it's an idea anyway and the parents part can be removed:

Hogi Bear wrote:
As an idea (I'm not sure if I like it or not), what if a sequel involved Elsa and Anna finding out that their parents were not dead. Say someone comes along and says there is a rumour that the King and Queen are stuck or held captive on an island or an underwater city (Atlantis, as an example) and can not escape. There are variations on what you could do. This story could have Anna and Elsa go on a mission to find them and bring them home. In regards to the Atlantis setting, we could have Elsa using her powers to create a tunnel in the water to the city/settlement. This could open up a setting where you could have a villian with magical power (eg an evil Sorcerer has them or whatever) or a cursed land which people can get lost in like a dream (or neither of these). Who knows, you could even add a bit of an origin story for Elsa's magic (the Sea took their parents to the underwater city/settlement because it felt a link to them). A few ideas anyway.
From viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31254&start=3320#p666208

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2 (2018?)
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 6:34 am 
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Kristen Bell and Maya Rudolph decided to come up with Frozen 2 and sang about it :)



Kristen sounded great live!

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2 (2018?)
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 1:23 pm 
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It figures. Disney changed that movie to CGI, and they want to milk CGI for all it's worth. That's their agenda.

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2 (2018?)
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 3:37 pm 
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I believe that it's moreso that they want to milk the 1 billion+ gross for all of its worth. :P

That's very understandable. The only movie that has grossed over a billion that has not already spawned a sequel, has a sequel in any stage of production or is a sequel is Titanic, which is based off of a single historical event anyway. If billions of people paid to watch your movie, even if only a fraction of those people paid to see the sequel, it will probably still net a profit.

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2 (2018?)
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 3:43 pm 
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Tangled wrote:
I believe that it's moreso that they want to milk the 1 billion+ gross for all of its worth. :P


Which they don't deserve to have at all considering the kind of backstabbing things they did in the process of making the film and how unfairly 2D animation has been treated by them. You know what they say: "The ends don't justify the means".

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2 (2018?)
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 3:52 pm 
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I think it would be really interesting if Disney didn't do a sequel. Went against the grain and felt they didn't need to make one because the first went into the billion dollar club.

That could be a real step in the right direction for not everything that's successful being made into a franchise.


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