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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:55 pm 
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Yes, it's not the best Disney movie. But, every time it is mentioned anywhere on the web, people are like, "OMIGOSH. I hate the movie. The songs are forgettable and the story sucks." I can understand the songs, but like the stories, characters etc.? I thought those were fine. I didn't get lost in the story at all. The thing I don't get is why Naveen is in America. He doesn't say because he wants to marry a rich woman like everyone does.

My sister only thought it was ok because of the voodoo ruining it for her. But, otherwise, I don't get the hate for PATF.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:06 pm 
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I wonder that too as I felt it doesn't deserve the backlash it gets. I'm not even a big fan of Randy Newman and I thought his songs for the movie were decent. Almost There and Friend on the Other Side are songs I consider to be pretty good in fact.

I like the characters and I thought the story was good. Nothing about it made me feel lost. I found Tiana to be a likeable and relatable main character who has a good character arc. I found the relationship with her and Naveen to be sweet and well developed. I even liked Lottie more than I thought I would. I was so glad the writers didn't make her another villain just to give Tiana more conflict.

I know it feels tedious to bring up Tangled, but that is basically looked at as a modern day classic. So many people say that was the movie TPATF SHOULD HAVE been. Personally, I really like Tangled, but I have no idea what that movie did that TPATF didn't do the year before.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:17 pm 
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I didn't know that people actually hate the film. I actually rather like it; I find it to be a much better crafted film than the "beloved" Tangled.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:22 pm 
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It must be because that everyone thought it was going to be a new classic like The Little Mermaid and then when they saw it they were extremely dissapointed.

For me, it's an alright movie with some very good virtues, but it's really a big pile of meh that could've done more and Tangled to me is a much better movie because of it's simplicity.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:36 pm 
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Yeah, I don't get it, either. I think the story is strongly told (and I love the loopholes people seem to find "complicated"), I actually find the songs up there with the Shermans and Menken (but, then again, I'm a big Randy Newman fan, more than the average person), the animation is splendid, each and every character is essential and interesting and well-developed and the humour and drama both work well together. It's one of my favourite Disney animated films and I was somebody who is less-than-enthusiastic about Clements and Musker's previous two animated features, so I found this to be a return-to-form for them, doing what they do best.

I recall when it was released, the general reception here was a lot more positive and a lot of users really loved the film. Then, after Tangled, it seems popular to compare the two and look down at Frog as a lesser Disney picture. I wonder if after most of us have seen Frozen, that will do the new Disney fairy tale almost everybody loves and Tangled will be the one thrown to the wolves and seen as not that good.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:01 pm 
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estefan wrote:
I actually find the songs up there with the Shermans and Menken (but, then again, I'm a big Randy Newman fan, more than the average person)


I actually really love the songs as well. But the main problem has more to do with how they are framed within the story and how they don't function on the same level as the songs in Tangled or undoubtedly Frozen. Tangled's songs are okay-ish, but they are much better support for the story than the songs in TPatF.

Randy Newman is not a storyteller. He doesn't have the same understanding of story structure as Alan Menken or Bobby Lopez.

In the end, I just have a huge love/hate relationship with the songs.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:03 pm 
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TP&tF is one of my absolute favorite movies ever. At first when Randy Newman was announced to be doing the songs, of course I complained that Alan Menken wasn't doing the songs, but I think that the songs absolutely fit well in the movie, and they're mighty catchy (I mean, something like "Going Down the Bayou" isn't furthering the plot much at all, so it at least better be catchy!). I love, love, love the characters. Tiana is a strong character with an amazing work ethic who has always been working toward a goal, who never would have suspected that she'd have a place for love (outside of her family). Naveen is so funny but really is sweet despite his seemingly playboy demeanor. Ray and Louis are both sweet, genuine, funny characters (I think that especially Ray's brand of humor isn't for everyone, and I know that some people have issues with his design, but he's such a wonderful character in my eyes). And Dr. Facilier is a good villain. I don't know exactly where he stands in terms of my favorite villains, but he's a good villain. I refrain from saying "great" because he is mysterious; we don't know much about him at all. I love the theme of family and tradition and hard work- I adore Tiana and I think that she's a good role model- I definitely think of her in terms of that. And I love the look of the film.

However one compares the "Renaissance" films...I'm not really sure. I mean, everyone has their favorites. I had extremely high expectations going into seeing TP&tF, and I came out with all my expectations met and then some. I know that a lot of people had extremely high expectations going in, and besides the music, which, come on, not everyone is a Newman fan, Ray/Louis (a lot of people don't like some Disney sidekicks), and the lack of backstory for Dr. Facilier, I personally don't see how people's expectations weren't met!

I think that some people always have had a sour taste in their mouth because of all the PC-ness going on during production ("Maddie" to "Tiana", chambermaid to waitress, etc., etc.)...and carried that into their enjoyment of the film...?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:34 pm 
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PatrickvD wrote:
estefan wrote:
I actually find the songs up there with the Shermans and Menken (but, then again, I'm a big Randy Newman fan, more than the average person)


I actually really love the songs as well. But the main problem has more to do with how they are framed within the story and how they don't function on the same level as the songs in Tangled or undoubtedly Frozen. Tangled's songs are okay-ish, but they are much better support for the story than the songs in TPatF.

Randy Newman is not a storyteller. He doesn't have the same understanding of story structure as Alan Menken or Bobby Lopez.

In the end, I just have a huge love/hate relationship with the songs.


I agree, even if Tangled's songs are only on the okay level, they still support the story and they are still better constructed songs than Randy's work on TPATF (I love Almost There and Dig a Little Deeper).

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:43 pm 
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I definitely think TP&TF is an imperfect movie (occasionally great, occasionally awful, mostly decent), but I personally love it. Usually, with a film, I can overlook the bad when the good is so good. And I find, with this film (and Treasure Planet, too, for another M&C film), I love most of the characters so much that I can easily overlook some of the plot clumsiness in the swamp sections of the story. Charlotte, Tiana, Naveen, Ray, and Facilier are some strong, vibrant characters, and I love their interactions as well (particularly Charlotte-Tiana's).

Although I'm no fan of Newman and I do think this is a poor soundtrack in comparison to most Disney soundtracks, I don't find all of it awful. I always found "Down in New Orleans" to be a great song, but the others are mostly lifted by the vocals (Anika Noni Rose, Keith David). The only outright unsalvageable songs are the ones sung by Ray, unfortunately. I believe they were attempting to go in the same vein as TLM, by having the sidekick sing around the protagonists like Sebastian, but "Ma Belle Evangeline" doesn't work AT ALL, in any way. The other one is irredeemably awful, whatever it's called again ("Gonna Take You There"?). I also really love Ne-Yo's "Never Knew I Needed" tacked on the end, although I don't believe that was written by Newman (thankfully). *

And again, personally, I find Tangled extremely overrated. There are things I like about that film (just Rapunzel, actually), but the music is blah (which I blame mostly on the directors restraining Menken to the soundtrack's detriment), the villain is unsatisfying (more egregious considering Disney's villainess legacy, although they had a dud before in Medusa), and the plot and romance are ripped straight from TP&TF with touches of the '90s Disney and Pixar's usual roadtrip storyline (also found in TP&TF, which is that movie's biggest flaw...). Personally, I think the one thing the film has over TP&TF is it isn't muddled in the middle like TP&TF is with the swamp scenes and Rapunzel is a more well-known tale.

Overall, I still feel TP&TF may hold more credit than people think for Tangled's success, considering it was so popular in DVD/Blu sales. To me, it did function similar to TLM--though easily not on the same level--in letting people know "Disney is back!"

*Tbh, talking about it, I wish Menken and Newman had been switched between projects. M&C wouldn't have held Menken back and Newman could go ruin a film I ultimately didn't like in peace. :lol: As far as I know, wasn't Menken on TP&TF before he was forced off by Lasseter (just like with Frozen)?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:04 pm 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
I definitely think TP&TF is an imperfect movie (occasionally great, occasionally awful, mostly decent), but I personally love it. Usually, with a film, I can overlook the bad when the good is so good. And I find, with this film (and Treasure Planet, too, for another M&C film), I love most of the characters so much that I can easily overlook some of the plot clumsiness in the swamp sections of the story. Charlotte, Tiana, Naveen, Ray, and Facilier are some strong, vibrant characters, and I love their interactions as well (particularly Charlotte-Tiana's).

Although I'm no fan of Newman and I do think this is a poor soundtrack in comparison to most Disney soundtracks, I don't find all of it awful. I always found "Down in New Orleans" to be a great song, but the others are mostly lifted by the vocals (Anika Noni Rose, Keith David). The only outright unsalvageable songs are the ones sung by Ray, unfortunately. I believe they were attempting to go in the same vein as TLM, by having the sidekick sing around the protagonists like Sebastian, but "Ma Belle Evangeline" doesn't work AT ALL, in any way. The other one is irredeemably awful, whatever it's called again ("Gonna Take You There"?). I also really love Ne-Yo's "Never Knew I Needed" tacked on the end, although I don't believe that was written by Newman (thankfully). *

And again, personally, I find Tangled extremely overrated. There are things I like about that film (just Rapunzel, actually), but the music is blah (which I blame mostly on the directors restraining Menken to the soundtrack's detriment), the villain is unsatisfying (more egregious considering Disney's villainess legacy, although they had a dud before in Medusa), and the plot and romance are ripped straight from TP&TF with touches of the '90s Disney and Pixar's usual roadtrip storyline (also found in TP&TF, which is that movie's biggest flaw...). Personally, I think the one thing the film has over TP&TF is it isn't muddled in the middle like TP&TF is with the swamp scenes and Rapunzel is a more well-known tale.

Overall, I still feel TP&TF may hold more credit than people think for Tangled's success, considering it was so popular in DVD/Blu sales. To me, it did function similar to TLM--though easily not on the same level--in letting people know "Disney is back!"

*Tbh, talking about it, I wish Menken and Newman had been switched between projects. M&C wouldn't have held Menken back and Newman could go ruin a film I ultimately didn't like in peace. :lol: As far as I know, wasn't Menken on TP&TF before he was forced off by Lasseter (just like with Frozen)?


Really good observation Disney's Divinity, but I guess you and I are on the opposite sides when it comes to these two films (you love TPATF and hate Tangled). However TPATF still is on my like list for some of it's really GOOD virtues and I still watch it from time to time. I do agree however, that Tangled's songs and villianess really, REALLY could've been better.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:02 pm 
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OMG! Please let's not discuss this! It's depressing. :cry:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:07 pm 
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TsWade2 wrote:
OMG! Please let's not discuss this! It's depressing. :cry:


Care to tell why?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:31 pm 
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Musical Master wrote:
TsWade2 wrote:
OMG! Please let's not discuss this! It's depressing. :cry:


Care to tell why?

Because I'm scared that maybe the reason why they hate that wonderful movie is because it's 2D hand drawn animated?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:34 pm 
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disneyprincess11 wrote:
The thing I don't get is why Naveen is in America. He doesn't say because he wants to marry a rich woman like everyone does.


He was supposedly cut off from his parents and, like most foreigners, went to try his luck with the "American Dream".

At least that's what I remember.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:41 pm 
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Semaj wrote:
disneyprincess11 wrote:
The thing I don't get is why Naveen is in America. He doesn't say because he wants to marry a rich woman like everyone does.


He was supposedly cut off from his parents and, like most foreigners, went to try his luck with the "American Dream".

At least that's what I remember.


Yeah. Remember? Lawrence told Naveen that he should either woo and marry a rich girl or get a job. And his parents cut him off for leeching off of them, so they most likely told him to get off his lazy butt and get his own damn money.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:47 pm 
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I think the weakest part of PATF was definitely the songs. They were okay, but none of them were very memorable. I felt that way the first time I heard the soundtrack.

Visually, it was done well with lots of style. However, the storyline was weak and there was no overriding passion from the characters. They were changed into frogs and were trying to change back to humans. There is no overwhelming desire to become human, or escape a small provincial town.

Yes, there was the dream of owning her own restaurant, but it was not tied into the storyline very well. It seemed to be added in after-the-fact. Overall and okay movie, but not overly impressive. I would be hard-pressed to find someone who would say it was their favourite Disney movie.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:49 pm 
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TsWade2 wrote:
Musical Master wrote:
TsWade2 wrote:
OMG! Please let's not discuss this! It's depressing. :cry:


Care to tell why?

Because I'm scared that maybe the reason why they hate that wonderful movie is because it's 2D hand drawn animated?


TsWade2, I don't think people hate the movie because of the art form it used, but they hate it or was dissapointed by it because the story, characters and songs were not up the level of the Disney Renaissance films.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:52 pm 
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Why weren't the story and characters up to the Renassiance?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:08 am 
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disneyprincess11 wrote:
Why weren't the story and characters up to the Renassiance?


To them, the reason why is because Disney tried way to hard to be like those previous Disney movies and created a "cookie cutter" Disney film. There are some opinions out there that Tiana is Belle all over again, the sidekicks are awful, and the story was done poorly.

This isn't my opinion of the story and characters anyway. To me though, some of the characters even surpass the Renassiance like Ray and Charlotte for their interesting functions as characters. The story is nice but it can suffer from pacing issues and that the swamp setting kind of ruins the intention of being a love letter to New Orleans.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:15 am 
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Some theories here

1 ) Sad but true, some people are still pretty racist out there and wouldn't want to see a pro- POC movie.

2 ) It's 2D which isn't in fashion lately, most kiddies these days have grown up with Dreamworks like 3D movies. And the Dreamworks like trailers would of attracted more bums in seats for Tangled, plus it was 3D, so again, more audience.

3 ) It was quite dark for today's Soccer Mum society. The shadow demons and the way the Villian died was quite harsh for today's standards.

4 ) The music was rather average and disappointed alot of Disney fans.


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