Touchstone/Hollywood Pictures to be considered Disney movies

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MarcChris
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Touchstone/Hollywood Pictures to be considered Disney movies

Post by MarcChris »

What's your opinion about this?

Are Touchstone/Hollywood Pictures movies "real" Disney movies only without Disney brand and more mature topics?
In Dave Smith's Disney from A to Z all three groups are together in a complete features list:
Walt Disney Pictures / Touchstone / Hollywood Pictures

Why are the Miramax movies missing in this list? Are these less "real" Disney movies?
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Post by disneyfella »

Dave's book does NOT include titles that were acquired by Disney (such as Running Brave, Take Down, and all of the Miramax titles which were acquired when Disney bought ABC/Capital Records) in the list you're referring to.

I believe that Touchstone and Hollywood Pictures are Disney films. A "facade" company was invented in order to allow Disney to maintain its niche in family friendly films, while also appealing to a more mature audience with films like "Splash", "Country", "Baby..Secret of the Lost Legend", etc.

The documentary on the "Splash: 20th Anniversary" dvd is pretty light, but they do address this topic. I think it is about time that a substantial 90 minute documentary were made chronicling the transition of the company from Ron Miller's regime to the Frank Wells regime. There is so much about that era that is forgotten or neglected. It was an important time for the company....maybe the most important time.

Who knows, maybe it will be part of the amazing 3 disc collector's edition of "The Black Cauldron". j/k
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Post by PrincePhillipFan »

I'd say that Touchstone and Hollywood Pictures are a part of Disney as well in the corporate sense. Even though they're different titles, they're still branches of the part of the company. However, in terms of name and Disney being identified with "family entertainment" I'd call them completely different.

Except when it comes to popularity, apparently. It seems like if an animated film that was released under the Touchstone banner proves to be wildly popular, they usually cash in on it and release the merchandise all around the Disney parks and under the Disney title, like Nightmare Before Christmas and Who Framed Roger Rabbit. :p
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Post by Touchstone84 »

It’s all about branding and marketing, which in this case makes all the difference for the average consumer when it comes to family entertainment.

According to David Vogel in http://www.expressindia.com/fe/daily/19 ... 5694p.html wrote:... the names Walt Disney Pictures, Touchstone Pictures and Hollywood Pictures will continue to exist but only as "stickers'' applied to films to differentiate their content.


One can notice in the Library of Congress Copyright database that ”Touchstone Pictures” and ”Hollywood Pictures Company” are merely AADO (accepted alternative name of) of Disney Enterprises, Inc. (prior to 1996 The Walt Disney Company, this is a technicality due to the merger with ABC), and not separate corporate entities. Both ”Touchstone Pictures” and “Hollywood Pictures” are also registered as fictitious business names in Los Angeles County and are also registered trademarks under federal law.

The Feature film list in Dave Smith's "Disney A to Z" also omitts several joint-ventures with other studios where Disney only had overseas distribution rights such as: "Popeye", "Dragonslayer", "Face/Off", "Starship Troopers", "Snake Eyes", "Runaway Bride" and "Bringing Out the Dead".
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Post by MarcChris »

Thanks to all of you for all the information up to now.

The list in Dave Smith's "Disney A to Z" also omitts the Miramax movies, but on the Disney website Miramax is shown as part of the company.
Aren't the movies not listed because they were acquired?

On the other hand Disney mentions over 1200 movies were produced, so they must count the Miramax movies, too, as "real" Disney-movies? What do you think?

Or is the Disney/Touchstone/Hollywood-list is the "complete" Disney movie list?
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Post by Touchstone84 »

Miramax Film Corporation is a subsidiary of the Walt Disney Compnay, no doubt about that.

The reason I think why Touchstone/Hollywood films but not Miramax/Dimension are in included in Dave Smith's list in "Disney from A to Z" is because the former have grown organic from within the Company, while the latter is an acquisition. One has also to remember that Miramax under the Weinstein brothers regime was run quite separate from the rest of the Walt Disney Company - they were given an annual budget and got to do pretty much what they wanted to do within those limits (their "financial constrictions" led to many elaborate co-production deals with outside entities) .

A complete feture film list would apart from WDP/Touchstone/Hollywood also include; Miramax, Dimension (pre September 2005), ABC Films with the Selznick catalogue, "Take Down" and the various joint-ventures I mentioned in my previous post.

One tricky question is wheater one should include films that have been financed and distributed through Disney's international distribution network (i.e. Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures International aka Buena Vista International), but not given a US release.
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Post by disneyfella »

That's an interesting thought, because a LOT of the Wonderful World of Disney made-for-TV features got theatrical distribution overseas. So do those titles count as theatrical films if they were never released to theatres here in the States?

Also, I thought it was interesting that Dave Smith included "Tiger Town" on the theatrical features list. Wasn't it only shown in like one or two theatres for one or two showings? It didn't get traditional theatrical distribution.......

I suppose there is no definitive answers to these types of questions, but they are interesting to think about ;)
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Post by Touchstone84 »

disneyfella wrote:That's an interesting thought, because a LOT of the Wonderful World of Disney made-for-TV features got theatrical distribution overseas. So do those titles count as theatrical films if they were never released to theatres here in the States?

Also, I thought it was interesting that Dave Smith included "Tiger Town" on the theatrical features list. Wasn't it only shown in like one or two theatres for one or two showings? It didn't get traditional theatrical distribution.......

I suppose there is no definitive answers to these types of questions, but they are interesting to think about ;)


"Tiger Town" according to “Disney A to Z” under its listing got distribution only in the Detroit area. The Touchstone film "Frank MacKlusky", also included on the list, only got theatrical distribution in a few Florida theaters! It’s certainly a matter of definition to include such limited releases! 8)

I wasn’t exactly aiming for the Wonderful World of Disney made-for-TV features (its an interesting topic itself), but rather theatrical films made in foreign countries financed and distributed by Disney.
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Post by disneyfella »

That's hilarious. When I was working at The Disney Studios, I took a fellow cast memeber and MADE them watch "Frank McClusky" with me, because I read that it might not get a theatrical release, and they were testing it at the Downtown Disney AMC theatre. She didn't like it, but I thought it was funnier than some other theatrical titles I had seen that year (*cough* The New Guy *cough*).

Unfortunately, we were literally the only people in the whole theatre :(


What films were you talking about with the foreign production, but Disney distrubtion.....do you mean like Roadside Romeo?
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Post by Touchstone84 »

Right, but most of them (I don’t know how many there is) have been live-action and not Disney branded (not Touchstone or Hollywood Pictures either).
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Post by blackcauldron85 »

I've been confused for a little while now. Touchstone Pictures still exists, right? When you see a Touchstone film, there's still the Touchstone logo and not the Disney castle logo, right? But all Disney films, Disney, Touchstone, and Hollywood (if they're still making films) are all under Buena Vista Home Entertainment, right, so Touchstone films aren't released by Touchstone on DVD and Blu-ray? I have been confused, I guess, because reading about a movie such as Confessions of a Shopaholic, they always mention Disney but not Touchstone. I know that Touchstone is a branch of Disney, but it confused me. I guess, even back in the day, articles would still mention Disney when mentioning a Touchstone film, right?
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Post by goofystitch »

Touchstone was created so that Disney could make films for adult audiences without having them branded as "Disney." So for years, films with objectionable content or a rating higher than PG would be a Touchstone film, even though the lines are often blurred for films like Who Framed Roger Rabbit?, Dick Tracy, and The Nightmare Before Chrisitmas (now officially under the Disney Pictures banner).

As a collector of Disney movies, I only collect them if they have "Walt Disney Pictures" before the film, although I do own a great deal of Touchstone DVDs.

It is also interesting to note that Disney switches banners sometimes for films. Roger Rabbit and Nightmare were both started as Disney films and were later seen as too objectionable for kids, so they were moved to Touchstone. Hidalgo was originally advertised as a Disney film and was also moved to Touchstone, whereas Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen started life as a Touchstone film and was moved to Disney.

Miramax, while owned by Disney, operated fairly independently for a long time until the Weinsteins left. So for me, I have a hard time considering Miramax films as Disney films.

The list in the Disney Encyclopedia is of every film produced by the studio, which would include all of its subsidiaries, such as Tuchstone and Miramax and Hollywood Pictures.
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Post by Flanger-Hanger »

I personally consider Who Framed Roger rabbit, Dick Tracy and The Nightmare Before Christmas to be Disney movies because of their distribution name switches, advertisements in Disney theme parks in addition to their more family friendly appeal unlike say, Ed Wood which I would have a hard associating the Disney name with.
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Post by Wonderlicious »

Flanger-Hanger wrote:I personally consider Who Framed Roger rabbit, Dick Tracy and The Nightmare Before Christmas to be Disney movies because of their distribution name switches, advertisements in Disney theme parks in addition to their more family friendly appeal unlike say, Ed Wood which I would have a hard associating the Disney name with.


That kinda sums up my opinion. If we're looking in context of any output made or distributed by the Walt Disney Company, anything such as Touchstone, Miramax etc can't truly be ignored, but if I was discussing Disney films as if they are almost as a kind of genre (no controversy intended - I just mean films which spiritually feel like a Disney film), then aside from things like Roger Rabbit and The Nightmare Before Christmas (which is now officially a Disney movie anyhow), I wouldn't count them.
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Post by Super Aurora »

Flanger-Hanger wrote:I personally consider Who Framed Roger rabbit, Dick Tracy and The Nightmare Before Christmas to be Disney movies because of their distribution name switches, advertisements in Disney theme parks in addition to their more family friendly appeal unlike say, Ed Wood which I would have a hard associating the Disney name with.


I can Roger Rabbit and Nightmare before christmas as disney films but how does Dick Tracy fit as disney film?

Also The Rocketeers was originally intended a Touchstone (which is should have so more content could of be in it. not that it was bad film begin with) but moved as a disney film just so they can market it which was bad choice and poor decision.
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Post by slave2moonlight »

Around the time of Dick Tracy, it was pretty openly understood that Touchstone was Disney. At least, it seemed that way. As I recall, Dick Tracy, Roger Rabbit, Nightmare Before Christmas, and maybe some others of the time were loosely referred to as Disney films just because it seemed general knowledge that Touchstone was from them. That's the way I rememeber it, anyway. And so, I have always considered those titles as Disney films. Ones that I found more confusing were films like Popeye, a fave film of mine, that is often called a Disney film and I know they were in on it, but what was it, a pairing with Paramount or something, wasn't it? Does it even say Disney anywhere on the DVD or anything? I do recall it saying something about Disney in the end credits though, if I remember correctly.

As for Hollywood, I can't for the life of me think of which popular films were released under the heading. Were the Ninja Turtles from Hollywood pictures? How about Arachnaphobia? If not, can anyone throw out some titles of blockbusters from Hollywood Pictures? I do remember first hearing about Hollywood pictures and that it was a new brand from Disney, and I remember thinking maybe it was going to replace Touchstone as their adult brand (Do films still get released under Touchstone? I haven't even kept track of that lately). Did one of them make "Gone Fishin'"? It was a flop I think, but I LOVED that movie and own the DVD. And, how about Wayne's World? Because I used to own a Wayne's World cap, and it said "Disney" in the tag! And can anyone tell me why Ace Ventura was doing a street show in Disney MGM Studios one summer when I visited it? Were those Hollywood or Touchstone films or something? It's an interesting subject. One thing I go buy is what I see at the Disney Store and in the parks, though I know some stuff, like Star Wars, is licensed. Always considered Roger Rabbit Disney though, and Dick Tracy and Nightmare Before Christmas as well.
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Post by blackcauldron85 »

I had even thought about just not posting my previous post after I typed it, lol, thinking it made no sense. Sorry for practically asking the same things below, but I'm really curious!

My main confusion is: aren't all the "Disney" movies (Disney, Touchstone, Hollywood) released through Walt Disney Home Entertainment now? Do the DVDs even mention Touchstone or Hollywood now? And when you see a new Touchstone film at the theater, such as Confessions of a Shopaholic, for example, is the Disney Castle logo shown, or is the Touchstone logo shown?

*edit* So, I'm reading tommy2.net, and it says: On June 23rd, Touchstone Home Entertainment releases Confessions of a Shopaholic on Blu-ray and DVD! So Touchstone Home Entertainment DOES exist, or did he mean Walt Disney Home Entertainment?
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Post by Flanger-Hanger »

Super Aurora wrote:
Flanger-Hanger wrote:I personally consider Who Framed Roger rabbit, Dick Tracy and The Nightmare Before Christmas to be Disney movies because of their distribution name switches, advertisements in Disney theme parks in addition to their more family friendly appeal unlike say, Ed Wood which I would have a hard associating the Disney name with.


I can Roger Rabbit and Nightmare before christmas as disney films but how does Dick Tracy fit as disney film?

Also The Rocketeers was originally intended a Touchstone (which is should have so more content could of be in it. not that it was bad film begin with) but moved as a disney film just so they can market it which was bad choice and poor decision.


Tracy had a musical stage show at both Disney-MGM Studios and Disneyland around the time of the film's opening (it ran from June-Dec 1990 at Disneyland and May 1990-Feb 1991 at MGM) plus a shop called Dick Tracy at Pleasure Island and the Roger Rabbit cartoon Roller Coaster Rabbit was released with the movie.

There was a ride planed for Disney-MGM Studios called Dick Tracy's Crimestoppers which got pretty far into design phase but was canceled.
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Post by slave2moonlight »

Yeah, we have that Dick Tracy stage show on tape, though people's heads made it not such a good recording. Also taped the old backstage tour, and at one point they had a sequence called "Dick Tracy's Crimestoppers" in which the tour tram stops to witness a bank robbery and a beat cop who catches the guy (no Dick Tracy in it, but I guess it was about his Crimestoppers and not him). Interesting that there was going to be a ride of the same name. Could have been cool!
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Post by PeterPanfan »

blackcauldron85 wrote:I had even thought about just not posting my previous post after I typed it, lol, thinking it made no sense. Sorry for practically asking the same things below, but I'm really curious!

My main confusion is: aren't all the "Disney" movies (Disney, Touchstone, Hollywood) released through Walt Disney Home Entertainment now? Do the DVDs even mention Touchstone or Hollywood now? And when you see a new Touchstone film at the theater, such as Confessions of a Shopaholic, for example, is the Disney Castle logo shown, or is the Touchstone logo shown?

*edit* So, I'm reading tommy2.net, and it says: On June 23rd, Touchstone Home Entertainment releases Confessions of a Shopaholic on Blu-ray and DVD! So Touchstone Home Entertainment DOES exist, or did he mean Walt Disney Home Entertainment?


Okay, so here's the history of Touchstone Pictures:

It was founded in 1984 because Disney wanted to release their more mature movies under a different banner, so the squeaky-clean Disney image wouldn't be destroyed.

In 1979, Disney released The Black Hole, which was its first PG-rated film. Since nobody really criticized it, they began releasing more PG movies, until Trenchcoat released in 1983, which was panned for being too "adult."

That said, Confessions of a Shopaholic WAS released under Touchstone Pictures, and there are still being more movies released under the branch of the Disney company, though Disney wants to focus more upon Walt Disney Pictures instead of Touchstone, without completely abandoning it.
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