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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:11 am 
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I also agree with Goliath and all who defended enigmawing. Everything they said makes sense, and it was met defensively. That's very stubborn, in my opinion.

I don't know any more than your average joe about all this stuff, but I feel like if there is indeed something on this site, however small, that doesn't fit Google's guidelines, then it should be fixed.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:54 am 
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I'm just dropping in quickly to say that I hope nobody was offended by what I wrote -- I had just been getting the feeling that people were looking at the site as one big message board. I know the forums are important, but there is more at stake here.

Also, don't think that Luke isn't taking suggestions seriously. There is a lot to figure out before taking any major action.

This brings me to my primary reason for asking people to spread the word. I don't think sharing the article will automatically fix things, but I DO think it's the only way we can reach Google to find out just HOW we have violated guidelines. Somebody named Matt Cutts ( @mattcutts on Twitter) is the head of Google's webspam team -- and one of the people responsible for our penalty. We have contacted him many times via Twitter asking for help and he won't reply to us, although if you check his Twitter page he DOES respond to number of smaller sites who are looking for help. This doesn't seem right. And, really, a simple answer from this person will help us determine exactly which path we need to take to solve the problem. Sure, Google doesn't care about our modest site -- why should they? But this one guy has no excuse to be ignoring us.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:53 pm 
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Google does not use the keywords meta tag in web ranking:
http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot. ... a-tag.html

I'm not being defensive or stubborn. I welcome any advice anyone can supply. I've already acted on some of it. And thank you for the offers to help.

Beyond that... we have thousands of pages on this site, every one of which is predominantly coded by hand. To go through every one of them and speculate what <u>might</u> have caused this seemingly unwarranted penalty is not feasible. Not by me. Not by 100 people, doing nothing else for three years. I did some reformatting of old pages a while back and that was extraordinarily time-consuming even knowing what I wanted to be done. It's not a good or enjoyable use of time, not to hang on a "maybe."

Google's quality guidelines are no help whatsoever. "Keep the links on a given page to a reasonable number." Who is to say what is "reasonable"? I don't think it's reasonable for Google and its head of "webspam", who is happy to look into other sites' puzzling issues from AdSense cancellation to News source refusals, not to take the 2-5 minutes necessary to tell us what the issue is. After all, they took the time to inflict this penalty and effectively alter the next 20 or so years of my life. It only seems fair.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:13 pm 
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I think the best way everyone can help is tweet @mattcutts over and over until he chooses to respond...we need more than me, or Luke or Aaron,,,we need everyone to tweet to @mattcutts so we can know exactly what is being penalized....Tweet on twitter...re-tweet some of @ultimatedisney posts regarding this....If we keep on tweeting....and more and more and more and more of us do....I think that's our only hope of getting his attention. So anyone with Twitter account get to it....and if you don't have twitter...well I see no better time than now to get one...

Also To Luke:....is there a way to Call Google via a customer service number...Like in the link below? Would it do any good...

http://www.google.com/intl/en/about/cor ... dress.html

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:21 pm 
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Luke, the problem is that you're angry at "Google."

You need to get past that, however frustrating the situation is, and realize that

Google doesn't care.

Why should they? If I was a multi-billion dollar company, I would not give a rat's ass about some miniscule little company that has nothing to do with my well-being.

You say "it isn't a good or enjoyable use of time", and I think you need to realize that fixing a major issue such as this is not usually a good, or certainly enjoyable, use of time. Whether it takes you ten years or it takes you ten days, if there is something that is even possibly questionable about this site, I would think that you would be willing to take that time to fix it.

Again, not trying to be rude, but it does come off as if you feel like you are entitled to something. Some help, or some explanation. But this has happened before to other websites, and it will happen again. You just happen to be the latest victim. You started this website by yourself, and it has become your job. So it's not up to Google to fix this. It's up to you.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:22 pm 
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SWillie! wrote:
Again, not trying to be rude, but it does come off as if you feel like you are entitled to something.


I'm glad I'm coming off that way, because I do feel like I am entitled to an explanation. I don't care how big Google is. Their chief mission is to return the best results to Internet searchers. The multi-billion dollar company is founded upon this. This penalty is a detriment to that mission and they should care. I'm not deluded enough to think this site and this penalty mean anything in the big scheme of things. But this is a terrible message being sent to anyone who ever intends to use the Internet to create anything, which is that it can all go away in an instant for no reason whatsoever. This violates almost every basic human principle I can think of and it's just a terrible way to run a business. It also makes me question the point of a penalty, if nothing is to be gained from it. Furthermore, I have found many instances where they have cared and provided help too as recently as yesterday, so they are being selective in ignoring us. As far as I can tell, Google has screwed up, but because they have done this before and will do it again, it's up to me to fix it?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:39 pm 
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Luke wrote:
As far as I can tell, Google has screwed up, but because they have done this before and will do it again, it's up to me to fix it?


In my honest opinion, yes.

Again, Google doesn't care. They're past the point where they need to be worried about things like this. You're right that they were founded on it, but they're bigger than that now.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:06 pm 
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pinkrenata wrote:
[...] This brings me to my primary reason for asking people to spread the word. I don't think sharing the article will automatically fix things, but I DO think it's the only way we can reach Google to find out just HOW we have violated guidelines. Somebody named Matt Cutts ( @mattcutts on Twitter) is the head of Google's webspam team -- and one of the people responsible for our penalty. We have contacted him many times via Twitter asking for help and he won't reply to us, [...]

I'm sorry to come off harshly once again, but didn't someone else in this thread already gava a link to Google's guidelines and sum up some of dvdizzy's violations (meaning there are more than a few)? I've seen some tweets Luke has send to Matt Cutts and I think he's hurting his cause far more than he's helping it:

"@mattcutts How do you sleep at night knowing your team kills a quality 10-year-old site without any warning or explanation?"

Does Luke really think he can make Google change its mind with this kind of melodrama? What made him think: "hmmm, maybe emotional blackmail will work"? Publicly naming and shaming won't exactly warm them up toward starting a dialogue with you. Does Google even 'warn' any site before they throw it back in the search results? Wouldn't Google be busy all day if it did that? Isn't it the job of site admins to keep an eye on meeting Google's criteria?

Mind you, I'm *not* defending this privacy-violating, censorshup-enabling corporation at all!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:18 pm 
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Luke, here's an article geared to helping people in your position: http://www.ksl-consulting.co.uk/google_penalty.html . . . in particular the cross-linking section seems to apply in this case.

And no offense, but I doubt attempting to guilt-trip Matt Cutt with your tweets will do anything to motivate him into offering you assistance.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:24 pm 
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Goliath wrote:
"@mattcutts How do you sleep at night knowing your team kills a quality 10-year-old site without any warning or explanation?"


If I was Matt Cutts in this situation, I would do whatever I could to MAKE SURE that said site is taken off the face of the internet.

This is childish, and completely unprofessional. While enigmawing says "no offense", let me tell you that I mean offense. You might as well kiss the site goodbye, acting like that.


Last edited by SWillie! on Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:50 pm 
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Goliath wrote:
"@mattcutts How do you sleep at night knowing your team kills a quality 10-year-old site without any warning or explanation?"

I'm surprised Luke sent him that message. It constrasts his formal posts on this forum.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:22 pm 
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I don’t think there’s any need to harangue Luke. It’s his personal life, and what he does is his business and his alone. We’re just members on a forum who have very little to lose either way, so I honestly feel there’s no reason to give lectures and soap box speeches about what you think he should/shouldn't do. He’s welcomed the advice, but what he does with it is nobody’s business.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:33 pm 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
I don’t think there’s any need to harangue Luke. It’s his personal life, and what he does is his business and his alone. We’re just members on a forum who have very little to lose either way, so I honestly feel there’s no reason to give lectures and soap box speeches about what you think he should/shouldn't do. He’s welcomed the advice, but what he does with it is nobody’s business.

Excuse me, but nobody is 'lecturing' him. Of course he can do whatever he wants, but we're just here to tell him our opinions. If he didn't want to read it, he wouldn't have opened this thread. Right now, it seems to me (and I'm not saying I'm right, but this is just my impression, based on his posts) he's giving up. I'm just trying to motivate him, in his own interest.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:42 am 
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I have to agree....on that particular tweet....In my experience even when someone I knew was lying through their teeth......you'll can catch more flies with honey over vinegar....and I understand that particular Tweet was probably Luke venting....I mean..I'm pissed at google and Matt Cutts right now...but....also would there be any sense in calling Google via telephone..I find when call places I get more help than just sending an email or tweeting or sending a message..

http://www.google.com/intl/en/about/cor ... dress.html

and Luke........kill them with kindness...I know google isn't treating you right at all....but be the better man...which I understand is very hard to do at times....And Maybe calling google on that link above might help....it's worth a shot....and keep cool...don't stoop to the level that google is treating you...you're much better than that....

and that twitter comment....if someone posted it here....it would probably be considered a personal attack.....and also in the sitepocolypse link you have some guy in a devil outfit....that also probably doesn't help the situation....and I know you've been wronged by google....sorry if I sound like i'm lecturing too much....

Maybe there could be created in time another site....save all the info of reviews to a file and maybe just create a new site....although I know you shouldn't have to at all....

Also I have a question, Why does it Matter with google anyway.....I search on yahoo and bing and ultimatedisney or dvdizzy still comes up number 1.......I know it's probably a dumb question....

And to everyone.....if these are the last few months of this site I would rather not spend them bickering about what Luke should do could would do needs to do.....Those are not the memories I want if the worst should happen...let's all be civilized here....I hope to find another site to post on...if the worst should happen.... though I want to go where everyone else would go....such as escapay, brenders, kelvin, Wondy...loomis, amy, and pap64, goliath, dsney duster and everyone else goes....and when I buy movies from now on I'm using the link of amazon to help support that site.....

those are just my random thoughts and questions...and opinions...

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:20 am 
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The site isn't really doing anything to violate Google's terms and conditions. Again, I've tried to find cross-domain links, but I can't. The redirect seems to be working fine (although again, because I'm at work, I've only had a few minutes).

The number of links on the front page MAY be an issue - but they're mostly internal (so the site shouldn't be listed as a link farm) and Google does make exceptions for home pages anyway. Most of the other pages (of which Luke says there are thousands - and at the very least hundreds) don't have excessive links.

Nor does the forum, which is more or less a standard forum. Google should not penalise a site simply for the home page!

I'd don't know if you included me in your list Goliath, but I'm not apologising for Luke or the site - there are clearly umpteen sites out there violating Google's "quality" guidelines. And let's look at the wording they use - "guidelines", Google never seems to stick to hard and fast rules. Hell, they change their rules every time they do an algorithm update.

The point is just looking at the reviews alone, this site has hundreds of content rich pages full of unique and relevant content - this is, after all, what Google claims to be prioritising in its search results.

I'm going to repeat something that I know Luke won't want to hear, and it will involve considerable work, but I really think the site needs to be migrated to a content management system. It may not improve its ratings immediately - but being as the site is effectively broken it can't make things much worse, even if all the current URLs end up being changed. But it will make the site more manageable once the work is done - the content will be split from the physical page structure and look and feel meaning this can be changed with relatively little work while keeping the content intact should such a situation happen in the future once (hopefully) the site's search rank has once more increased.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:23 am 
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disneyboy20022 wrote:
you'll can catch more flies with honey over vinegar....


This is a good point. But it also can be true that "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" ;)

It's a fine line and without getting involved in the debate about what Luke should or shouldn't do, I just want to tell Luke I am truly sorry to hear that Google is putting you through hell. Life is never fun when you feel like you are in a Kafka novel.

I know less about the technical aspects of these things than Luke and many others on here, but it seems a shame to me if the links are part of the problem. IMO, the links are a very helpful part of the site - such as on the DAC page, the Walt Disney Treasures Page, and the Disney Live Action pages, to name a few. You have, on one page, a thorough list featuring every title in each category, with a link to the UD/DVDizzy review - in some cases, links to multiple reviews covering the different editions of the same title. And then you can click on the Amazon link to check availabity, which I find especially helpful for rare and OOP titles, at Amazon Marketplace.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask Google for an explanation of EXACTLY what needs to be fixed/changed, as they are the ones imposing the penalty. That way, he would know EXACTLY what to fix. After all, what if Luke spent a lot of time removing a lot of these links (since they are apparently, for some strange reason soooo wrong in someone's eyes) and the issue with Google was still there? Then the site wouldn't be as thorough to navagate, and yet the problem would persist. And I'm sure it would feel deflating to compromise your own work to meet some vague standards only to find out that they still aren't being met. So I TOTALLY understand why Luke feels like he deserves a more detailed explanation, before radically altering the site, and I agree with him.

For what it's worth, I never use Google anyway. When I learned how to use the internet at a college library in the mid 90's, Yahoo was the "search engine" I was taught, and that always worked fine for me - so being a creature of habit, I stuck with Yahoo when I need to "search". I had no idea Google was this powerful, and once again, Luke, I am really sorry to hear about this.

PS Edited to add - Nice post 2099net. You were posting at the same time I was, so I didn't see yours before I did mine. But I like what you say about how the links aren't doing anything "wrong", and how the site is rich with content.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:49 pm 
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Bugs Bunny represents Luke and the angry rear end hole is the cranky google guy

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/akAj-TWUq0E" frameborder="0"></iframe>

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:02 am 
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Hey I just saw this article on NBC...and the way I took it is this might explain why ud is having it's google issues...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43510168/ns ... _business/


Quote:
Google is about to receive the civil equivalent of a subpoena from the U.S. Federal Trade Commission as part of a probe into the Web giant's Internet search business, the Wall Street Journal reported on Thursday, citing people familiar with the matter.
The company, which dominates the U.S. and global markets for search advertising, has been accused by competitors of favoring its own services over rivals in its search results.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:30 pm 
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Even though I don't post on this forum as much as I used to, I still check here for updates almost every day.

So to see this site and forum go would be really REALLY sad. :(

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:19 pm 
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If you search for ultimatedisney.com you DO NOT get this site at all.

If you search for dvdizzy.com you DO get this site. I know because I just did it.

Have you ever tried to contact Disney themselves about this? There have been offical Disney reps at this site so they obviously know it exists. In fact we know they have used this site ofr info. Perhaps you could join their family of sites?

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