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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:50 am 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
Yes, I remember that and I remember wishing that had been the ending. I mean, I understand why Disney the corporation wouldn't want to do that, so many girls idolize the character and they'd leave the theater in tears--and more importantly, it might have temporarily harmed Elsa's merchandise sales! :roll: --but I think it would've been a phenomenal ending leading into Frozen 3. I think it would've been received a little better, too.

I agree. It would have been better. It may not have solved all the film's issues (mainly being overstuffed and convoluted), but a bold, bittersweet ending would have earned it goodwill with audiences and critics. The ending we got was unearned. It didn't make sense separating the sisters when Elsa can travel from Ahtohallan to Arendelle in, like, the speed of light. She could have easily stayed in Arendelle and travel occasionally to the Enchanted Forest to fulfill whatever her "spirit" duties were. The filmmakers wanted to seperate them to be praised for being brave regardless if it made narrative sense or not. Not to mention, that having them keep contact through letters diminished the emotional impact of the separation. In the end, there was no real sacrifice by anyone.

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:02 pm 
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Sotiris wrote:
I agree. It would have been better. It may not have solved all the film's issues (mainly being overstuffed and convoluted), but a bold, bittersweet ending would have earned it goodwill with audiences and critics. The ending we got was unearned. It didn't make sense separating the sisters when Elsa can travel from Ahtohallan to Arendelle in like the speed of light. She could have easily stayed in Arendelle and travel occasionally to the Enchanted Forest to fulfill whatever her "spirit" duties were. The filmmakers wanted to seperate them to be praised for being brave regardless if it made narrative sense or not. Not to mention, that having them keep contact through letters diminished the emotional impact of the separation. In the end, there was no real sacrifice by anyone.

I agree and it makes me wonder what kind of ending they might do in the third film, cause separating them again would be just a rehash of the second installment while bringing them back together would undermine it and I don't think they'll ever kill one of them off.


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:38 pm 
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My theory with the ending (and this is just a theory. I have never set foot in WDAS nor have I read any interview that addressed the matter) was that because Disney and Pixar had recently done movies where characters separated at the end, there might have been a concern they would be repeating themselves by playing out the exact same scenario with Anna and Elsa. And that's why it's so easy for Elsa to pay Anna a visit even after they decide to live in different kingdoms. But I could, of course, be wrong.

I actually had an epiphany a while back where I realised that the problems and issues I have with certain movies boils down to whether I agreed or disagreed with the creative decisions the filmmakers made. In any story, there will be audience members who wish the story had taken a different turn. After all, everyone has a preferred way of how they want a story to unfold or cliches they have grown tired of. There can be a villain you thought didn't have a good motivation or you didn't care for the musical style of a song (for example, some liked the '80s ballad approach to Kristoff's song, while others didn't) or you thought an entire character wasn't needed. These are all valid criticisms. But they all happened because one person or more on the production team thought these were good ideas.

When we see the finished cut of a movie, we all essentially become members of the story team with our own views of how the story could have gone or see ideas we completely approve of. The difference is we don't have any influence on what can be changed.

I also think there's a misconception that filmmakers don't like criticism. But I get the sense filmmakers are more self-critical than we realise. No movie enters production without the director or writer or producer changing their mind on something they initially approved of. If they weren't, Marty McFly would have gone back in time in a fridge rather than a time machine, Han Solo would have been a green-skinned alien with gills and Jessica Rabbit would have framed Roger instead of Judge Doom.

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:13 pm 
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I'm putting it under spoilers just in case...

In the second episode Lee and Buck tell the Lopezes that Show Yourself doesn't work and Kristen says something along the lines of "if you me to write you a boring song, I'll write you a boring song".


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:02 pm 
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estefan wrote:
My theory with the ending (and this is just a theory. I have never set foot in WDAS nor have I read any interview that addressed the matter) was that because Disney and Pixar had recently done movies where characters separated at the end, there might have been a concern they would be repeating themselves by playing out the exact same scenario with Anna and Elsa. And that's why it's so easy for Elsa to pay Anna a visit even after they decide to live in different kingdoms. But I could, of course, be wrong.

Not to mention in 2019 alone, Disney was "ending" four major franchises and all of them would have had bittersweet endings otherwise. Toy Story 4 has Woody separated from Buzz, Jessie, and the rest of the gang. Endgame had Iron Man dead and Captain America going back into the past. Rise of Skywalker had Ben Solo dead and Rey alone without her Dyad in the Force. So having Frozen 2 end with Elsa dead and Anna all alone would have been too much, especially when Frozen out of all these franchises is the most catered towards children.

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:59 pm 
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Sotiris wrote:


I'm in the middle of watching this: they originally were NOT going to use flashbacks- whoa. Ran out of production time or changed their minds?

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:35 am 
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farerb wrote:
To me it seems that either they might not realize that or that they think that people who loved Frozen II unconditionally will think that they did fix all the films problems and appreciate their hard work.

Oh. Hm, maybe that's it. These days I only really have time to devote to things I am super interested in. There's so many TV shows I wanna watch and I only am getting through two at a slow pace because one show I only watch with my friend and we can't do it all the time. This show is on Disney+ right? I don't even have that.

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:51 pm 
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Elsa is a coward at the end. She is supposed to be the queen not Anna.


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:57 pm 
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I get she could be viewed as selfish, but not really cowardly? :?

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:00 pm 
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I love that they brought back Kai from the frist one for a small role voiced agian in swedish by comdian Johan Wahlström :D :D :D :D

That's was a nice touch.

I am a bir bumbed Alan Tyduck din't voice a new major role but instead just a bunch bit parts :(

That's was disappointing , He should have had one bigger role instead !

I don't find Olaf annoying at all which is rewally credited to how well written and acted he is !

Anna and Elsa are still amazing overall this a better movie than Zootopia and even a bit superior to Ralph Breaks the Internet :) :)

But i stll really like Ralph Breaks the Internet :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:45 pm 
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I was reading that post you quoted of mine at the top of the page again, Sotiris, and it got me thinking... One, I would've loved if the film had ended with Elsa's death to save everyone, as I said. Two--and I have a feeling someone might've talked about this idea before, maybe in a slightly different way, I'm not sure--I would've loved... Well, since they said they planned to kind of leave clues and hints that Elsa may still be alive as a lead-in to Frozen 3. I would've liked if Elsa came back as the Snow Queen, her heart having frozen over and become an embodiment of... I don't know, cold malice or maybe revenge on Arendelle for the grandfather's backstabbing (since those were the last memories she was looking at before freezing, it might be the only motivation a Snow Queen form of her would have when she's lost her humanity) in Frozen 3? The "beware the Frozen Heart" lines from the first film with new meaning--or, rather, the real fulfillment of those lines? She freezes over Arendelle and the people there outright, and Anna would have to bring her back to herself somehow (using the help of the other spirits and perhaps love, too, naturally. :P ).

I can just imagine teasers for Frozen 3 with Elsa looking creepy, almost like Kida does when she's become one with the Heart of Atlantis, after they pan through the silent, frozen streets and castle to her sitting on the Arendelle throne. Maybe with a dark / creepy version of "Let It Go" (in a Snow Queen context: let go of worldly connections, let go of memories, enable the world to let go of life since the cold doesn't bother her anyway lol, etc.) or "Frozen Heart" playing in the background? And Frozen 3 could finally address in its story the fact that "Let It Go" (despite being the iconic song of the franchise) is actually the antithesis of the first film's real message and what Elsa learns--that the doors between people shouldn't be slammed closed, that love is an open door?

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:43 am 
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Oh lord.

Even Frozen 2's Creators Didn't Understand The Voice Calling To Elsa
The new Frozen II docuseries reveals that the mysterious "voice" was merely an afterthought during most of production. Here's what you need to know.
https://screenrant.com/frozen-2-elsa-vo ... confusing/

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:56 am 
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Yep! They first wanted the voice to be the person Elsa would become, but that was too confusing so they changed it to Iduna. That was confusing as well, so the Lopezes gave an idea to connect the song to the lullaby, it still wasn't enough so they decided to show the mother as a young child doing the call, and Jennifer Lee still didn't think it was enough so she decided that Elsa would say "Mother!".


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:03 am 
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Lol people were right when they said that they really only ever make the Frozen films based on one scene and everything else in those films has to be built upon that one scene. Not very good storytelling imo.

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:33 am 
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I think the most severe issue with the script is that they didn't really think about Want vs Need for each character, so every "change" the characters went through feels really empty.
I think a better storyline for Kristoff would have been if he had remained behind to take care of Arendelle's people and develop good leadership skills.
I don't know what they could have done with Anna, but I'm sure they could have found something better than to follow and scream "Elsa" all the time.
It seems to me like all Lee's focus went to Elsa, but even that wasn't clear as to what she has become, what is the meaning of the fifth spirit? Was it just an excuse to put her in a new dress?
I guess that's why I'm so against sequels, at least for films that really felt complete like the original Frozen did - the sisters found each other, they're happy, the end. Sequels work better for films like Zootopia, where they can work on a new mystery or Inside Out, where they can go through Riley's high school experience or college or whatever.


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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:54 am 
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Honestly Kristoff is such a useless character that I can't think of any plotline for him at all. Yours would work I guess to establish that he is capable of ruling so Anna can feel comfortable marrying him and making him her consort. Anna and Kristoff were both so obsessive in the final film, it was cringeworthy and unnerving. The ironic thing being they weren't even obsessed with each other, Kristoff seemed like he had an unrequited love for Anna and Anna seemed like a deranged Elsa fangirl/stalker.

And while I like that Elsa got the most focus, I agree that her storyline was so confusing and muddled, especially the ending which no one here seems to be able to decipher what happened to her when she was frozen or why she was frozen. I think it all was just planned to give her a new dress and look that would sell like her ice gown from the first film, that Let it Go transformation scene.

Best storyline would have been to bring back Hans, have Elsa identify with him even as Anna despises him and thinks he's no good, and gradually Elsa would fall in love with him as she sees that they aren't that dissimilar but Hans never had an Anna in his life like Elsa did to keep her grounded and tethered to family and love. Essentially a new Beauty and the Beast, enemies become lovers trope.

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:27 am 
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DisneyFan97 wrote:
I love that they brought back Kai from the frist one for a small role voiced agian in swedish by comdian Johan Wahlström

Did they name Ryder "Kai" in Sweden, or are you talking about someone else? Okay, Disney Wiki says Kai is the "steward of Arendelle Castle." I never knew that this character even had a name, let alone that it was a name from the original fairy tale.

Disney's Divinity wrote:
I would've liked if Elsa came back as the Snow Queen, her heart having frozen over and become an embodiment of... I don't know, cold malice or maybe revenge on Arendelle for the grandfather's backstabbing ...

(I didn't want to quote both paragraphs you wrote so I don't take up more space, but I'm referring to both paragraphs you posted!) Can you just go and work for Disney already? You've had some amazing ideas that you've been posting in different threads, even just in the past few days. I'm not sad that Elsa didn't die, but dang that's a great idea. All of it.

JeanGreyForever wrote:
especially the ending which no one here seems to be able to decipher what happened to her when she was frozen or why she was frozen.

I thought it was because "Dive down deep into her sound, But not too far, or you'll be drowned," but because of her ice powers she froze instead... :?:

This is such a super busy weekend for me but I need to watch the Disney+ series; I keep forgetting about it...

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:41 pm 
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blackcauldron85 wrote:
(I didn't want to quote both paragraphs you wrote so I don't take up more space, but I'm referring to both paragraphs you posted!) Can you just go and work for Disney already? You've had some amazing ideas that you've been posting in different threads, even just in the past few days. I'm not sad that Elsa didn't die, but dang that's a great idea. All of it.
Thanks! I was really fond of the idea when it came to me, since I think in images a lot of times. Just now I was thinking that, if Elsa froze over the kingdom immediately, how could Anna save her? My story explanation would be that either the other spirits came to her for help and revived her or perhaps she developed an immunity to Elsa's powers because of her experience turning to ice in the first film (since she already broke the curse with an act of True Love and can't be re-cursed).

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:35 pm 
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blackcauldron85 wrote:
DisneyFan97 wrote:
I love that they brought back Kai from the frist one for a small role voiced agian in swedish by comdian Johan Wahlström

Did they name Ryder "Kai" in Sweden, or are you talking about someone else? Okay, Disney Wiki says Kai is the "steward of Arendelle Castle." I never knew that this character even had a name, let alone that it was a name from the original fairy tale.

JeanGreyForever wrote:
especially the ending which no one here seems to be able to decipher what happened to her when she was frozen or why she was frozen.

I thought it was because "Dive down deep into her sound, But not too far, or you'll be drowned," but because of her ice powers she froze instead... :?:

The first film had two background characters called Gerda and Kai.

That could be although to be honest, I still don't understand it.

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 Post subject: Re: Frozen 2
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:16 am 
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Has anyone watched the VR short Myth: A Frozen Tale? Apparently, there's a "dark Nokk" in there. Is it a separate Nokk? If so, what happened to it? Is it the same Nokk, but before it became "light"? How does this fit with the mythology established in Frozen 2?

Brittney Lee wrote:
Huge congrats today for the wonderful team who worked on Myth: A Frozen Tale as it was just nominated by AIXR for VR Film of the Year! To celebrate, here is one of the most fun/dramatic pieces of artwork I got to work on for the show — the dark Nokk!
Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/CCcRwihnNks/

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Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/CCcRwihnNks/

Close-up.

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Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/CCcRwihnNks/

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