Tangled (& Tangled Ever After) Discussion: Part VII

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Sotiris
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Re: Tangled (& Tangled Ever After) Discussion: Part VII

Post by Sotiris »

In a new interview, Byron Howard revealed that Glen Keane originally wanted Musker & Clements to direct Tangled.
Byron Howard: Glen had that project in the works for years before. It was a favorite of his. He said to us that he actually asked Ron and John to direct it years ago but they were on something else and they couldn't do it.

Q: Princess and the Frog?

Byron Howard: Maybe. It was even before that. 'Cause he had that in development for probably 6 or 7 years at least.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcQTiW7dEUU
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Re: Tangled (& Tangled Ever After) Discussion: Part VII

Post by DisneyFan09 »

Well, since the duo had already directed fairy tale swithout snark and pop culture references, I guess they've could've pulled it off. Perhaps they've could've given Tangled more spunk and life . However, the Rapunzel premise seemed perhaps too classical for Musker and Clements.

It's a pity that Glen Keane had a heart attack and stepped off. I remember discussing with a bright friend of mine about how Tangled could've been if Keane was the director all along. He thought the film could've been an improvement and that Glen would've given the songwriters more freedom.
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Re: Tangled (& Tangled Ever After) Discussion: Part VII

Post by Disney's Divinity »

^ I agree, DisneyFan09. If M&C had been directors here, the soundtrack would've been improved (and no Mandy Moore), if nothing else. And maybe Gothel would be a good villain.

Overall though, I'm not really bothered about it. If they had to do a 3D film, I'd pick Moana (with its ocean, gods, mythology) over an adaptation of the "Rapunzel" tale, so it ended up for the best, imo. As much as Tangled copied Ariel for Rapunzel anyway.... I wonder if the stupid title could've been avoided with M&C, but I'm guessing they would've been overruled considering they aren't allowed to make anything hand-drawn either. And I guess TP&TF was also given a stupid title after they originally planned it as "The Frog Princess." (which sounds so much better...)
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Re: Tangled (& Tangled Ever After) Discussion: Part VII

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Disney's Divinity wrote:^ I agree, DisneyFan09. If M&C had been directors here, the soundtrack would've been improved (and no Mandy Moore), if nothing else.
Really? I'm glad you agree! But why being against Mandy Moore?
And maybe Gothel would be a good villain.
Agreed. She gained some praise, but I felt she was quite lackluster and bland.
As much as Tangled copied Ariel for Rapunzel anyway....
I know a lot of Disney fans claim that, but I never saw Rapunzel as an exact identity of Ariel. I can see some traits, but not as much as people claim. Personally I found Ariel to be more aggressive and energetic. She pursues her dream much more, while Rapunzel is more dubious and vulnerable. Rapunzel has her moments of energy, but I feel she's overall more subdued than Ariel. Perhaps if we took consideration in Ariel in the tv show, I've could've agreed more, but in her feature film? Not that much.
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Re: Tangled (& Tangled Ever After) Discussion: Part VII

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DisneyFan09 wrote: I know a lot of Disney fans claim that, but I never saw Rapunzel as an exact identity of Ariel. I can see some traits, but not as much as people claim. Personally I found Ariel to be more aggressive and energetic. She pursues her dream much more, while Rapunzel is more dubious and vulnerable. Rapunzel has her moments of energy, but I feel she's overall more subdued than Ariel. Perhaps if we took consideration in Ariel in the tv show, I've could've agreed more, but in her feature film? Not that much.
Oh, I agree. I think their personalities are fairly different (although the whole "yearning for what they don't have on the other side of the fence" is something Rapunzel took from Ariel, like a crapton of other animated protagonists at Disney and other companies since TLM), but their designs are almost identical if you add just miniscule differences with the teeth/eyes and hair color.
DisneyFan09 wrote:[Really? I'm glad you agree! But why being against Mandy Moore?
I don't think the same people who picked Jodi Benson, Lea Salonga, Susan Egan, and Anika Noni Rose would pick Mandy Moore. Any one of those 4 would blow her off the stage (I'll also throw in the Muses and Pat Carroll as their other singing female characters).
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Re: Tangled (& Tangled Ever After) Discussion: Part VII

Post by DisneyFan09 »

Disney's Divinity wrote: Oh, I agree. I think their personalities are fairly different (although the whole "yearning for what they don't have on the other side of the fence" is something Rapunzel took from Ariel, like a crapton of other animated protagonists at Disney and other companies since TLM), but their designs are almost identical if you add just miniscule differences with the teeth/eyes and hair color.
Perhaps, but I personally consider their similarities to be more obvious in Rapunzels' 2D design.
Idon't think the same people who picked Jodi Benson, Lea Salonga, Susan Egan, and Anika Noni Rose would pick Mandy Moore. Any one of those 4 would blow her off the stage (I'll also throw in the Muses and Pat Carroll as their other singing female characters).
Perhaps, but I don't see anything wrong with Mandy Moore voicing a Disney Princess. I thought Mandy nailed the part and had a sweet, perky voice. She failed to hit certain singing notes, but that's was her only flaw.
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Re: Tangled (& Tangled Ever After) Discussion: Part VII

Post by disneyprincess11 »

Agreed! Mandy Moore was perfect for Rapunzel with a youthful teenage voice, but yet has the sweetness and innocence of a Disney heroine.
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Re: Tangled (& Tangled Ever After) Discussion: Part VII

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I thought she was good speaking, awful singing. Disney princesses (and I’ll just extend that to every other singing character) should be strong in both areas if the film’s a musical. The live-action remake can have actors who are autotuned to within an inch of their lives, but I’d like the animated films to be strong in that area, sorry. Her weaknesses are made even more apparent when all the princesses’ songs are packaged together; her whiny, pitiful vocals stand apart from the pack.
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Re: Tangled (& Tangled Ever After) Discussion: Part VII

Post by Sotiris »

There were a few that I didn't know about.

10 Hidden Disney Movie Secrets About Tangled
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg7hRbMBPyk
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Re: Tangled (& Tangled Ever After) Discussion: Part VII

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So, this is the reason "I See the Light" was underwhelming. The directors didn't let them do a big, soaring love ballad.
Alan Menken: Our job in a way is to be invisible and support the vision. But those limits are good. The hardest assignment is one with no guidelines: “Write whatever you want.” In Tangled, we did 20 versions of “I See the Light” — just pick one!

Glenn Slater: We wrote the big belty ballad duet, and they said, “We want it quieter.” Alan said, “What about this?” “That’s too folky; that’s too quiet.” It went on for hours. Any of those versions could’ve been a hit song.
Source: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/a ... q-a-951771
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Re: Tangled (& Tangled Ever After) Discussion: Part VII

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So curious for Tangled demo's. There should be some gems hidden in there...
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Re: Tangled (& Tangled Ever After) Discussion: Part VII

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Sotiris wrote:So, this is the reason "I See the Light" was underwhelming. The directors didn't let them do a big, soaring love ballad.
Alan Menken: Our job in a way is to be invisible and support the vision. But those limits are good. The hardest assignment is one with no guidelines: “Write whatever you want.” In Tangled, we did 20 versions of “I See the Light” — just pick one!

Glenn Slater: We wrote the big belty ballad duet, and they said, “We want it quieter.” Alan said, “What about this?” “That’s too folky; that’s too quiet.” It went on for hours. Any of those versions could’ve been a hit song.
Source: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/a ... q-a-951771
Well, it was stated back in 2014 that Menken and Slater had written a big, soaring love ballad which the directors rejected because it was too Broadway.

Either way, I See The Light was the best song from the movie, in my opinion. At least it had a catchy melody and some heart and effort put into it. Healing Incantation was inspired, but never allowed to be fully enhanced. The other songs were just meh.
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Re: Tangled (& Tangled Ever After) Discussion: Part VII

Post by Musical Master »

When you compare the soundtracks of Tangled, Frozen, and Moana the differences between the three of them are rather shocking. The whole thing about the directors not using Alan Menken's talents is very apparent that Byron and Nathan wanted Tangled to have no songs and wanted the movie to work for the story and comedy only. Can you say miscast directors much?
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Re: Tangled (& Tangled Ever After) Discussion: Part VII

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Sotiris wrote:So, this is the reason "I See the Light" was underwhelming. The directors didn't let them do a big, soaring love ballad.
Alan Menken: Our job in a way is to be invisible and support the vision. But those limits are good. The hardest assignment is one with no guidelines: “Write whatever you want.” In Tangled, we did 20 versions of “I See the Light” — just pick one!

Glenn Slater: We wrote the big belty ballad duet, and they said, “We want it quieter.” Alan said, “What about this?” “That’s too folky; that’s too quiet.” It went on for hours. Any of those versions could’ve been a hit song.
Source: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/a ... q-a-951771
This only gives more confirmation of what we already knew. I hate that this was Menken’s last soundtrack at WDAS, because people act like it was this bad because he’d lost his touch instead of the directors (and likely Lasseter, too, since he wanted to ex out anything that had any similarity to fairytale musicals at that point in time) being idiots/assholes and hampering him every step of the way. Neither of them should ever be involved with musicals again.

But in a way I can be slightly sympathetic to them, because they aren’t really different from Musker and Clements on Moana being forced to do things they don’t want to do. Director-driven studio, feh . :roll:
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Re: Tangled (& Tangled Ever After) Discussion: Part VII

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I got the urge to re-watch the film because of the TV series, and I’ll admit I don’t dislike the film quite as much as I used to, but it’s still not one of my favorites. I do think Flynn is more likable in the TV series so far.

I always did like Rapunzel, and I liked Gothel a little more than I remembered. I still wish there’d been a little more nuance to show she actually had grown to care for Rapunzel to a degree (even if in the end she never loved her enough to stop lying to her and keeping her stunted/trapped in the tower). I feel like the moment where Gothel fake-rescues her from the Stabbington Bros and Rapunzel looks out at the boat with Flynn on it again, that should've been a moment to show where Gothel had a degree felt guilty. And then again when they’re in the tower, when Gothel’s about to walk out of the room and turns back, I feel like she should’ve shown a smidgen of guilt (sort of like Triton after he destroys Ariel’s collection of human things), even if her selfishness kept her from doing the right thing. Even so, accepting the movie the way it is, she’s a decent villain.

Watching the deleted/alternate scenes, I do wish the pub scene in the finished film had been the same as the Jaunty Moose scene, except at the end when she’s walking to the door, have her say something about “I’ve come too far to let anyone stop me from my dream” then cue the beginning of the song in the film with the hook guy walking up and saying, “I had a dream.” I don’t know, I just like the way they introduced the pub there better, with Rapunzel stumbling upon it and Flynn mocking her, “WooOOooh, humans!” I preferred the early concept art for the old drunk guy better than the finished product, too. I didn’t mind that they cut the original opening for “WWMLB?” but I really wish they’d kept all of “Mother Knows Best” in the film.

Anyway, I can see why the film is popular. I can imagine watching this as a child and enjoying it. I really can’t believe this film is only 3 years from being a decade old…. It feels like this and The Princess and the Frog were released just yesterday to me. Time goes by so fast.
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Re: Tangled (& Tangled Ever After) Discussion: Part VII

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Disney's Divinity wrote:I got the urge to re-watch the film because of the TV series, and I’ll admit I don’t dislike the film quite as much as I used to, but it’s still not one of my favorites. I do think Flynn is more likable in the TV series so far.
You disliked it? Why?

I thought Tangled had it's moments, but as a whole was a fairly passable movie. Frankly, my biggest problem is that Alan Menken's never gets to truly make a great score that could be matched to his predecessors. Another problem is the film's unevenness. I've ranted about this before, but I feel that the comedy and drama never gels. Tangled rarely gets credit for that the harrowing moments are just that... too harrowing and dark. Frankly, Mother Knows Best and I've Got a Dream were lackluster and When Will My Life Begin could've rather Mandy Moore's newest single. At least storywise Tangled is more consistent than Hunchback, who shares the same premise, but becomes somewhat scattered (at least storywise) in the second and third act, where the story starts out as Quasimodo's story and afterwards becomes Frollo's lust for Esmeralda's story. Quasi practically becomes a secondary lead in his own story.
I always did like Rapunzel, and I liked Gothel a little more than I remembered. I still wish there’d been a little more nuance to show she actually had grown to care for Rapunzel to a degree (even if in the end she never loved her enough to stop lying to her and keeping her stunted/trapped in the tower). I feel like the moment where Gothel fake-rescues her from the Stabbington Bros and Rapunzel looks out at the boat with Flynn on it again, that should've been a moment to show where Gothel had a degree felt guilty. And then again when they’re in the tower, when Gothel’s about to walk out of the room and turns back, I feel like she should’ve shown a smidgen of guilt (sort of like Triton after he destroys Ariel’s collection of human things), even if her selfishness kept her from doing the right thing. Even so, accepting the movie the way it is, she’s a decent villain.
I've ranted about Gothel before, so I won't repeat myself. Other than I feel that she's more generic than (at least most people) give her credit for. She could've been a deeper and nuanced character, yet she never truly gets to shine in the way the best Disney villains does. Dr. Facilier was a far better villain than her (and yes, another repetition of mine, but I can't help it).
I really can’t believe this film is only 3 years from being a decade old…. It feels like this and The Princess and the Frog were released just yesterday to me. Time goes by so fast.
Oh man, I can't believe it either. It feels like yesterday, but man, time has passed by. The world was different back then (just a little bit, though, but still) and people were concerning if Disney were able to pull off fairy tale movies. Pixar still had their Perfection stamp, The Princess line was as it's top and the Disney Channel franchises were still quite prominent and overexposed (but starting slowly to decline). And wee, just remember the havoc around the title change, the trailers and the fact that it was well hidden that it was a musical. At least we could be relieved that Miley Cyrus' Girls Just Want To Have Fun was never used in the trailer (though it's still surprising that it wasn't). Due to her being the Disney queen at the time (and starting to break out of that stamp by being... sexual), it would've definitively made people scream foul if it was included.

Though I personally haven't noticed it until later viewings, it's clear that Disney themselves were more confident in trusting their storytelling skills with Frozen and letting the film shine on it's drama without having that much of modern touches snark, quick cutting and ect. At least Moana was made by a directing team who's steeped in comedy, so the comedic moments never feels out of place.
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Re: Tangled (& Tangled Ever After) Discussion: Part VII

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Tokyopop's division Disney Manga is releasing the Tangled manga for the first time in the U.S. on August 15, 2017.

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Re: Tangled (& Tangled Ever After) Discussion: Part VII

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I wonder why the cover for this manga is adorable while TP&TF just has some clipart slapped on a boring background.
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Re: Tangled (& Tangled Ever After) Discussion: Part VII

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Producer Roy Conli Explains Why He Doesn’t Want to See a Live-Action ‘Tangled’ Movie Anytime Soon
http://collider.com/tangled-live-action ... oy-conli/s
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