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 Post subject: Re: Moana
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:56 pm 
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I stumbled upon this old article that hasn't been posted here before while searching for something else. I find the Pixar Brain Trust giving notes to Musker & Clements ridiculous and insulting. Their movies are better than anything Pixar has ever produced. The Pixacity (Pixar + audacity) of it all! :headshake:

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Q: You said you brought Moana up to Pixar. What sort of notes did they give?

Ron Clements: A few notes. They said they loved the ocean character.

John Musker: They said do more with the ocean and the tattoo, because they were so unique to the film. We had less of that in the movie, so we put more of that in. One of the other big notes was, when the ocean picked her as a toddler, they felt like she should do something for the ocean to pick her. So that whole thing with her helping the turtle to shore, that came out of that Pixar screening. That idea came up there, so that got developed there.
Source: https://www.mandatory.com/culture/11677 ... rney-moana

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 Post subject: Re: Moana
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:26 pm 
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Pixacity :lol:

I actually like that Moana protects the turtle at the beginning. I'm sure Lasseter and co. interfered with the film even more than we'll ever know (and in many ways not for the better, to me at least). That's their thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Moana
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:24 pm 
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So it was the brain trust's suggestion to anthropomorphize the ocean and make the tattoos alive (making inanimate objects alive is another of Lasseter's trademarks)? Well, I must confess I did like Mini Maui's tap dancing during the musical number.

I remember reading an article or inside interview where some anonymous Disney employees were pretty angry after the Pixar acquisition because of how they felt the Pixar traditions were forced on them, as if they didn't have any traditions or heritage of their own. It ended with "Lasseter and Catmull were not open for comments". I have tried hard to find it again, but it seems to have disappeared completely from the net.


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 Post subject: Re: Moana
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:47 pm 
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Rumpelstiltskin wrote:
So it was the brain trust's suggestion to anthropomorphize the ocean and make the tattoos alive (making inanimate objects alive is another of Lasseter's trademarks)? Well, I must confess I did like Mini Maui's tap dancing during the musical number.

The Ocean is basically Carpet 2.0.


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 Post subject: Re: Moana
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:53 pm 
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At least with this film we won't be able to be grossly incorrect because no one likes it here.


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 Post subject: Re: Moana
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:44 am 
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I like it. I don't love it but I like it. I'm sure plenty of other people here like it too. Some of Musker and Clements' storytelling sensibilities were able to shine through despite Lasseter's dirty fingerprints on the film. Tangled, Frozen, and Moana are my favorites from WDAS' CG movies (it may not mean much when the bar's so low but it's something).

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 Post subject: Re: Moana
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:48 am 
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I really like it too. It's my third favorite from the revival (my first two are Tangled and Zootopia). It's true that it has Lasseter's influence, and maybe Musker and Clements couldn't do everything they wanted (like making it in 2D), but I can clearly see their style too in every aspect of the movie (storytelling, characters, character design, etc). Also, the movie will always be special to me because I was going through a bit of a tough time in my life when it was released and the message of the movie is exactly what I needed back then (especially the "I Am Moana" scene).


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 Post subject: Re: Moana
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:40 am 
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I absolutely love Moana. One of this era's best. And LOL @ those coming so hard on Lasseter/Catmull. WDAS was churning out crappy films one after another for nearly a decade. Lasseter's involvement/guidance/tyranny/whatever was the best thing that happened to it in the last 20 years.


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 Post subject: Re: Moana
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:52 pm 
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I love Frozen, and TP&TF, too, despite some flaws. I just like Moana and Zootopia. They do feature some of the same blandness that’s characteristic of the whole revival, imo. It’s like you can feel that the films are boiled down and down for the sake of mass consumption. Nothing raw, nothing real makes its way into these films, because that might turn a portion of the audience off and Disney wants to rake as much money in as they can get. The revival is more financially successful and consistent (to the point of repetitiveness, but still consistent) than the '00s, that I can give Lasseter.

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 Post subject: Re: Moana
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:20 pm 
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"How Far I'll Go" from Disney's Moana is now certified 5x PLATINUM by The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA)!!

Congratulations to Lin Manuel Miranda, Auli'i Cravalho, and the #Moana team!

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https://www.facebook.com/104788928960/p ... 947538961/


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 Post subject: Re: Moana
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:55 pm 
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Sotiris wrote:
I like it. I don't love it but I like it. I'm sure plenty of other people here like it too. Some of Musker and Clements' storytelling sensibilities were able to shine through despite Lasseter's dirty fingerprints on the film.

To be honest, Moana didn't feel completely as classic breezy and bouncy Musker and Clements. It had it's moments where it felt like it. But it wasn't as frantic and frisky as Musker and Clements features usually are. Even The Princess and the Frog felt more like typical Musker and Clements.

Quote:
Tangled, Frozen, and Moana are my favorites from WDAS' CG movies (it may not mean much when the bar's so low but it's something).

To be honest, both Tangled and Moana are to be superior to Frozen, in my opinion. Frozen was actually too hampered by many flaws that I've ranted about before, despite having a couple of great songs (For the First Time in Forever, Let it Go, Frozen Heart). Even Frozen II was superior to it's predecessor. So all three of them happens to be in my "like"-category. I like them, but not love them.


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 Post subject: Re: Moana
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:33 pm 
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DisneyFan09 wrote:
To be honest, both Tangled and Moana are to be superior to Frozen, in my opinion. Frozen was actually too hampered by many flaws that I've ranted about before, despite having a couple of great songs (For the First Time in Forever, Let it Go, Frozen Heart). Even Frozen II was superior to it's predecessor. So all three of them happens to be in my "like"-category. I like them, but not love them.

To me it's Moana > Tangled > Frozen > Frozen II.
IMO Moana's strength is in the characters, their development and interaction. I actually think the plot is fine, yeah I know "Road Trip" and all, but honestly how can they do a movie about sea voyaging without the actual voyaging (that's what I think M&C learned from TPatF and decided to go with an idea where the "road trip" aspect can be more organic instead of forced), the climax is the best since the 90's and the songs increase in emotion as the story does (no awkward comedy troll interlude while a character is literally dying).
Tangled has a good script and plot structure, but music is not that memorable and I hate that the movie doesn't end with a song.


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 Post subject: Re: Moana
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:23 pm 
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I LOVE THIS MOVIE WITH ALL OF MY HEART !!!!!!! :D :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :up: :up: :dance: :dance: :woot: :pink: :clap:


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 Post subject: Re: Moana
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:28 pm 
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I like it better than Tangled but that's not saying much. Still prefer both Frozens by far. The anachronistic jokes and digs at Disney don't gel well with me.

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 Post subject: Re: Moana
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:20 pm 
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Watched it again today and I really admire the strong theme of identity in this film. By how Moana is conflicted between her longing to go to the ocean and doing what's right for her people. How the two things are bridged together in the end by Moana learning about who she really is, about her people's past and culture. It is also there with Maui, who learns who he is with or without the hook.
And it is beautifully concluded in the climax by Moana helping Te Fiti come around to who she really is, thus saving the world and her people.
I also really like how the women here support each other, whether it's Tala who brings Moana consolation when she fails, or Sina who understands Moana's wishes and lets her go against Tui's cause it's the right thing to do, and finally Moana, who helps Te Fiti regain her heart.
I feel like this film has a lot of nuance and so many under the surface, which is easy to overlook because on the surface it seems like an ordinary Disney formulaic film while it has much more in my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: Moana
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:20 pm 
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farerb wrote:
Sina who understands Moana's wishes and lets her go against Tui's cause it's the right thing to do

Yes, I'm always extremely touched by that moment. I think Sina knew that the journey not only meant a lot to Moana, but to Tala, too

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 Post subject: Re: Moana
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:11 pm 
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The sequence was storyboarded by David Derrick.

Side by Side: I Am Moana

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 Post subject: Re: Moana
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:53 am 
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farerb wrote:
Watched it again today and I really admire the strong theme of identity in this film. By how Moana is conflicted between her longing to go to the ocean and doing what's right for her people. How the two things are bridged together in the end by Moana learning about who she really is, about her people's past and culture.

I always considered that an easy and convenient narrative choice. She gets to have her dream without any real sacrifice. She never has to make a truly difficult decision. I find the Little Mermaid's exploration of identity much more genuine and believable. Her being enamored with a culture outside her own and in the end choosing to live amongst humans despite the personal cost is a much more radical and bold move.

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 Post subject: Re: Moana
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:11 am 
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I don't really see their archs comparable. They have different goals, different "wants", different "needs". Moana's arch is about becoming a good leader to her people, but in order to do that she needs to be set on her journey. Her want is to be in the ocean, her need is to learn how to go on the ocean benefits her people. That's why she goes through a wayfinding lesson cause without it she can't really do her role as a leader, that's why she learns about her people's past and culture, because she needs to learn about her history in order to lead her people to their future, in the same way the theme of identity is about Moana, Maui, Te Fiti, it is also about Motunui's people. They lost their identity as a people when they stopped voyaging, and Moana is the person who's going to help them regain it. Moana doesn't have a sacrifice because that's not what her story is about, just like a lot of nostalgic Disney films like The Lion King, etc...
I do however think that Maui should have learn that his abilities comes from him and not the hook and the hook should have remained destroyed in the end.
The only film I can say that they chose the eazy narrative choise is Tarzan because, like The Little Mermaid, they do raise that question in the film but decided that he could stay in the Jungle and have Jane with him. I think he should have given up on the Jungle and go back to Britain with Jane and I do think the movie is weaker for it.


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 Post subject: Re: Moana
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:34 am 
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farerb wrote:
The only film I can say that they chose the easy narrative choice is Tarzan because, like The Little Mermaid, they do raise that question in the film but decided that he could stay in the Jungle and have Jane with him. I think he should have given up on the Jungle and go back to Britain with Jane and I do think the movie is weaker for it.

But he did make the difficult choice of staying in the jungle even when that meant losing Jane. Jane ultimately deciding to stay is irrelevant as Tarzan didn't know that at the time. Tarzan never wished to be in a world where others looked like him; he wanted to be accepted by his gorilla community. Leaving the jungle and going to England wouldn't have been true to his character. You could argue they should have taken a different route with his arc from that start, but based on the way his coming-of-age story was presented up to that point, leaving the jungle wouldn't have felt right.

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