Pixar's Brave - Part II

[Sotiris]

“I went through looking for a fairy tale that I could adapt through Grimms, trying to find a good mother/daughter story that I could adapt and I just couldn’t find one,” Brenda Chapman shared after finding that most fairy tales either have a mother who’s deceased or wicked. “Along the way, I sort of collected different pieces and one of them is Snow White and Rose Red, which is not Snow White. There’s a bear in there and of course it’s a prince, but I love the idea that there’s a bear. There’s a bit where the two sisters get to snuggle with this bear… I liked that idea and also Merida having a skill that was unusual for a princess. It’s not just singing and dancing and twirling or talking to animals. I really wanted to find these different things that made a good fairytale and I love bears so it all worked.” She also commented on the title, which was changed beyond her control. “It was frustrating for a while because anything with a female name or connotation had it removed.” Originally called “The Bear and the Bow,” the title was changed because executives feared people would think the “Bow” was an accessory and not a weapon. This was around the same time that Rapunzel was retitled Tangled and The Snow Queen became Frozen.

Source: https://www.laughingplace.com/w/article ... ter-hours/

[blackcauldron85]

^ Are you KIDDING me?!?!?! A hair bow?! OMG. Or, ya know, market your movie so everyone actually knows what it's about? The title doesn't add to or take away my enjoyment of the film, but wow. (I just watched it maybe 3 days ago- still holds up, it's a great movie with a lot of heart and funny moments.) Snow White and Rose Red cozy up to the same man-bear at the same time? Do they know it's a prince?! I need to whip out my fairy tale books...#scandalous I like that Merida has archery- I love how excited she gets when she learns she gets to choose what the guys will be doing to compete for her. And when she introduces herself at the tournament. I don't give Merida enough credit, because I think that she's a strong character...obviously she's not perfect, but I like her. And Mum-Bear has some really funny moments (and of course Merida's family does)...

[Disney's Divinity]

It’s not just singing and dancing and twirling

This part made me crack up.

“It was frustrating for a while because anything with a female name or connotation had it removed.”

I’m glad we finally have confirmation that the female association is the reason we ended up with stupid titles like Brave, Tangled, and Frozen now. The Bear and the Bow was such an epic title…

I guess if Tangled hadn’t done well, we wouldn’t have got another film that was either 1.) based on a fairytale, 2.) featured a female protagonist, or 3.) that was a musical for a very long time. So I'm grateful for Tangled's success, even if it benefited 3D animation, too. Menken being pushed out following that film is the only thing that never made any sense.

[Disney Duster]

So I guess a big, powerful, violent bear in a title wasn't enough to overcome a girl's hair bow being in said title and scaring off boys...

[DisneyFan97]

I like this movie a lot !!

Usually watch it in Swedish !

[Farerb]

Here's a good video I came across that talks about why Brave had a lot of potential, but ultimately became a disappointment. He talks about the two disconnected plots of the film and talks about all the situation behind the scenes. Seeing how Mark Andrews speak in this, it's very clear that he didn't understand what Brenda Chapman was trying to do with the film, meaning that Brenda Chapman went for a story about how society expectations from women affected them at that time period, while Andrews claims that this film is "gender neutral". It also strengthen the notion that Lasseter probably let go of Chapman because he feared that the film was too feminine. I do not agree With Andrews about it being gender neutral, Merida and Elinor's story could not be told if they were male. However, the sad thing is that this is the only Pixar film that is like that, cause I would say that even the other three Pixar films that have female protagonists do feel gender neutral.
https://youtu.be/wRjHL8kbkZk

[JeanGreyForever]

Here's a good video I came across that talks about why Brave had a lot of potential, but ultimately became a disappointment. He talks about the two disconnected plots of the film and talks about all the situation behind the scenes. Seeing how Mark Andrews speak in this, it's very clear that he didn't understand what Brenda Chapman was trying to do with the film, meaning that Brenda Chapman went for a story about how society expectations from women affected them at that time period, while Andrews claims that this film is "gender neutral". It also strengthen the notion that Lasseter probably let go of Chapman because he feared that the film was too feminine. I do not agree With Andrews about it being gender neutral, Merida and Elinor's story could not be told if they were male. However, the sad thing is that this is the only Pixar film that is like that, cause I would say that even the other three Pixar films that have female protagonists do feel gender neutral.
https://youtu.be/wRjHL8kbkZk

Thanks for the video! That was very insightful. A film can appeal to both genders even while remaining a woman centric story but that wasn't the case here since they were so afraid of making a "women's picture" that they tried to alter the film so that it no longer was about the relationship between two women and more of a coming of age story. We rarely get films about mothers in Disney anyway (meanwhile look at how many feature fathers or father figures) so I'm not surprised that Pixar, who hadn't even had a female protagonist yet, would be so afraid of going this route when even Disney animation hadn't.

And I agree about what you said featuring the other female protagonists. Inside Out and Finding Dory wouldn't be that different if Riley/Joy/Sadness and Dory were male instead of female. Incredibles 2 I think is a bit of an exception to that because Elastigirl is the one becoming the family's breadwinner in order to connect to current day families that feature working moms and stay-at-home dads. I think the villain was specifically chosen as female on purpose for that as well, the idea that Evelyn is the brains behind the success of her family company even while her man-child brother gets all the credit in public. That's part of why Evelyn connects with Elastigirl before her villain identity is revealed because both can be seen as women who have stood in the shadows of their male counterparts for far too long. Notice that out of the new superheroes who are included in the film, the most prominent one is Voyd, also a female character, who looks up to Elastigirl as a role model.

[DisneyFan09]

Regarding the everlasting criticism against Brave, the two things that hampered it were false advertising and wrong expectations. Since it was a Pixar property, people were expecting it to be more inventive and innovative than just a compromised Princess Movie. Which is why naysayers and purists were attacking Disney for destroying Pixar at the time (a buzz that has now seemed to have settled down wth the release of Onward). Regardless, the transformation plotline feels incongruous on it's own right. In fact, Brave suffered a lot of incongruity. And therefore feels, like the uploader of the video said, an uneven, broken film. Regardless of whether Brave should've been seen as a Pixar or Disney property, it's flawed on it's own right because of it's storyline that feels randomly stitched.

[Farerb]

Regarding the everlasting criticism against Brave, the two things that hampered it were false advertising and wrong expectations. Since it was a Pixar property, people were expecting it to be more inventive and innovative than just a compromised Princess Movie. Which is why naysayers and purists were attacking Disney for destroying Pixar at the time (a buzz that has now seemed to have settled down wth the release of Onward). Regardless, the transformation plotline feels incongruous on it's own right. In fact, Brave suffered a lot of incongruity. And therefore feels, like the uploader of the video said, an uneven, broken film. Regardless of whether Brave should've been seen as a Pixar or Disney property, it's flawed on it's own right because of it's storyline that feels randomly stitched.

I really hated it and to me that sort of criticism reeks of misogyny. What makes this film not "worthy" to be called a "Pixar film" while Pixar's lesser efforts like A Bug's Life, Cars and The Good Dinosaur never got this contempt. Pixar, like any other studio, have their good films and their bad films, so what makes this film different than other Pixar films? No it's not great, but like I said neither A Bug's Life or Cars are (and these were released before the acquisition), the only thing that diffrentiate it is that it has a princess and it's geared towards female audience.

[UmbrellaFish]

Slightly derailing the discussion of the movie to share my experience of meeting Merida in the parks.

Towards the end of my Disney College Program at Disney World, I wrangled a friend into meeting all the Disney Princesses with me. It’s something I always wanted to do but felt silly doing it alone and most of my other friends never wanted to meet face characters with me. That day we met a *lot* of Princesses and Princesses-adjacent (Tink and Poppins) between Epcot and the Magic Kingdom.

I was willing to skip Merida because of my Disney bias and because I didn’t really like the movie, but my friend insisted because she was from the UK and Merida is a UK Princess. As an adult meeting face characters made me anxious sometimes, especially when you don’t know their movies super well so you can’t make jokes or banter with them (the first character I met on me DCP was Kylo Ren and the photo is just hilariously awful partly for this reason). I’m so glad she pressed me to get in line because it was such a wonderful, sweet experience, probably the best character experience I ever had.

I was wearing a pin which said I was celebrating the end of my College Program and she so wonderfully connected with me and said the nicest, most heartfelt things while remaining in character. She gave me a definition of being brave and told me the most inspirational things for my future. I could tell that she had either done a CP herself or had friends who were CP’s and it was just such an awesome moment because I connected with Merida the character and whoever this person was, the fellow cast member. It’s made me a lot more forgiving in my assessment of her movie, I can tell you that!

[DisneyFan09]

I really hated it and to me that sort of criticism reeks of misogyny. What makes this film not "worthy" to be called a "Pixar film" while Pixar's lesser efforts like A Bug's Life, Cars and The Good Dinosaur never got this contempt. Pixar, like any other studio, have their good films and their bad films, so what makes this film different than other Pixar films? No it's not great, but like I said neither A Bug's Life or Cars are (and these were released before the acquisition), the only thing that diffrentiate it is that it has a princess and it's geared towards female audience.

You're absolutely right. While those Pixar films you've mentioned received flack for being "lesser Pixar", it seemed like Brave was regarded as the epitome of "dud-Pixar". Mostly because it belongs to the line of Pixar's downfall that was started by Cars 2, but also because it was compromised, Disneyfied Pixar (and who said that Disney were the only ones entitled to make a movie starring a Princess, anyway?). To be honest, I loved A Bug's Life when I first saw it (despite that later viewings have made it less stellar) and I still regard Cars highly, no matter what people say about. The Good Dinosaur was somewhat a dud, though it had it's moments. And while Brave is still highly flawed, it still had some truly great components. So I definitively agree with your statement.

[JeanGreyForever]

I really hated it and to me that sort of criticism reeks of misogyny. What makes this film not "worthy" to be called a "Pixar film" while Pixar's lesser efforts like A Bug's Life, Cars and The Good Dinosaur never got this contempt. Pixar, like any other studio, have their good films and their bad films, so what makes this film different than other Pixar films? No it's not great, but like I said neither A Bug's Life or Cars are (and these were released before the acquisition), the only thing that diffrentiate it is that it has a princess and it's geared towards female audience.

You're absolutely right. While those Pixar films you've mentioned received flack for being "lesser Pixar", it seemed like Brave was regarded as the epitome of "dud-Pixar". Mostly because it belongs to the line of Pixar's downfall that was started by Cars 2, but also because it was compromised, Disneyfied Pixar (and who said that Disney were the only ones entitled to make a movie starring a Princess, anyway?). To be honest, I loved A Bug's Life when I first saw it (despite that later viewings have made it less stellar) and I still regard Cars highly, no matter what people say about. The Good Dinosaur was somewhat a dud, though it had it's moments. And while Brave is still highly flawed, it still had some truly great components. So I definitively agree with your statement.

I didn't even think about the fact that Brave got picked on by audience members and critics for ruining Disney, not just because it was Pixar's first fairy tale but also because it was their first female-led film. Even without the fairy tale element, that would have made Brave an easy target but the fact that it was part of what's considered a traditionally feminine storyline didn't help at all. I remember back in the 2000s, people used to divide Disney with Disney Animation for girls and Pixar for boys. So Brave's very existence would have been very threatening for the Pixar fanboys, many of whom I imagine would be cut from the same misogynistic cloth as John Lasseter.

Brave also gets considered a dud because it was sandwiched between Cars 2 and Monsters University even though the latter gets undue criticism imo. Inside Out reignited faith in viewers (even if I'm not a fan) but The Good Dinosaur took some of that goodwill away (or maybe not since most people didn't even realize it exists).

I'm a huge fan of A Bug's Life although I don't really care for Cars. The first film is good but not great and I wouldn't ever watch the other two.

[Tristy]

It's kind of funny I remember this troll that kept invading the Brave boards on the iMDB site back when those were still around and he definitely had some issues with Brave being a princess movie. Like he was talking about how the songs incorporated were definitely a Disney decision since they had a woman singing them.

A) "When She Loved Me" from Toy Story 2.

B) The songs in Brave wouldn't be all that out of place in a Celtic Woman concert or maybe even something like the end credits of Lord of the Rings.

C) Princesses were a thing long before Disney came into existence. I know Disney markets the ever loving heck out of them but it has gotten to the point where we seem to forget that the stories and tales of princesses have been around for centuries.

[Sotiris]

The film is getting a sequel in the form of a novel.


Source: https://www.amazon.com/Bravely-Maggie-S ... 368071341/

The young princess needs a change in her life — a new adventure, a purpose for herself — amongst the humdrum of days surrounded by her clan. What she doesn’t expect is for that change to come in the form of Feradach, a supernatural being intent on destroying the whole of DunBroch and everyone within it. In order to save her realm and those she loves, Merida makes a deal with the ancient Cailleach: convince her family to change, and remove the rot and stagnation from their lives as royals, or suffer the consequences. Merida has four seasons to save her home and her family, or risk it being destroyed forever, embarking on a series of journeys in an attempt to rouse rebellion within those she loves. Can she successfully battle time and rescue her kingdom — or will her own stagnation become her downfall?

Source: https://collider.com/maggie-stiefvater- ... cover-art/

[DisneyFan09]

Surprised that it`s given a "sequel". And without Brenda Chapman. Wonder what she must think of it.

[estefan]

Surprised that it`s given a "sequel". And without Brenda Chapman. Wonder what she must think of it.

I was wondering about Chapman's thoughts, too, and then I remembered she was heavily involved in some of the '90s Disney Renaissance films, so she's probably familiar with Disney's other divisions expanding on the animated films in books and comics.

[DisneyFan09]

I was wondering about Chapman's thoughts, too, and then I remembered she was heavily involved in some of the '90s Disney Renaissance films, so she's probably familiar with Disney's other divisions expanding on the animated films in books and comics.

True. But unlike those films, Brave was first and foremost her project. Coming from her own ideas and inspirations.

[PatrickvD]

I think even personal stories at Disney have been subject to sequels and other iterations. Lilo & Stitch has been milked dry as well. But yeah, it’s definitely a deeply personal story still.

I would love a redemption for Brenda now that the people that made her life hell at Disney have largely gone away. And it’s owed to have more of the truth out there. It still feels like that’s being kept under wraps for PR sake.

[thedisneyspirit]

After hearing how good the movie was before it was changed by Disney, I hate Disney even more. The Pixar haters here all claim Pixar sabotaged Disney but this is just more proof (along with making Pixar Disney+ only) that it's really the opposite.

Disney is really such an insidious company.

[Disney's Divinity]

Pretty sure Lasseter did most of the butchering with this movie, not Disney.