Bambi v. Dumbo

[PixarFan2006]

I would probably go with Dumbo. For one, it doesn't rely on a cliche romance like Bambi does. The songs also aren't as forgettable. The one upside Bambi may have is the animation.

[Sotiris]

Let me get the thesaurus to insult him (her?) nice and nasty. How about..."To say your own condescending qualities are far greater than anyone else's on the board would be magnanimous at best...needs a little work, but that's a good starting point...

But I have to reveal something: I'm not entirely serious. When I call you lot deluded, it's almost in tongue-in-cheek. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a troll, I just like to have a bit of fun, and being supercilious is very fun.

Well, I didn't know that. That's understandable.

I can wholly understand possible reasons why you would. I'm not the biggest fan of Bambi's music, yet I would comprehend it if someone adored the score and songs. I understand any fan's liking towards it for the animation alone, and the cutesiness of Thumper is another understandable reason for liking Bambi. And I'd understand it if you disliked Dumbo - maybe for the admittedly archaic caricatures of the Crows, maybe for the minimalist animation, maybe for the sparse plot, maybe because of the surreal Pink Elephants scene. I simply have a differing opinion.

If you just said that from the start we could have avoided this whole incident.

[Dr Frankenollie]

If you just said that from the start we could have avoided this whole incident.

But that would have spoiled all the fun of being a nasty, far-too-up-his-own-arse critic!

[qindarka]

How did I suggest that I was special in disliking Avatar? I was supercilious, yes, but didn't insinuate the majority of people admire Avatar whatsoever.

Well, you were the one who brought it up in an unrelated topic and I've seen enough backlash against Avatar by people who think that they have the superior minority opinion, with the view that the unwashed masses all love Avatar (which isn't true). I'm sorry since this doesn't apply to you. And of course, it's possible for people to genuinely dislike the film without being influenced by these outside factors. I haven't watched Avatar either so I don't really have an opinion on the movie itself.

Sorry, but I don't allow my views on a film to be dictated by the people behind it.

Thar wasn't the point. I was trying to make a point that not everyone who likes Bambi are morons since I'm sure you doon't consider Walt to be an idiot.

Well, since you were not being serious, I'll leave it there and apologize for any hostility.

[Dr Frankenollie]

Well, you were the one who brought it up in an unrelated topic

Come now, I wasn't veering off-topic much at all! I was just making a comparison, using an example of another style-over-substance film.

[David S.]

For me, Dumbo by a mile!

(Edited to add explanation below)

Before going into details I want to say I am not attempting to speak universally or say that Dumbo is an "objectively" better film; I'm more in the school that views art as relative to the subjective interpretations of the individual viewer.

Or simply put, Dumbo just resonates stronger with me than Bambi does. Other's mileage may vary.

The theme of loveable, innocent Dumbo overcoming such adversity as being picked on and ridiculed for being who he is, and for his large ears which are clearly not his fault - even experiencing such dark things as being cruelly seperated from his mother - and then overcoming all of this triumphantly and being reunited with his mother, is very powerful.

Can there be a more likeable and innocent protagonist than Dumbo? By not speaking, the burden falls completely on the animators to bring him to life, and what a stellar job they did (notably, Bill Tytla). Also, partly since Dumbo doesn't speak, this contibutes somewhat to his universatality, making it easy for all viewers to project themselves onto the character.

Likewise, Timothy Mouse is one of my favorite "Disney sidekicks". His altruistic love and support for Dumbo, when Dumbo was at his lowest point and all alone, is quite inspiring.

As Carolinakid said, (in the post below) the score/songs/soundtrack are fabulous.

This was the first of the Classic Disney Soundtracks that I purchased on CD right after it's first release in the 90's. (And Randy Thornton did a fantastic job, keeping the score mixed with the songs and everything flowing in it's proper order).

The soundtrack holds up extremely well as a complete listening experience - the songs are all catchy and memorable, and, in the case of "Baby Mine", sublimely beautiful.

I love the instrumental score as well - from the lively circus music to the gentle and charming "Mother and Baby" motif which features prominently in the scene where Dumbo is getting a bath - and is later reprised in a melancholy version which flows PERFECTLY into "Baby Mine".

There are so many things done well in the film. Obvously "Baby Mine" is an emotional peak for me and impossible for me to watch without tearing up. And after unquestionably establishing the strong, loving bond between Dumbo and his mother, the immediate cut to the exploitative clowns plotting to make Dumbo jump from an even higher height because "Elephants don't have feelings" is both chilling and a brilliant use of contrast to the Baby Mine sequence just seen. As in, though being "human", the clowns certainly show less humanity than Dumbo and Mrs. Jumbo.

The Pink Elephants On Parade sequence is brilliant, psychadelic, innovative, fun.

I also love the anthropomorphism of Casey Jr. and his catchy theme song.

And the finale is a VERY satisfying (if short) conclusion.

Dumbo is not just my favorite DAC or Disney film - it's likely my favorite ANY film, making it hard to pick ANY film over it (and Dumbo was my avatar for most of the time I've been a member, changing it temporarily to Dopey as tribute to WDW's late Snow White darkride which closed last summer).

Before I discuss what doesn't work for me in Bambi I should praise the things I really like about it.

One notable thing I really love is the score/songs. I'm a big fan of early Walt-era Disney music, and Bambi is no exception. From the beautiful "Love Is a Song" to the catchy, gentle "Little April Shower" and the bursting with happiness "Let's Sing A Gay Little Spring Song", I enjoy all of Bambi's songs and they all make a favorable, lasting impression on me. I also love the frequent use of choral vocals in the songs and in a more abstract, purely musical way throught the score.

The instrumental musical score is equally beautiful, with different memorable motifs representing the various scenes and seasons.

The recurring use of the "Love Is A Song" melody, often with choral accompaniment, is brilliantly done, with each iteration representing changes in the mood of the film. When it occurs during sadder moments, such as it's first appearance after Bambi's mother's death, it can be quite chilling.

The art direction and multiplane shots are quite beautiful and stunning.

Regarding the story, I LOVE the early scenes with the young animals. Young Thumper especially is a hoot and steals pretty much every scene he is in ("Eating greens is a special treat...", etc)

I much prefer the first half of the film over the second, and have often said if they had just made a featurette focusing on the whimsy, cuteness, and innocence of the baby animals exploring their world, stopping short of the painful sadness that occurs with Bambi's mother's death, it would be more watchable for me.

Again, this is just my personal reaction to the film and I am in no way saying films should not have this type of "realistic" darkness in them. But as a somewhat hypersensitive person, the scene of Bambi losing his mother is very painful for me to watch, and makes me more likely to listen to the soundtrack rather than reach for the film itself (although I do watch it at least once a year as part of a chronological DAC viewing project).

Also, as another poster mentioned, the ending doesn't resolve anything. I find "Man" to be the scariest of all Disney villains because he isn't just one individual like the Evil Queen, Maleficent, or Ursula who can be defeated which makes for a tidy, satisfying ending. Rather, he is a collective and therefore still out there, ready to shoot more innocent animals and burn more forests, as part of the "cycle of life". Bambi, Faline, Thumper, and Flower could be next, for all we know.

Thus, the film's theme doesn't resonate as much for me as the more traditional themes in a film like Dumbo, which shows that the darkest adversity can be defeated and overcome and everyone lives "Happily Ever After". In Bambi, life simply goes on.

Artistically, I am in no way saying that these are not valid choices - it's more that I don't respond as favorably to them on a personal level - and therefore the emotional journey that Bambi takes me on is not as satisfying as the one I experience while watching a film like Dumbo.

But I should also stress that as an animal lover, vegetarian, and nature lover who abhors hunting, I do agree with that aspect of Bambi's theme and message. Making you care about the characters, making them personal and real, and then showing just how harmful and fatal the actions of Man can be to those characters and their home (and by extension, all the other animals in the "real world" that they represent) does make a very powerful point.

[carolinakid]

I love 'em both but if I HAD to choose, I'd pick Bambi. I do adore both scores and I listen to the soundtracks often.

[robinhood21]

Definitely Bambi whether character or movie, I find it an epic Disney moment. I even enjoyed its midquel.

[Farerb]

Bambi. I just find this film to be poetic and melancholic in a way that no other Disney film is, and it is so beautiful, and has probably my favorite soundtrack from Walt's film

I'm fine with Dumbo for what it is, but it's not on the same level as Bambi in my opinion.

[JeanGreyForever]

Not that Dumbo doesn't have its share of tragedy but I find it more palatable, because of the short running time and it feels like for most of Bambi, I'm just waiting for that infamous scene to appear.

I also adore Timothy Q. Mouse and think he is highly underrated. And Dumbo is easily the cutest Disney character although Thumper comes close.

[Disney's Divinity]

Funny, even though I made this thread, I scrolled back through this and realized I never answered. I think Bambi is overall the greater film for sure and I'd probably rank it higher as well. But Dumbo (the character) is adorable, "Baby Mine" is one of Disney's best songs, and the elephant troupe are simultaneously hilarious and effective villains.

I actually think I felt more for Mrs. Jumbo's imprisonment than the death of Bambi's mother... I guess it's because Bambi's mother is so... I'm not sure what word to put here. Anodyne? Impersonal? She feels like a bland housewife in a 1950s film. She's just there, like the wallpaper. She doesn't inspire any emotion from me like Mrs. Jumbo or other Disney parents like Geppetto, Mufasa, Triton, Fa Zhou, etc. Anyway, I do think I enjoy the first half of Bambi much more than the second half. Once he's adult, I lose interest really. His antics as a fawn with Thumper and Flower are a lot of fun though. I think Flower and Owl are my favorite characters in this film. My favorite scene is definitely the "Gallop of the Stags" scene in the field.

[Disney Duster]

I pick Bambi. It's just one of my favorite Disney movies and is so lovely, sad, and artistic.

Bambi. I just find this film to be poetic and melancholic in a way that no other Disney film is, and it is so beautiful, and has probably my favorite soundtrack from Walt's film.

Loved what you said and agree, and atcually Bambi is my favorite soundtrack from any Disney film.

[Avaitor]

Aesthetically speaking, Bambi is one of the studio's best. The focus on color and character animation used on the film was more realistically done than any of Disney's films to that point, while still containing the styles of its many animators that made their films stand out. It also contains some breathtaking sequences, particularly the death of Bambi's mother and the fire-lead finale, which still stand out.

That said, something alienates me from Bambi on an emotional level. I greatly appreciate the film, and even like it, but I'm never overwhelmed by it. Maybe it's too polished, maybe the characters aren't defined well enough, maybe both are the reasons why I don't like it as much as I should.

With Dumbo, I find that practically everything works. The story is similar in certain ways to Bambi, but I honestly feel more of a connection with Dumbo's perils than I do Bambi's. I also find the music to be vastly superior in Dumbo, with "Baby Mine" arguably being the studio's finest song period, with its sequence making for such a heartbreaking ordeal. I'm not a crier, but if any film scene could make me break down, this is one (the ending to City Lights is another).

I think I find more of a connection to Dumbo is that while most of Disney's highest-revered artists were working on Bambi, a slew of the studio's incredibly talented but less admired workers were tackling this film, and they certainly brought their A-game out. It's a labor of love for the underdogs, in what was expected to be a lesser film, similar to The Lion King, which is among my favorites of the post-Walt films.

That's my take on the films, at least.

I don't know if I'd post this again word for word, but I still mostly stand by my original post. I truly admire the artistry and poetry of Bambi, but Dumbo's mastering of simplicity ultimately sticks with me a lot more. I do truly admire both, though.

[DC Fan]

Dumbo.

Yes, I can see and say that Bambi is a superior movie in terms of animation. However, I much prefer the actual story of Dumbo. It´s simple yet very emotional. And still there are many moments of fun.

Bambi I place it second to Lady and the Tramp as one of my least liked Classics. As said, there´s no story there and on top of everything it feels so slow and tiresome/boring.

And while Dumbo didn´t have enough story there just because of that it´s short and it´s enough. Bambi doesn´t have one and it needs to drag in many scenes.

...if anything, had they found a way to actual improve on Dumbo it should have longer while Bambi shorter. Maybe then Bambi would be better for it.

PS

It´s also one of the first Disney movie my Mom showed to me.

[Farerb]

Bambi is only 6 minutes longer than Dumbo.

[DC Fan]

Bambi is only 6 minutes longer than Dumbo.

Thought it was longer. That´s how it feels to me.

By the way, funny enough, as said Dumbo was one if not the first Disney movies my Mom and I watched (also I was a single child and didn´t have my father...the more reason for me to like it more) and Bambi I didn´t watch until I started collecting DVDs/Disney with the Platinum Edition. You´d think that a movie like that and being an adult already would have helped me enjoy it more but no. Found it boring and slow. Never understood why so many people liked this movie.

As for the soundtrack Dumbo also has the best one. Including songs. However, I have a very strange history with it.

Dumbo I only watched once, maybe, and because I was so little I just remembered the movie itself. Then I would watch the Mexican comedy show El Chavo del Ocho. Grew watching it many, many times (as so many people in Latin America did). What´s the point of that? That, I´m guessing they must have bought the rights to them, the show used the soundrack for Dumbo, Pinocchio and maybe Peter Pan. The music not the songs. As such I remember them very well. So, what was my surprise when I viewed those movies again after that many years, having bought the DVDs, and hearing the music. To this day whenever I watch those movies/listen to the songs they take me out and make me remember the show. Can´t think they belong to those movies.

[JeanGreyForever]

Bambi is only 6 minutes longer than Dumbo.

Oh wow, really? It feels much longer lol. And I know Walt had to fight hard for Dumbo to be considered a full-length film so that's strange that Bambi was only 6 minutes longer but it never had that issue.

[Disney Duster]

DC Fan, even though I prefer Bambi to Dumbo because I like wistful movies, I really love the story you told about you relating to Dumbo and you remembering the music from that Mexican show. The music of Dumbo, Pinocchio and Peter Pan probably has a lot of lovely nostalgia for you.

[Disney's Divinity]

Thought it was longer. That´s how it feels to me.

I agree, Bambi drags on so that it feels much longer than it is... The truth is half the time I watch Bambi, I fall asleep midway through and have to finish it when I wake up.

[DC Fan]

DC Fan, even though I prefer Bambi to Dumbo because I like wistful movies, I really love the story you told about you relating to Dumbo and you remembering the music from that Mexican show. The music of Dumbo, Pinocchio and Peter Pan probably has a lot of lovely nostalgia for you.

Thank you!

To be honest, while I do have fond memories of that show it bothers me now that they used the soundtrack from those movies. And the did fit. However, now they take me out of those movies and had they done their own music I´d still have remembered the show with their own music.

Funny story, don´t know how Disney allowed this but Elephant on Parade talks about horror wondering spirits. That´s the actual subtitle of the movie and even is sung there. Plus, it has these gems on it:

-"Maybe they are Satan´s relatives",
-"I, that defied the Devil and his tail I plucked..."

I don´t get why or how it got to that point. I can understand that the song doesn´t translate well to Spanish since we don´t have that story that drunk people see pink elephants. But from that to call out Satan is way too far.